Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[glasgowspur]

Sorry, Glasgow - thats a cop-out.
This group got to the Champions League Final for goodness sake and finished third in the league and has had £100m + pumped into it and now its in decline?

And that's not overachieving for us?
Did anyone on here at the of last season expect to do one nevermind both of those?

Also which player is as good nevermind better than they were 18 months ago?

 

[parklane1]

Such an important time for the club, and as we all sit in that wonderful stadium and enjoy the superb facilities, time to remember who helped make it and why he deserves our patience...

Who was it said fans are fickle mate you have been around long enough to know that. This is the first season that we seem to have gone a little backwards under Poch ( or at least that seems to be the opinion of a lot of fans), i think he has done enough over the previous season to be given some slack but alas it seems to me that whoever said fans were fickle was bang on the money.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I think Poch has accepted that some of our players are not up to the standards they have played at previously, Toby's legs appear to have gone and he is getting caught out of position far more then he used to be. Rose is just not up to it anymore and seeing as we have been unable to sell him on ( despite him making noises about want to go elsewhere for at least a year) i am not really surprised that there seems to have been very little interest in him from other clubs.

Then play Sanchez and Davies, both are fit, committed and have the quality to do well.

This is not a major problem for him to deal with, its self inflicted.

He has been forced to play a player ( Winks) at the base of midfield because of the problems Dier has suffered over the last several months. Winks is not good enough to play there and ( imo) his game has suffered and he has become a target for some fans. Dele has not looked the player he was a season or two back and when he has played looked a shadow of his old self ( the big question is can he recover his form and i am sure that is a concern for Poch.

He has not been forced to play a diamond. Which means he has not been forced to play Winks at the base. These are choices he has made, choices he could easily change.

The RB position is a major concern, Foyth getting injured was a blow and Aurier seems to have made a mess of trying to make that job his own. Now we also have injurys to our new signings and although Ndembele looks the dogs gonad*s he still needs time to adjust his game here.

RB is an utter fudging mess, absolutely no doubt. Though I do question why KWP isnt being given a run. Even if he isnt deemed top quality there, he is better than Sanchez (WTF?!) and more reliable than Aurier.

While its a mess, it doesnt need to be the absolute disaster it currently is.

Who was it said fans are fickle mate you have been around long enough to know that. This is the first season that we seem to have gone a little backwards under Poch ( or at least that seems to be the opinion of a lot of fans), i think he has done enough over the previous season to be given some slack but alas it seems to me that whoever said fans were fickle was bang on the money.

I think its a rather boring, and clumsy approach to take, "Oh fans a fickle lets just call them out".

It is my genuine belief the fans would be much more onside with Poch if it looked like he knew what he was doing, or at the very least looked like he was making moves to correct things.

While I do agree he deserves the chance to put things right, I also think that chance needs to be earned in action today.

Poch said it himself Tuesday night, football is about today, and tomorrow - not yesterday. IE - its about what you do now and where youre heading, not what you did in the past.

Patience for the sake of patience has no virtue.

 

[glasgowspur]

I dont think he is sulking either, but its a persistent theme on here - so Im making the logical conclusion if it were to be accepted as true.

I also dont think the squad is in decline. In need of refreshing, sure. And in need of clearing some out, sure. But decline? Not for me.

There is much better football in this group of players than we are seeing this season.


If I had to pin my colours to any particular theory, it would be that Poch is burned out. Simply over cooked, frazzled, in need of a break.

I think his drop in performance, mixed messages, odd decisions etc - all speak to someone trying to do their best but simply not having it in them.

Thats speculation, of course, but from where I sit he is absolutely failing to do basic things - things we know he is more than capable of - and this is the only way it makes sense to me.

The sulk is a lazy argument imho. We are struggling and people are looking for a cat to kick, it's understandable.
Poch is top of the tree so he's top of the list, also understandable.
If he wants the job and believes he can turn it around and the club support him then in my opinion he is the man for the job. That could be a longer road than some realise.

If he wants out he should go, and like eriksen I don't think it has anything to do with money.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

If he wants out he should go, and like eriksen I don't think it has anything to do with money.

Perhaps not money as in - personal wealth - but potentially resources? If he dropped us today and popped up at Real next week, would you be surprised?

I wouldnt be, I suspect theyve been having words with him over the months...

 

[glasgowspur]

Then play Sanchez and Davies, both are fit, committed and have the quality to do well.

This is not a major problem for him to deal with, its self inflicted.



He has not been forced to play a diamond. Which means he has not been forced to play Winks at the base. These are choices he has made, choices he could easily change.




RB is an utter fudging mess, absolutely no doubt. Though I do question why KWP isnt being given a run. Even if he isnt deemed top quality there, he is better than Sanchez (WTF?!) and more reliable than Aurier.

While its a mess, it doesnt need to be the absolute disaster it currently is.




I think its a rather boring, and clumsy approach to take, "Oh fans a fickle lets just call them out".

It is my genuine belief the fans would be much more onside with Poch if it looked like he knew what he was doing, or at the very least looked like he was making moves to correct things.

While I do agree he deserves the chance to put things right, I also think that chance needs to be earned in action today.

Poch said it himself Tuesday night, football is about today, and tomorrow - not yesterday. IE - its about what you do now and where youre heading, not what you did in the past.

Patience for the sake of patience has no virtue.

Only thing I can argue with there is Sanchez at RB, it didn't work to well before and I think Bayern would have slaughter him.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Only thing I can argue with there is Sanchez at RB, it didn't work to well before and I think Bayern would have slaughter him.

I wasnt promoting Sanchez as RB - poorly worded by me possibly. I was saying KWP = More reliable than Aurier, KWP = Better at/as a RB than Sanchez

 

[glasgowspur]

Perhaps not money as in - personal wealth - but potentially resources? If he dropped us today and popped up at Real next week, would you be surprised?

I wouldnt be, I suspect theyve been having words with him over the months...

I would be mildly surprised, mainly because as you have alluded to he looks drained.
If he went at Christmas and turned somewhere else in June then no.

 

[glasgowspur]

I wasnt promoting Sanchez as RB - poorly worded by me possibly. I was saying KWP = More reliable than Aurier, KWP = Better at/as a RB than Sanchez

Sorry, I probably misread it.
It does highlight my point though, key positions don't have the required quality. We got away with it it it's caught up with us.

 

[parklane1]

Then play Sanchez and Davies, both are fit, committed and have the quality to do well.

This is not a major problem for him to deal with, its self inflicted.



He has not been forced to play a diamond. Which means he has not been forced to play Winks at the base. These are choices he has made, choices he could easily change.




RB is an utter fudging mess, absolutely no doubt. Though I do question why KWP isnt being given a run. Even if he isnt deemed top quality there, he is better than Sanchez (WTF?!) and more reliable than Aurier.

While its a mess, it doesnt need to be the absolute disaster it currently is.




I think its a rather boring, and clumsy approach to take, "Oh fans a fickle lets just call them out".

It is my genuine belief the fans would be much more onside with Poch if it looked like he knew what he was doing, or at the very least looked like he was making moves to correct things.

While I do agree he deserves the chance to put things right, I also think that chance needs to be earned in action today.

Poch said it himself Tuesday night, football is about today, and tomorrow - not yesterday. IE - its about what you do now and where youre heading, not what you did in the past.

Patience for the sake of patience has no virtue.

Firstly i have no doubt that Davies should be our number one LB and have thought that for a long time, however i am not the manager and there are many on here who have given Rose legend status.

He has decided to play a diamond and as a manger he jas the right to choose to do so ( reguardless of what you or i think about that decision) having done that and with Dier and Wanyama either unable or unfit to play there he has HAD to play Winks there.

And if your really believe that a large section of any teams fans are not fickle then i do not know what to say about that. As for patience well we all know some fans have none, some fans have a little and some fans have more then most ( virtue does not come into it)

 

[glasgowspur]

Firstly i have no doubt that Davies should be our number one LB and have thought that for a long time, however i am not the manager and there are many on here who have given Rose legend status.

He has decided to play a diamond and as a manger he jas the right to choose to do so ( reguardless of what you or i think about that decision) having done that and with Dier and Wanyama either unable or unfit to play there he has HAD to play Winks there.

And if your really believe that a large section of any teams fans are not fickle then i do not know what to say about that. As for patience well we all know some fans have none, some fans have a little and some fans have more then most ( virtue does not come into it)

I know this won't be popular but I never got the rose walker hype.
They were at the level the club needed under Harry, but the when sights were set higher I thought they weren't good enough. Walker has never been the best RB in the world as many have claimed.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Sorry, I probably misread it.
It does highlight my point though, key positions don't have the required quality. We got away with it it it's caught up with us.

When we break it down, right now RB need be our only problem position.

And thats assuming Poch cant work his FB Midas touch with KWP (tools are there, IMO, Im 50/50 if he would make it though).

The squad is under performing, and needs some moves, but its not full of holes and IMHO "decline" is a bit much.

Firstly i have no doubt that Davies should be our number one LB and have thought that for a long time, however i am not the manager and there are many on here who have given Rose legend status.

He has decided to play a diamond and as a manger he jas the right to choose to do so ( reguardless of what you or i think about that decision) having done that and with Dier and Wanyama either unable or unfit to play there he has HAD to play Winks there.

And if your really believe that a large section of any teams fans are not fickle then i do not know what to say about that. As for patience well we all know some fans have none, some fans have a little and some fans have more then most ( virtue does not come into it)

Right. So the manager makes decisions - glad we agree.

Do you see now when you post things like "He has been forced to play a player ( Winks) at the base of midfield..." Thats actually incorrect?

He hasnt been forced to do anything. He has chosen to. And THAT offers a very different perspective on things, doesnt it?


Every club has fickle fans. I dont deny. My issue is in your blanket brandishing of a fanbase as fickle. Its strawman nonsense.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I know this won't be popular but I never got the rose walker hype.
They were at the level the club needed under Harry, but the when sights were set higher I thought they weren't good enough. Walker has never been the best RB in the world as many have claimed.

100% agreed.

Good, not great. VASTLY over rated.

 

[StephenH]

And that's not overachieving for us?
Did anyone on here at the of last season expect to do one nevermind both of those?

Also which player is as good nevermind better than they were 18 months ago?

We at some point have show some faith in ourselves because no other bugger will.
We made a total Horlicks on Tuesday and some should be getting a good telling!
I'm fed up with our limp attitude we show toward defeats! Poch usually says ”we were the better team” or some such other gonad*s!
Looking after players and there form and fitness is when Poch earns his corn and if he wants to end up running a Real or the like he must get his act together!

 

[Bishop]

When we break it down, right now RB need be our only problem position.

And thats assuming Poch cant work his FB Midas touch with KWP (tools are there, IMO, Im 50/50 if he would make it though).

The squad is under performing, and needs some moves, but its not full of holes and IMHO "decline" is a bit much.





Right. So the manager makes decisions - glad we agree.

Do you see now when you post things like "He has been forced to play a player ( Winks) at the base of midfield..." Thats actually incorrect?

He hasnt been forced to do anything. He has chosen to. And THAT offers a very different perspective on things, doesnt it?


Every club has fickle fans. I dont deny. My issue is in your blanket brandishing of a fanbase as fickle. Its strawman nonsense.

CM is still a problem until proven otherwise. Ndombele looks the business but Sissoko and Winks as the other components are not good enough at the roles they are being tasked with. Lo Celso may well be the missing link but until we see him in that role then it's far from fixed and is currently the biggest problem area for this team (as per usual).

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Fapatalk

 

[Raziel]

I think Poch has accepted that some of our players are not up to the standards they have played at previously, Toby's legs appear to have gone and he is getting caught out of position far more then he used to be. Rose is just not up to it anymore and seeing as we have been unable to sell him on ( despite him making noises about want to go elsewhere for at least a year) i am not really surprised that there seems to have been very little interest in him from other clubs.

He has been forced to play a player ( Winks) at the base of midfield because of the problems Dier has suffered over the last several months. Winks is not good enough to play there and ( imo) his game has suffered and he has become a target for some fans. Dele has not looked the player he was a season or two back and when he has played looked a shadow of his old self ( the big question is can he recover his form and i am sure that is a concern for Poch.

The RB position is a major concern, Foyth getting injured was a blow and Aurier seems to have made a mess of trying to make that job his own. Now we also have injurys to our new signings and although Ndembele looks the dogs gonad*s he still needs time to adjust his game here.

Can he turn it round? well i still believe he can and i would be amazed if he is not here at the end of the season but who knows.

I admire the optimism and hope you are correct, history suggests otherwise, I can't recall a team recovering after that kind of beating at home.

Unfortunately the path is well travelled, we will likely have a reaction on week-end (player's pride), we will revert to fluctuating results until the next really bad result or two ends it.

At this point I'm amazed he's here now, end of season would be an amazing achievement from here.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

https://www.thefightingrooster.co.uk/2019/10/under-the-lights/

Im stood on a mound of earth. It’s slippery, the rain is falling around me and the waters of #PochOut are creeping towards my sodden feet. I feel I should just surrender, I feel I should stand firm. Am I an Outy am I an Iny? Do I want his chubby face gone? Do I want to grab him and say “stay you wonderful little man?”

Herein lies the problem with Tottenham Hotspur 2019/2020.

We’re not one thing or the other. We’re neither In or Out. We’re great, then we’re a shambles. Our identity is so confused we could be Sammy Jankins, but we might be Leonard Shelby.

UNDER THE LIGHTS
As I stood with the rest of my block, watching the rain catch the floodlights and swirl down towards the lower rows of the south stand, I was proud. My Tottenham, our Tottenham were thrashing around the pitch, giving Bayern a taste of our football.

Intensity, pressure, top class levels of skill in a Tottenham shirt. Ndombele was insane, Dele was at his space obliterating best, Kane was a missile of intent and Son was snapping around like a puppy chasing a tennis ball.

We could’ve been clear. We could’ve been cruising, but we weren’t but it wasn’t a problem. We had our Tottenham back and Bayern would succumb to us eventually.

But we’re unable to sustain who we are for more than 30 minutes. Our football is a sandcastle and the half time whistle the sea. Had we kept the scores level at the break perhaps the game would’ve been different. Maybe they wouldn’t have made the change that ultimately unravelled us.

Bayern could see our weaknesses. Hit them wide, press the middle and expose the full backs.

Thiago came on to the pitch and set up shop on Harry Winks’ head. Coman, Gnabry and Perisic stayed so wide they had AstroTurf pellets on their boots. Throw in Poch’s bad decision making, sprinkle in a lack of fight/belief/hunger/passion and you produce a 2-7 defeat.

Embarrassing.

SO WHAT NOW?
As I shuffled across my block towards where my friend was sat, a journey made easier by each goal we conceded, I was done. Poch Out. Get him gone. A team that’s successful is said to be a representation of its manager, therefore what about a team getting spanked?

Losing football matches is a regular occurrence, but a capitulation is warning that something is fundamentally flawed. Pochettino’s usual fix to any football drama is to throw all the players at it, but this tactic is starting to age. As the game ticked by Poch had surrendered midfield and exposed our faulty fullbacks.

We were a chip pan on fire at 4-2 and he poured Evian into it. Our discipline went and the players became the ones in charge. It was upon their shoulders to win it; the manager was steering a car that had been launched off a cliff.

When the top teams are chasing a match, they stick to their methods. There might be a few tweaks but its controlled. They trust the system, our players don’t because there isn’t one. Lamela, Eriksen, Kane, Lucas and Son all on the pitch at the same time is a sign that he no longer has a plan.

I can forgive many things, but Poch’s lack of a plan or an idea of how we play is unforgivable. Sessengon doesn’t fix this and Lo Celso only adds another player for him to chuck at a problem.

Poch has to go, he must, if not for his benefit then ours. This isn’t me chasing him with a flaming torch, but it’s simply an acknowledgement to his problems.

He’s unable to create a team that plays to our strengths and protects our weaknesses. If your fullbacks are weak, protect them or change them. If your central defence is slow, protect them with a defensive shield or play a centre back with some legs like Sanchez.

As Arsenal continue to show, the Premier League is a forgiving place. You can have a bad day, but rely upon firepower. In Europe, things are different, sometimes they bring a gun to a knife fight. Yesterday we were wielding a Swizz Army knife, Bayern pulled a Glock .

I’m not ready to give up on this squad. There’s too much talent, but I’m ready to give up faith that Poch can rekindle it. The team is in need of a fresh approach, a resetting of the dials and a implementation of proper system.

It breaks my heart, but his time is now done.

SO WHAT NEXT?
Pain my friend. More of it.

Peace and love.


People may/may not agree with this, but it speaks to common themes coming out, doesnt it?

 

[glasgowspur]

When we break it down, right now RB need be our only problem position.

And thats assuming Poch cant work his FB Midas touch with KWP (tools are there, IMO, Im 50/50 if he would make it though).

The squad is under performing, and needs some moves, but its not full of holes and IMHO "decline" is a bit much.





Right. So the manager makes decisions - glad we agree.

Do you see now when you post things like "He has been forced to play a player ( Winks) at the base of midfield..." Thats actually incorrect?

He hasnt been forced to do anything. He has chosen to. And THAT offers a very different perspective on things, doesnt it?


Every club has fickle fans. I dont deny. My issue is in your blanket brandishing of a fanbase as fickle. Its strawman nonsense.

A very good RB and a fit dier or wanyama and I think we would be no worse than 3rd in the league and 2nd in CL group. That would buy us a season, season and a half to get ndom and GLC up to speed and move on and replace eriksen, Toby, rose, sissoko, aurier. All of whom at the minute are first team picks, think about and tell me that's not a team in decline.

 

[Bishop]

I wasnt promoting Sanchez as RB - poorly worded by me possibly. I was saying KWP = More reliable than Aurier, KWP = Better at/as a RB than Sanchez

Sanchez only played RB against arsenal because of injury otherwise I'm sure KWP would have played. Also in his absence you may be overrating KWP, he has himself had awful games. I honestly don't think any RB we have would have coped against Bayern. We would have needed Walkers recovery pace to cope. Trippier would have been toasted and KWP likely bamboozled. RB is not in a strong place.

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[parklane1]

.
Right. So the manager makes decisions - glad we agree.

Do you see now when you post things like "He has been forced to play a player ( Winks) at the base of midfield..." Thats actually incorrect?

He hasnt been forced to do anything. He has chosen to. And THAT offers a very different perspective on things, doesnt it?


Every club has fickle fans. I dont deny. My issue is in your blanket brandishing of a fanbase as fickle. Its strawman nonsense.

He choose to play a diamond right, he would have three players who could play there but 2 for whatever reasons are unable to play so he HAD one choice Winks so you are wrong and he was forced to play Winks because the other two were not able to.

As for the strawman gonad*s and me blanket brandishing all fans as fickle then you are really stretching the point. You disagree that is your choice but imo your opinions on this are wrong.