Levy's Plan

[billyiddo]

I just find the idea that ‘now we have a settled transfer department’ to be the reason that we can suddenly move in the market in a way that suggests we want to win the league to be completely flimsy. That’s a reason that our signings will match a consistent profile in line with our tactical plan. It’s not a reason why we can be more aggressive regarding finances.

I don’t think you’re BSing, it just feels like you don’t want to acknowledge that things might be different. And I can only assume that’s because you want to stay true to this idea that it’s been the plan all along.

I’ll ask again - if it comes out that we’ve gotten a mega sponsorship deal or some additional investment, and we end the window with more proven PL signings, would you acknowledge that it might have been some pleasant deviation from the norm?

A club that wants to win the league doesn’t fail to land Moutinho, or Dybala, or any of the other ridiculous sagas we have had where the deal was just a bit too difficult to get over the line. We will probably also never know all of the players we might have been in for that went to more ambitious clubs first. If we’re now the ones moving more aggressive in the market, or at least to the same level as the other contending clubs, I’d say that’s a difference.

Maybe you've misread a bit but I'm talking specifically post Paratichi wrt to what's being discussed re plan - this is when post-stadium money was coming in, COVID was behind us and when we started making moves to address the poor squad building of the previous era. There was talk of an internal review preceding this point which I see as the catalyst for us starting to put in place a proper big club structure between the head coach and Levy/Club Directors. This is the point from which the club began to grow up - what came before isn't really worth focusing on imv as it's a different era where we were at a considerable disadvantage, self imposed or otherwise, so Moutinho/Dybala etc is not something I'm going to bother explaining away as it bares no relation to the club as it is today.

If big time outside investment comes in then that renders the discussion moot really - i don't really know how these things work but would the club not have to announce something of that sort of scale? I don't think if we had that money in place already it could have gone by unnoticed so you then have to assume that nothing has yet happened - you then have to assume that we aren't spending money that isn't already forecast eg we're only spending what would orinarily be available. It would be rather sketchy to be spending money that's on a promise - if something fell through then you're in for a bit of trouble.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Maybe you've misread a bit but I'm talking specifically post Paratichi wrt to what's being discussed re plan - this is when post-stadium money was coming in, COVID was behind us and when we started making moves to address the poor squad building of the previous era. There was talk of an internal review preceding this point which I see as the catalyst for us starting to put in place a proper big club structure between the head coach and Levy/Club Directors. This is the point from which the club began to grow up - what came before isn't really worth focusing on imv as it's a different era where we were at a considerable disadvantage, self imposed or otherwise, so Moutinho/Dybala etc is not something I'm going to bother explaining away as it bares no relation to the club as it is today.

If big time outside investment comes in then that renders the discussion moot really - i don't really know how these things work but would the club not have to announce something of that sort of scale? I don't think if we had that money in place already it could have gone by unnoticed so you then have to assume that nothing has yet happened - you then have to assume that we aren't spending money that isn't already forecast eg what we wpuld orinarily have available, it would be rather sketchy to be spending money that's on a promise - if something fell through then you're in for a bit of trouble.

Fair enough. I don’t disagree that on their own, Kudus and MGW match the profile of player we have signed post Paratici joining initially. Richarlison, Romero, Solanke etc. Proven either in the PL or starters for top international sides. Through that timeframe, I agree, it’s yet to be seen whether this summer is different.

I’d be interested in how this looks in September. If we get 2 more at that level, and a couple of strong squad additions, I think it’s a different summer. If we don’t, then it hasn’t been that different. Let’s see.

 

[SpurMeUp]

TBF I think Jesus and Zichenko were poor buys IMO
MGW and Kudus are first team starter players… Bergvall, gray, Sarr, Philips, tel, Odobert, Vuskovic maybe Johnson too were all brought for their potential
That’s a gamble but one I’d back every day
I think after MGW we will sign another senior player and that may well be it for the window, but it would be a bloody good one IMO
And just to add Danso was brought as first team IMO. He can start without a clear decline in experience and quality
We need to be smart now with our Romanian man mountain and see if he is actually a good fit (we saw him have some very good games and some poor ones)

Tbf to Dragusin he’s only 23. He’s a bit rash sometimes. But you see enough of his ability. Think he could be a very steady pragmatic defender once he feels at home.

I don’t envy Frank. Maybe the hardest part of his job is choosing between formations and players. At Brentford his pallet is limited - actually making it simpler to design the setup and system. With limited players and ability it’s easier to find a system that is optimal. With us, we have the players to setup with 3 at the back or a back 4. And in attack we have plenty of options too.

If we just add MGW and Kudus, and retain Romero, would you go for a 3 or 4 at the back?

 

[thfcsteff]

Fair enough. I don’t disagree that on their own, Kudus and MGW match the profile of player we have signed post Paratici joining initially. Richarlison, Romero, Solanke etc. Proven either in the PL or starters for top international sides. Through that timeframe, I agree, it’s yet to be seen whether this summer is different.

I’d be interested in how this looks in September. If we get 2 more at that level, and a couple of strong squad additions, I think it’s a different summer. If we don’t, then it hasn’t been that different. Let’s see.

Providing MGW goes through, we will have spent more money by the end of July than I ever remember. It would be our biggest single-window spend before a significant sale. It would also represent the first time we would have genuine top level rotation in several key areas. If we further go on to get a DM/6, that would be enormously decisive.

We will obviously sell -we have to for squad arrangements alone- but we are operating a little differently in my view, and VV is the driver of that (obviously with Levy's blessing)...

 

[thfcsteff]

Tbf to Dragusin he’s only 23. He’s a bit rash sometimes. But you see enough of his ability. Think he could be a very steady pragmatic defender once he feels at home.

I don’t envy Frank. Maybe the hardest part of his job is choosing between formations and players. At Brentford his pallet is limited - actually making it simpler to design the setup and system. With limited players and ability it’s easier to find a system that is optimal. With us, we have the players to setup with 3 at the back or a back 4. And in attack we have plenty of options too.

If we just add MGW and Kudus, and retain Romero, would you go for a 3 or 4 at the back?

I think 4-2-3-1 would be ideal. 3-5-2 is also on the cards in some situations. We'll be able to switch systems within games easily.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Providing MGW goes through, we will have spent more money by the end of July than I ever remember. It would be our biggest single-window spend before a significant sale. It would also represent the first time we would have genuine top level rotation in several key areas. If we further go on to get a DM/6, that would be enormously decisive.

We will obviously sell -we have to for squad arrangements alone- but we are operating a little differently in my view, and VV is the driver of that (obviously with Levy's blessing)...

Yeah, I mean obviously I agree. The fact that West Ham were a motivated seller on Kudus has never stopped us trying to drive the price down as much as possible even if it means we’re into the dying days of the window. The fact that it got done quickly suggests to me that something is probably different too. Equally though we paid a fair old whack for Richarlison with a similarly motivated seller at a similar point in the window, so I’m willing to see. MGW in quick succession after Kudus would make it a different feeling for me for sure though. As you say, we’ve never spent so much so quickly.

Overall I’m willing to wait until September, to see how this all plays out. At the end of the window, we’ll all have a pretty good sense of whether we’re equipping ourselves to win the league in the next couple of years, or not.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yeah, I mean obviously I agree. The fact that West Ham were a motivated seller on Kudus has never stopped us trying to drive the price down as much as possible even if it means we’re into the dying days of the window. The fact that it got done quickly suggests to me that something is probably different too. Equally though we paid a fair old whack for Richarlison with a similarly motivated seller at a similar point in the window, so I’m willing to see. MGW in quick succession after Kudus would make it a different feeling for me for sure though. As you say, we’ve never spent so much so quickly.

Overall I’m willing to wait until September, to see how this all plays out. At the end of the window, we’ll all have a pretty good sense of whether we’re equipping ourselves to win the league in the next couple of years, or not.

We know it's different. Vini is ceo. We have cl this season. We were one place off relegation last season. We have a new manager.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

We know it's different. Vini is ceo. We have cl this season. We were one place off relegation last season. We have a new manager.

When I say ‘different’, I’m not literally pointing to which things are different this year versus last. I’m talking about our position in the market hierarchy previously, and what it might take to genuinely compete for the league title. I think our position in the market would need to change. We’d need to act quicker, more decisively, sign more proven first 11 players rather than potential etc.

Previously we’ve maybe signed one big player (what would now be a 50m+ player) per summer, we’ve had a relatively balanced net spend, and by and large the weight of signings has skewed potential rather than proven. We’ve also tended to finish business quite late, although arguably we’re getting better at that.

That’s what I mean when I say different. Are we in the mix for the same players that the other contending clubs are trying to sign. Can we get our first choice targets? Can we get enough of them that we have a first 11 that can beat anyone and a squad that means we should not suffer for being in four competitions? Or are we letting the top clubs get their first choices while we bargain hunt and pick up the best of the rest once they’ve finished their business?

 

[thfcsteff]

We know it's different. Vini is ceo. We have cl this season. We were one place off relegation last season. We have a new manager.

So you do agree with BoL? See, it wasn't that hard was it!

 

[Lilbaz]

So you do agree with BoL? See, it wasn't that hard was it!

Yeah 2 summers ago it was different too. Munn was in charge of football, ange had just started as manager and we brought in johnson, maddison, vdv, philips, veliz, solomon, vicario. Made permanent porro and kulu.
Every season is different.

 

[thfcsteff]

Yeah 2 summers ago it was different too. Munn was in charge of football, ange had just started as manager and we brought in johnson, maddison, vdv, philips, veliz, solomon, vicario. Made permanent porro and kulu.
Every season is different.

Ahhhhh philosophical thought...yes...and tomorrow will be different to today. The day after that will be different to tomorrow. Etc, etc...

...do you disagree that things currently seem to be moving with a greatly invigorated sense of purpose, energy and impetus?

 

[Lilbaz]

Ahhhhh philosophical thought...yes...and tomorrow will be different to today. The day after that will be different to tomorrow. Etc, etc...

...do you disagree that things currently seem to be moving with a greatly invigorated sense of purpose, energy and impetus?

We signed vicario and maddison in june that year. So not really.