braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Did you just forget about Jan Vertonghen?
Personally I think that if we sign Lescott he should be prepared to be on the bench if/when everyone is fit.
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Lescott
- Thread starter P.D.
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Did you just forget about Jan Vertonghen?
Personally I think that if we sign Lescott he should be prepared to be on the bench if/when everyone is fit.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
What do you mean by "pure defender"? Surely a player's overall contribution is a player's contribution and no one plays purely as a defender?
What makes you think that Dawson and Lescott would be a better partnership?
If Lescott was actually better than Vertonghen I don't think City would sell him tbh.
I agree with Rossi's ranking btw, seems about right to me.
I mean that Jan is a good footballer, like Vermaelen at the goons, but his defensive attributes aren't anything special. He's not very good in the air, he doesn't have very good recovery pace and is slow on the turn. He isn't a dominant centre-half in the way that Dawson is (at his best anyway) and he doesn't have the mobility or speed to be the man who can tidy up (King at his best, Kaboul at his best as examples). He is very good on the ball and good at bringing the ball out of defence, and I think his technical ability is above any of our other centre-backs. So that's what I mean.
If Lescott still has a bit of 'recovery speed', coupled with his ability in the air and his natural fit in the left-side (which Jan also has) then I think he could be a better partner for Dawson than Vertonghen is. I couldn't say that for sure though.
How is Chiriches rankes as our number 2 centre-half? He's had as many poor games as good ones and has two massive weaknesses as it stands: 1. He is weak in the air. 2. He struggles with passes played in between him and the left-back.
If Kaboul is fit and firing, he is the best centre-half we have. But it seems as if Kaboul is now crocked. If Kaboul could get back to what he was, then I think Vertonghen-Kaboul would make the best partnership.
Lescott--Dawson could be better than Vert--Dawson, but we'll see.
Maybe Sherwood sees Vert(footballer)-Daws(stopper) as his number 1 partnership, and then Lescott(stopper)--Chiriches(footballer) as the 2nd choice (with Kaboul pensioned off). And that'd make some sense, although still leaves us with some weaknesses to exploit.
He was a very solid CB for Wolves and Everton before being shifted to the left due to Yobo and Jagielka's form.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
He's better than Dawson and Chiriches though, so I don't see how he's 4th/5th choice?
Vert is injured and Kaboul will never play another game for the club.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
But what would playing two stopper type central defenders do to our already sketchy buildup play from the back? This is what I mean by overall contribution being the important bit. The pass Chiriches made in the buildup to our 2-0 goal at Old Trafford was very important, but has nothing to do with being a "pure defender". Ranking central defenders based on how they are as "pure defenders" makes little to no sense to me when it's ignoring obvious contributions that are important to winning football matches.
Vertonghen is really good along the ground defensively, not the quickest perhaps, but certainly not slow. Even as a left back he does alright against most wingers. Imagine Dawson as a full back and be terrified by comparison. That's slow, that's lack of mobility and speed. Vertonghen has gotten a reputation as someone who is slow because he's been up against pacy wingers, for a centre back he's not slow at all imo. Vertonghen might not be dominant in the air, but he's a very good all round defender.
Dawson has had several poor games as well imo. He also has massive and obvious weaknesses, easily as many as Chiriches I think.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
hope so. think thats got the makings of a good solid partnership.
Lescott has immense movement from set pieces so I hope if he comes in he can get us a few goals.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
How is he better than Chiriches? Lescott is just the left sided version of Dawson, neither get picked for England and with good reason too. Dawson is club captain and a RCB, that propels him above Lescott as he's clearly not getting ahead of at least Vertonghen for the LCB role. Kaboul yeah I'm not counting at the moment but you don't know for a fact he'll never play for us again.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
His contract is up in the summer and most likely he's going to have to find a new club.
Securing 2.5 year contract with us is about as good as he's going to get I think. Signing for us now might be preferable to waiting until the summer where more options will be available to us and other CL chasing teams and he might have to look at clubs further down the league table.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
I'm not against Lescott if we decide Kaboul is beyond repair but I'd be pretty annoyed if he comes in now and waltzes in ahead of Chiriches. He'd be my 3rd choice LCB and 4th choice RCB.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
How is he not better than Chiriches. It's laughable really. I like Chiriches, can be great in the future but right now? Come off it. If he played for Chelsea or Liverpool, you'd all be laughing at how much of a joke he is, you'll ignore the good games he has (like rival fans do with the likes of Walker and Lennon hence why no one rates them other than Spurs fans).
I hope for the life of him Kaboul never plays for us again, he has played, what? 2 games of Prem football since the start of 2012/2013 season. In those games, we lost both, to Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2-1 and to Emirates Marketing Project 6-0 and by GHod he was diabolical, out of position numerous times, being a depart and passing back to Lloris knowign full well he couldnt kick etc. he's lost it and i believe his contract is up in the summer, get rid of that clown.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
so I imagine you'll be annoyed when Vertonghen waltzes in ahead of Chiriches because that is EXACTLY what will and deserves to happen?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Like I said before I think he would have to accept being a squad player unless he performs well enough to make a starting spot his own. If he wants to be an obvious first choice he'll have to look at a club further down the league table I think.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Very harsh at best mate. Is there really a need for language like that about one of our own players?
He's obviously a good centre back, yes coming back from a long term injury he hasn't been good, but if he can regain fitness there's a very good player in him.
Rossi22
Pedro Mendes
Well from reading other club forums, they all seem to think similarly to me that Chiriches is actually really quite good? If you think Chiriches can be great in the future then ditching him for a Emirates Marketing Project loanee is hardly the way for him to reach that potential is it, would be an utterly stupid decision.
No, because I'd just move Chiriches to RCB.
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