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Levy's Plan

Muttley said:
I can only really remember one season where we threw the towel in on how high we wanted to finish in the league. We obviously got a trophy because of it.

The glass ceiling line is now 5th to be fair because of the UEFA coefficients. When you get 5th, you get access to the CL monies.

What I'd be interested in is how our recent history could have been different. With current UEFA coefficients, Spurs had 6 seasons in this millennium where they finished 5th and would have been competing in the CL on today's rules. They have had 7 seasons where they finished 2nd to 4th and got CL anyway.

So think about the impact of that. Because we would have been in the CL 50% of the time (on today's rules) then we would have probably not finished 6th-8th so much in another 6 or 7 seasons. It would have been slightly higher because of the access to more revenues and therefore better players, especially before the stadium opened.

I know it is all conjecture but in some ways I have found the CL glass ceiling so frustrating.
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In 15 years time the talk will be about top 5 because like you say the qualifying line has been lowered again. But that obviously won't be accurate historically because top 5 in 2005 is very different to top 5 in 2025.
 
Bishop said:
In 15 years time the talk will be about top 5 because like you say the qualifying line has been lowered again. But that obviously won't be accurate historically because top 5 in 2005 is very different to top 5 in 2025.
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No one would deny that, but expectations change as the game changes.

Ultimately and historically we have never been a sustained great side league wise.

If in 61 after signing the best player in the world you would have said that title was our last, people would have a absolutely laughed. I know from talking to family and fans over the years they felt that
 
Bishop said:
Sigh. Yes again only since 99. Before 99 the FA Cup just about still had it's prestige.

You can't compare what win ing the FA Cup in say 1977 meant to what winning it in 2007 meant. Totally different contexts.
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Yes but you can compare winning the fa cup in the 70’s to getting top 4 in the 2000’s.
 
Feels like a lifetime ago that we went unbeaten at the old stadium… hopefully it’ll prove to be a case of short term pain leading to long term gain but sheesh!

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Jurgen the German said:
Of course it had something to do with Levy. He’s partly responsible when we succeed and when we fail.

I already mentioned previous eras where we achieved multiple top four finishes, and trophies.

The question you keep refusing to answer, are the league finishes 4th, 6th, 7th, 4th, 8th, 5th, 17th what progression looks like? Should Levy have had a lifetime pass because he improved upon his predecessor?

I don’t think there’s any question that we went backwards since Poch left from a football standpoint but you clearly disagree. Finishing outside of the top 4 more frequently than we finished inside it including a 17th place finish is clearly an improvement on what Poch (and Levy) had achieved previously.
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But this is the bit I don’t really get — why do you think Levy would have turned it around?

I mean, genuinely, what evidence is there for that? We’d already spent years watching the football side of the club regress under Levy. The fact that we had some very good league finishes during that period doesn’t necessarily mean he was the man to reverse the decline.

You think Levy made good football decisions?

Because I certainly don’t. There were plenty of questionable appointments, recruitment decisions and general football strategy under his watch. So I’m not sure why we should assume that, had he stayed, suddenly he would have got everything right and had us competing again.

And I’m not saying the current lot deserve blind faith either. They’ve made some questionable decisions and, as you say, there’s plenty of risk attached to what they’re doing. Backing a manager who is still unproven at this level is obviously a gamble.

But I’d rather judge that on what actually happens than romanticise the idea that Levy was inevitably going to turn it around.

For me, that’s the bigger question: what makes you so confident Levy would have fixed it? Because if the argument is simply that he’d done it before, I’m not sure that stacks up given how the second half of his tenure went.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Fine but when you’re telling the players they can’t have more money whilst you’re the highest paid director in the league…it’s not a good look. Especially when we didn’t ever have the best team nor have the trophies to back up Levy’s salary.
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So if he took a dividend in the profit that’s ok as we didn’t win a trophy?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
So if he took a dividend in the profit that’s ok as we didn’t win a trophy?
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Not sure why you’re focusing so much on dividends. We were talking about salaries — specifically how we either don’t, or never did, make our players among the highest-paid in the league, despite having arguably the best striker and one of the best wingers/forwards around.

And all the while, Levy was taking one of the highest — if not the highest — director salaries in the league.

That’s the point being made. The issue isn’t dividends; it’s the disparity between what we were willing to pay the players who actually put the points on the board and what was being paid at board level.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Not sure why you’re focusing so much on dividends. We were talking about salaries — specifically how we either don’t, or never did, make our players among the highest-paid in the league, despite having arguably the best striker and one of the best wingers/forwards around.

And all the while, Levy was taking one of the highest — if not the highest — director salaries in the league.

That’s the point being made. The issue isn’t dividends; it’s the disparity between what we were willing to pay the players who actually put the points on the board and what was being paid at board level.
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He owned a significant stake in the company
He could have just taken a dividend as normal
Would have been more hidden in the books and IMO people would complain less
 
SteveAWOL said:
Feels like a lifetime ago that we went unbeaten at the old stadium… hopefully it’ll prove to be a case of short term pain leading to long term gain but sheesh!

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yeah opposition fans are calling it three-point lane now :(
 
Bedfordspurs said:
He owned a significant stake in the company
He could have just taken a dividend as normal
Would have been more hidden in the books and IMO people would complain less
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Ok but we were talking specifically about salaries. When we’ve missed out on players because of wages, can you not see why people want to mention Levy’s high salary and highlight the discrepancy between what he earns and what our players earn relatively speaking?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Ok but we were talking specifically about salaries. When we’ve missed out on players because of wages, can you not see why people want to mention Levy’s high salary and highlight the discrepancy between what he earns and what our players earn relatively speaking?
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The part that is most forgotten is how Levy turned his £30m original investment to somewhere between £500m and a billion. My house has doubled in value in the 22 years I've owned it (with mortgage). Levy's house has undergone tornado growth due to the football marketplace. He was in as all those new revenue streams like Sky as football became a money train. There is no salary or dividend that comes close to the equity he's built in the THFC brand.

Daniel will eventually walk away with his vast fortune that has been paid for by consumers buying their TV subscriptions and the fans buying their season tickets. He is a smart guy who rode the train very well so we shouldn't feel that sorry for him. For some fans, they would be happy that he deserved it after the work he did on the training facilities, stadiums and his art of growing our revenues constantly. For others, they would have wanted all of that but better output on the pitch. Some of the football operations management by Levy was incredibly underwhelming.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Ok but we were talking specifically about salaries. When we’ve missed out on players because of wages, can you not see why people want to mention Levy’s high salary and highlight the discrepancy between what he earns and what our players earn relatively speaking?
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And I’ve said would you be happy with him taking a lower salary and his income another way
It’s all relative
 
Jurgen the German said:
Fine but when you’re telling the players they can’t have more money whilst you’re the highest paid director in the league…it’s not a good look. Especially when we didn’t ever have the best team nor have the trophies to back up Levy’s salary.
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What was Levy's salary? £3 million is equivalent to £60k a week, so he'd be far from highest paid at the club. In business it's more normal for the people running the business to be on the highest salaries. The same argument could be made for the managers being underpaid.

On the other hand, compared to his peers he has run a club that is underperforming on the football field. Yet, and I'm running out of hands, he was successful at the business level, growing revenues and making profits.
 
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