Levy's Plan

[Baleforce]

It didn't need to be, that's just the path they took or how the path unfolded- i don't understand why that is a sticking point for you? So what?

Paying a release clause is not bullying the market and negotiating a cut price transfer due to the selling club being in financial difficulty is nothing new to Levy is it mate

We also bought VDV & Vicario alongside Madds & Johnson - 4 first team signings in one window
Kulu + Bentancur in a Jan window
Richy + Bissouma + Romero
Ndombele + GLC

You're talking like we've just been buying kids and the odd first team signing to supplement it - that just hasn't been the case. Last summer was an aberration in that sense - not the norm and even then we were in the market for more established players too (Neto/Calafori)

I see what you did.

Or, great minds think alike.

 

[Craig_J]

But again, we’ve never signed two big players like this in such a quick timeframe. We have signed players of this price range before, but never more than one in the same window. MGW and Kudus this quickly at the start of the window with promise of more to come is absolutely not more of the same pattern.

And again, I’m still not sure why we would stockpile potential in the first place, rather than go for more proven quality last year, or the year before? Unless, the will to spend more, or the money available, or the people with influence on the decisions has changed. If we wanted to make a push to win the league, why is it starting now?

Because Levy knows if he spends a few hundred million a year he doesn’t have to speak to the THST

 

[Baleforce]

Because Levy knows if he spends a few hundred million a year he doesn’t have to speak to the THST

If he spends one single a pound a year he still doesn't have to speak to those dipbricks.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It didn't need to be, that's just the path they took or how the path unfolded- i don't understand why that is a sticking point for you? So what?

Paying a release clause is not bullying the market and negotiating a cut price transfer due to the selling club being in financial difficulty is nothing new to Levy is it mate

We also bought VDV & Vicario alongside Madds & Johnson - 4 first team signings in one window
Kulu + Bentancur in a Jan window
Richy + Bissouma + Romero
Ndombele + GLC

You're talking like we've just been buying kids and the odd first team signing to supplement it - that just hasn't been the case. Last summer was an aberration in that sense - not the norm and even then we were in the market for more established players too (Neto/Calafori)

No I’m not talking like we’ve just been buying kids! That’s what you said! That we previously were signing younger players but now we can sign a couple of big players because that’s where we’ve gotten the squad to. My question has always been why? Why were we not signing the top players at the same clip, at the same speed, previously? Why did we have to follow the ‘more young players first’ sequence? It’s either money, will to compete, or different people influencing the approach.

I’ve acknowledged we’ve signed players of a similar profile before. I’m talking about the time in the window they’ve been signed, the fact that two came relatively quickly, and that there likely is still more to come.

To be clear I’m absolutely NOT saying that we’ve not signed players for the first team before. Again, it’s the timing of the window, the profile of the signings, the likelihood that there is more to come. Alongside leadership shake up. It feels like it’s something different.

Richarlison and Romero did not sign in the same year. Signing Kulusevski and Bentancur was great but they were unwanted by their club, it’s not remotely the same context.

Are you seriously suggesting that Levy hasn’t been known to drag deals out for way longer than necessary? To try and get players for under the release clause? Or to drag a deal until the end of the window to in order to squeeze a struggling selling club even more? Or how about trying to squeeze Villa on Grealish and then just losing the opportunity? Maybe we do have a bit more money now with the stadium, but the speed in which we’re moving this year for higher end players is different.

It is absolutely undeniable that Levy has spent a long time negotiating previously. Where as now the club, at least in this window, is moving quickly. This is my point around ‘bullying’. Especially if more players get signed that costs tens of millions each. Especially if they are proven in this league and in the first 11 of their selling club.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

reputation wise, is this any different to Solanke and Odobert, Johnson and Maddison, Lo Celso and Ndombele?

it's certainly not as big as Richi and Romero, and I would argue (maybe only me), Werner

the fees are big due to the market, but its a player who had a tough year in a team fighting relegation and an AM who had a great year, but in a club more used to being in the Championship

these are exactly the type of player we have targeted in ENIC's tenure

To be clear, I am absolutely not denying that we have signed this profile of player in the past. Of course we have! I’m talking about the speed to conclude the deals, the rate of the deals, and the likelihood that there will be more deals because we are at the start of the window.

I would say the two signings so far are similar to Maddison and Johnson. But one from a relegated side and Johnson of two years ago…I think MGW and Kudus are a bit more of a statement of intent. But I agree they are close. (I would also say that summer we lose Kane, so we’re going to be doing something).

I would absolutely not say that the profile of Kudus and MGW is remotely similar to Odobert, Lo Celso or N’Dombele. Because they were not proven in the PL and key players in the first 11 of PL clubs. Simple as that.

 

[Craig_J]

In all seriousness it could just be he feels more comfortable with our stadium situation in either a financial way or even feels enough time has passed since Covid that he feels we can spend more now

Or it’s just a one off thing this season to ensure we don’t finish so low again. ENIC did put £150m in under Conte so it has happened once before.

I do personally feel that we felt threatened by the takeover of Saudi Sportswashing Machine because it made it a 7 team squeeze for 5 CL slots

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It didn't need to be, that's just the path they took or how the path unfolded- i don't understand why that is a sticking point for you? So what?

Paying a release clause is not bullying the market and negotiating a cut price transfer due to the selling club being in financial difficulty is nothing new to Levy is it mate

We also bought VDV & Vicario alongside Madds & Johnson - 4 first team signings in one window
Kulu + Bentancur in a Jan window
Richy + Bissouma + Romero
Ndombele + GLC

You're talking like we've just been buying kids and the odd first team signing to supplement it - that just hasn't been the case. Last summer was an aberration in that sense - not the norm and even then we were in the market for more established players too (Neto/Calafori)

Btw, the point I am getting at, why it is a ‘sticking point’, is because we absolutely haven’t demonstrated the ambition to try and win the league with how we’ve approached the market previously. You seem to look upon that fact as if Levy had no other option - ‘that’s just the way it unfolded’. I am saying that different owners, or more money, or different decision making on how to use that money, would have meant we made different decisions.

There is a chance that we get to the end of this window and we look at the squad and we can legitimately say ‘wow, Levy said he wanted to win the PL and CL, and then the club built a squad to realistically achieve that in the next couple of years.’

This is what I am getting at. We can be the club that wants to wait for Gray and Bergval to hit their prime 5 years from now, or we can be the club that wants to win the biggest trophies in the next 1-2. You seem to be suggesting we had absolutely no choice but to act like the former, and I’m saying I want to see us acting like the latter. And there’s a chance we get to the end of this window and we will have acted like the latter. I’d be delighted if we have.

If on the other hand we get to the end, and the only other signings are a 22 year old from an upper mid table German team to play centre mid, and someone from France who we hope can compete with Udogie…then I’d say it’s been a similar window to most others. So let’s see in September.

 

[Baleforce]

To be clear, I am absolutely not denying that we have signed this profile of player in the past. Of course we have! I’m talking about the speed to conclude the deals, the rate of the deals, and the likelihood that there will be more deals because we are at the start of the window.

I would say the two signings so far are similar to Maddison and Johnson. But one from a relegated side and Johnson of two years ago…I think MGW and Kudus are a bit more of a statement of intent. But I agree they are close. (I would also say that summer we lose Kane, so we’re going to be doing something).

I would absolutely not say that the profile of Kudus and MGW is remotely similar to Odobert, Lo Celso or N’Dombele. Because they were not proven in the PL and key players in the first 11 of PL clubs. Simple as that.

I think Kudus and Odobert were very close stats wise in their previous seasons to signing, close in appearances and goals, both for dogbrick teams at the bottom of the PL table.

MGW has potential, but Ndombele and Lo Celso were huge signings at the time.

I don’t put much stock in the timing, likely more coincidence than anything else.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think Kudus and Odobert were very close stats wise in their previous seasons to signing, close in appearances and goals, both for dogbrick teams at the bottom of the PL table.

MGW has potential, but Ndombele and Lo Celso were huge signings at the time.

I don’t put much stock in the timing, likely more coincidence than anything else.

For me, Odobert is a ‘potential’ signing. I love him, I think he could be great. But he’s potential. Kudus we are taking from a PL team’s first 11. He’s proven.

Same for MGW. He has potential but he’s already pretty strong, and crucially proven in this league which also Lo Celso and Tanguay weren’t.

If you disagree, fair enough, happy to agree to disagree on both of these.

 

[Lilbaz]

For me, Odobert is a ‘potential’ signing. I love him, I think he could be great. But he’s potential. Kudus we are taking from a PL team’s first 11. He’s proven.

Same for MGW. He has potential but he’s already pretty strong, and crucially proven in this league which also Lo Celso and Tanguay weren’t.

If you disagree, fair enough, happy to agree to disagree on both of these.

Odobert was a starter for a prem team when we bought him.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Odobert was a starter for a prem team when we bought him.

Are we doing this?

He was a 19 year old starter for a relegated team. I’m so glad we have him, but he was not a ‘statement of intent’ signing that suggested we were going to push for something more this time around. He is an archetypal potential signing, and that’s fine.

My point was that so far we’ve started the window signing bona fide, proven, first 11 players from other PL sides. I’m sure we will continue to sign some potential, but if this window skews more ‘proven’ than potential, I think it’s fair to say that’s a different strategy in play.

Whether that’s new investment, new people, or frankly whether it’s exactly the same people making the decisions and they’ve changed up how they approach things, I won’t really care. I’m not in some camp one way or the other, I just want us to win the league. I feel like people are so reticent to admit that this summer might be different, because it would suggest that we could have done more earlier.

I really don’t care! Even if it’s simply the fact that we now have more confidence in our stadium revenue and we’re spending more, and that was always the plan, great! If we get to the end of this window, and we’ve signed multiple first 11 players that suggest we want to challenge for the league, I think it’s fair to suggest that ‘something’ different is afoot this summer, whatever that is. If we follow MGW and Kudus with a couple more signings from mid table continental sides that will have some sort of adaptation period, then yes it will be more of the same.

Why though is it so hard to concede that this window, given the way that it has started, *might* herald the start of a different way of doing things?

 

[Lilbaz]

Are we doing this?

He was a 19 year old starter for a relegated team. I’m so glad we have him, but he was not a ‘statement of intent’ signing that suggested we were going to push for something more this time around. He is an archetypal potential signing, and that’s fine.

My point was that so far we’ve started the window signing bona fide, proven, first 11 players from other PL sides. I’m sure we will continue to sign some potential, but if this window skews more ‘proven’ than potential, I think it’s fair to say that’s a different strategy in play.

Whether that’s new investment, new people, or frankly whether it’s exactly the same people making the decisions and they’ve changed up how they approach things, I won’t really care. I’m not in some camp one way or the other, I just want us to win the league. I feel like people are so reticent to admit that this summer might be different, because it would suggest that we could have done more earlier.

I really don’t care! Even if it’s simply the fact that we now have more confidence in our stadium revenue and we’re spending more, and that was always the plan, great! If we get to the end of this window, and we’ve signed multiple first 11 players that suggest we want to challenge for the league, I think it’s fair to suggest that ‘something’ different is afoot this summer, whatever that is. If we follow MGW and Kudus with a couple more signings from mid table continental sides that will have some sort of adaptation period, then yes it will be more of the same.

Why though is it so hard to concede that this window, given the way that it has started, *might* herald the start of a different way of doing things?

Hey we're all happy with mgw and kudus coming in. But odobert was a starter for a prem team where he played well. Yes he was younger and had less experience but he was a prem player.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Hey we're all happy with mgw and kudus coming in. But odobert was a starter for a prem team where he played well. Yes he was younger and had less experience but he was a prem player.

I’m not sure how else to say it…

I’ve said multiple times, I’m not denying that we’ve signed first team players. I’m also delighted we have Odobert.

But signing him is not proof that we are making a charge on the very biggest trophies. My entire point was that as a club we may be moving differently in the transfer market this summer compared to years past. We don’t know for sure, and we can revisit this in September,

I think what should be beyond debate though, is that Odobert is not a signing that would have suggested Spurs were going for the biggest trophies. He had not proven output at anything remotely approaching starting for a club at our level. He’s a level up from Gray and Bergval, but he is not MGW or Kudus level. I can’t believe that this is controversial to say.

 

[billyiddo]

Btw, the point I am getting at, why it is a ‘sticking point’, is because we absolutely haven’t demonstrated the ambition to try and win the league with how we’ve approached the market previously. You seem to look upon that fact as if Levy had no other option - ‘that’s just the way it unfolded’. I am saying that different owners, or more money, or different decision making on how to use that money, would have meant we made different decisions.

There is a chance that we get to the end of this window and we look at the squad and we can legitimately say ‘wow, Levy said he wanted to win the PL and CL, and then the club built a squad to realistically achieve that in the next couple of years.’

This is what I am getting at. We can be the club that wants to wait for Gray and Bergval to hit their prime 5 years from now, or we can be the club that wants to win the biggest trophies in the next 1-2. You seem to be suggesting we had absolutely no choice but to act like the former, and I’m saying I want to see us acting like the latter. And there’s a chance we get to the end of this window and we will have acted like the latter. I’d be delighted if we have.

If on the other hand we get to the end, and the only other signings are a 22 year old from an upper mid table German team to play centre mid, and someone from France who we hope can compete with Udogie…then I’d say it’s been a similar window to most others. So let’s see in September.

I don't think ive suggested that at all - I think they have had a plan and have tried best to action it year to year - that plan was to rebuild the squad top to bottom with a primary focus on players not yet at their peak with a view to getting back to the CL places. We might not like the plan or think it could have been actioned better than it has, but it was what the Club set out to do - so....?

I think within the framework of that plan we can, with our evidenced budget and extra draw off the back of EL win and CL qualification, make a better fist of getting our primary targets - we can sign Kudus & MGW rather than being gazumped on the likes of Neto & Gallagher etc this isn't a sign of outside investment it's a sign of our progression on/off the pitch starting to bare fruits.

I think if we get MGW and another first team improvement in it gives us a good chance of establishing ourselves in the CL spots above the likes of Saudi Sportswashing Machine & Chelsea and then next summer, within the plan and direction we are travelling, we could then have our own Rice transfer window where we go big on 1 or 2 players of genuine established quality to try and tip the balance to put us in the mix for the title.

That for me has always been the ultimate goal.

We have a form of continuity in the transfer department we have not really seen before, Lange is going in to his third season and looking comfortable in his position, Paratichi has been in and around the place since 2021 - from Arnesen to Baldini & Comoli and whoever else we have never had that and this, imv, is what has allowed the overall plan to stay it's course. They are the key decision makers with regards to squad building - Levy will just set the overall guidelines and budgets that they have to work within.

So while some might see our current position in the market as evidence of a sudden shift or outside influence, I think it’s actually just the result of something far more simple - continuity of the same key figures (Lange & Paratici) behind the scenes that have been steering the project forward within the parameters set by the club and us now being in a position of strength when going in to the market.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I don't think ive suggested that at all - I think they have had a plan and have tried best to action it year to year - that plan was to rebuild the squad top to bottom with a primary focus on players not yet at their peak with a view to getting back to the CL places. We might not like the plan or think it could have been actioned better than it has, but it was what the Club set out to do - so....?

I think within the framework of that plan we can, with our evidenced budget and extra draw off the back of EL win and CL qualification, make a better fist of getting our primary targets - we can sign Kudus & MGW rather than being gazumped on the likes of Neto & Gallagher etc this isn't a sign of outside investment it's a sign of our progression on/off the pitch starting to bare fruits.

I think if we get MGW and another first team improvement in it gives us a good chance of establishing ourselves in the CL spots above the likes of Saudi Sportswashing Machine & Chelsea and then next summer, within the plan and direction we are travelling, we could then have our own Rice transfer window where we go big on 1 or 2 players of genuine established quality to try and tip the balance to put us in the mix for the title.

That for me has always been the ultimate goal.

We have a form of continuity in the transfer department we have not really seen before, Lange is going in to his third season and looking comfortable in his position, Paratichi has been in and around the place since 2021 - from Arnesen to Baldini & Comoli and whoever else we have never had that and this, imv, is what has allowed the overall plan to stay it's course. They are the key decision makers with regards to squad building - Levy will just set the overall guidelines and budgets that they have to work within.

So while some might see our current position in the market as evidence of a sudden shift or outside influence, I think it’s actually just the result of something far more simple - continuity of the same key figures (Lange & Paratici) behind the scenes that have been steering the project forward within the parameters set by the club and us now being in a position of strength when going in to the market.

I’m honestly not trying to be deliberately obtuse, I just do not understand why the plan initially had to be to rebuild the squad with younger players first? If the goal was to eventually try and win the league, what makes summer 2025 so special as the right time to suddenly shift the gears?

I don’t think, relative to other teams, our strategy was that different since 2019 than it was prior. After the stadium we started probably signing a higher caliber of player, but relative to the clubs challenging the level above us, it was still by and large more potential than proven.

If this summer we sign multiple first 11 players already proven in this league, I think it’s fair to say that is something different. We have qualified for the CL multiple times before and haven’t acted like this as a club. And if that becomes the case, I find it hard to think that you can just say we’re carrying on as business as usual with the same MO. Something will have changed. If it comes out that there has been large investment, or a mega naming rights deal, what are you going to say then? We would have acted this way this summer even without that? Because it was always part of the plan?

 

[billyiddo]

I feel like I've repeatedly addressed those questions, it didn't need to happen that way, it just did and also feel I've repeatedly explained why I feel it played out that way. I don't see any value in continuing on repeating the same responses to questions only to keep having them fired back again.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think some of you convinced yourselves last summer (or during last season) that we were only ever going to be signing pure prospects moving forward — players like Gray, Bergvall, and Odobert. But that was never really the case. Yes, we leaned more toward that profile last summer, but doing so in one window didn’t mean it was going to become a permanent strategy.

A quick look at our business since Paratici came in shows that we’ve generally gone for a blend — not just raw teenagers, but also more developed younger players, typically aged 24/25 and under. There’s no fixed model beyond that, and our current targets seem to fit the same general mold.

We’ve spent a decent amount on transfers post-stadium, and this summer's activity fits in with that pattern. The squad is in a much better place overall, though we’re still a bit short of top-quality in a few starting positions. That’s clearly where the focus is now — strengthening the XI directly.

It was never realistic that we’d just keep stockpiling 17–21-year-olds without addressing the first team. If you look at our transfer activity over the past five years, it backs that up.

The model of 'young' signings was reinvigorated post-Conte and when the Munn/Lange/Postecoglu trio were brought in. To view at as a strict 'policy' outside that time is not wholly accurate. It is fair to say that Levy (and is has been Levy) always likes to try and sign top young specifically British talent/take a punt. Sometimes it works really well, sometimes it doesn't. But he has always dabbled. I think we're seeing the benefits of a CEO who is sussed and smart in Venkatesham (that is NO shade of Levy at all, much more a dig aimed at Munn). I do think VV is going to be the main face of Tottenham off the pitch going forward and that Daniel will be much more of a 'Lewis'type presence in terms of profile (again, profile not actions per se albeit I think he will take a bit of a backseat).

 

[thfcsteff]

It didn't need to be, that's just the path they took or how the path unfolded- i don't understand why that is a sticking point for you? So what?

Paying a release clause is not bullying the market and negotiating a cut price transfer due to the selling club being in financial difficulty is nothing new to Levy is it mate

We also bought VDV & Vicario alongside Madds & Johnson - 4 first team signings in one window
Kulu + Bentancur in a Jan window
Richy + Bissouma + Romero
Ndombele + GLC

You're talking like we've just been buying kids and the odd first team signing to supplement it - that just hasn't been the case. Last summer was an aberration in that sense - not the norm and even then we were in the market for more established players too (Neto/Calafori)

I think VDV, Vic, Maddison & Johnson were both essential and largely offset by the sale of Kane, so would consider that a different situation personally.

Tel + Kudus + MGW would be approximately 30m + 55m + 60m = 145 million.

Kulu and Bentancur were 8.3m 18 month load with ob to buy and 15.9 mill initially. We ended up paying 29.9 for Deki after that loan was up, and a further 5 for Bentancur. so, an initial 24.2m, which eventually added up to more

Richy was 50m with a further 10 in add-ons (so we'll say 60 - not sure if the add-ons were met), Biss was 25m, and Romero was 46m, so 131m

I cannot believe you are throwing in the debacle that was Ndombele and GLC signings (so much context to add, we've been there and done that though) however just to stick with this consistently, Ndombele cost us 54m (potentially rising to 63m), and GLC appears to have been a loan fee of 16m based on a 'must buy at end of loan' of 55m which ended up being 28m (I am utterly confused by his deal as I'm sure many of us are LOL)


What makes this current window different for me is we are looking to be a more decisive on a few bigger signings than usual, we are clearly not done, and this is all being done without any major sales yet (of course we will sell, but typically we wait to sell a few before bringing people in)...

I think it's a little different personally.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Billy is spot on IMO
I believe the last 2 years has been about a quantity fix and we have had some success with that as shown last season
But we always needed that star dust to come
People we envious of Arsenal and that’s exactly what they did (although they haven’t won a trophy since)
They are now replacing the player brought for this manager with ones they believe are better and that’s what we need to do
Our club trained issue won’t go away and for me is a historical structural issue. But beyond that we have gone around doing things the right way

 

[billyiddo]

The reason transfers drag on and come in later is partly because we can't nail down our primary targets and so move on to others on the list - last summer as an example, we wanted Neto and was close to signing him - do we agree he's on the level of player we are talking about here? We supposedly wanted Gallagher too, do we agree he is also on the same level? All that's happening now is by virtue of being a EL winner and back in the CL and a little bit of convenience relating to a release clause and West Hams financial trouble we have been able to secure our primary targets where previously we couldn't/didn't. It's that simple.

Unless you had convinced yourself the only reason we missed out previously is because Levy is some kind of machiavellian character intent on scuppering deals for reasons then it's all just part of our continued progression with squad building.