Josh Onomah

[braineclipse]

but he is

Who? Spurspinter? If so we're reading his posts differently...

 

[Pirate55]

Absolutely no reason at this point to doubt that he has the potential to be international class. If he will get there or not is of course a different question.

Our current success (which I don't see as debatable) is built on player development. Developing players like Kane, Dier, Alli, Lamela, Eriksen, Rose etc to a level that we often couldn't actually go out and buy. Had Alli just had this season at a different PL club I don't think we would have much chance of signing him. Had Kane just had this season at a different PL club there's no way in hell we would have been able to sign him. But because we've trusted these young players and developed them at Spurs we have them. Others like Mason and Bentaleb are playing important squad roles, roles that we otherwise would have had to pay a lot more to fill, both in transfer fees and wages I believe. And we quite possibly wouldn't have squad players as dedicated and motivated to playing for our head coach.

The one thing we cannot afford is to stop developing players. It's that player development that's giving us an edge. That includes giving players like Onomah a start aginst Palace, even though he's not currently international class. Because he has the talent to become international class or even better. And developing multiple players so that one not making the grade doesn't leave a hole in the team.

Where I disagree with you on Onomah is the stage he is at in his development. Virtually all the other players you cite Kane, Alli, Dier, Wimmer, Rose, Carrol, Son etc all had a learning experience with other clubs at a higher level than our Under 21s. I think Onomah may have it in him to be a class player, but just not yet. I think Poch wanted reinforcements in attack (look at the pursuit of Berahino in the summer and Dembele in January) but they didn't come off. Consequently, we are left having to play Onomah and I don't think he is ready yet for anything more than sub appearances until he can show that he is worth a starting place. The next stage of his development is surely a loan to another club next year. If we could have brought in a proven goalscorer then that would have been what Poch would have preferred for this season.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Where I disagree with you on Onomah is the stage he is at in his development. Virtually all the other players you cite Kane, Alli, Dier, Wimmer, Rose, Carrol, Son etc all had a learning experience with other clubs at a higher level than our Under 21s. I think Onomah may have it in him to be a class player, but just not yet. I think Poch wanted reinforcements in attack (look at the pursuit of Berahino in the summer and Dembele in January) but they didn't come off. Consequently, we are left having to play Onomah and I don't think he is ready yet for anything more than sub appearances until he can show that he is worth a starting place. The next stage of his development is surely a loan to another club next year. If we could have brought in a proven goalscorer then that would have been what Poch would have preferred for this season.

I'm not sure that the signing of Dembele or Berahino would've made much difference to Onomah.... Other than perhaps the fact that when resting Kane we could instead have played one of those up front instead of Son, thus allowing Son to take an attacking midfield position instead of having to play in a false 9 type position.

I disagree with you that Onomah isn't ready for anything more than sub appearances. While I don't think he has yet set the World alight for us, neither does he look out of place in our team at all. Some players need to play proper first football regularly in order to develop (often ones who need to come to terms with the physicality of proper men's football) I'm not sure that Onomah needs to come to terms with that. Watching him in our FA Cup game against Leicester at home I remember remarking to my friend who sits next to me that it is interesting to see that despite being only 18 Onomah already looks like any other Spurs player, his teammates have no problem in giving him the ball (even in tight spaces) and he takes up the positions and uses the ball in the way that you would expect an experienced player to do. That is quite big praise for an 18 year old I would say.

 

[braineclipse]

Where I disagree with you on Onomah is the stage he is at in his development. Virtually all the other players you cite Kane, Alli, Dier, Wimmer, Rose, Carrol, Son etc all had a learning experience with other clubs at a higher level than our Under 21s. I think Onomah may have it in him to be a class player, but just not yet. I think Poch wanted reinforcements in attack (look at the pursuit of Berahino in the summer and Dembele in January) but they didn't come off. Consequently, we are left having to play Onomah and I don't think he is ready yet for anything more than sub appearances until he can show that he is worth a starting place. The next stage of his development is surely a loan to another club next year. If we could have brought in a proven goalscorer then that would have been what Poch would have preferred for this season.

We absolutely, 100%, most certainly didn't have to play Onomah against Palace.

We had Chadli on the bench. Who did play against Fiorentina away, but isn't likely to start against Swansea and would almost certainly be fine playing those two games. We also obviously could have played someone else in central midfield and pushed up Bentaleb or Dembele.

Even with Lamela out with an illness, Clinton and Carroll injured, rotating our squad and not counting Mason as he just returned from injury in Florence we had other options than Onomah...

Pochettino chose to play Onomah. Just like he did earlier in the season. Just like when he chose to put Onomah on as a sub at important times in the Premier League games earlier this season with other options available on the bench.

 

[spurspinter1]

but he is

He clearly fudging isn't. I don't get what your point is and you're stating things which are evidently not correct.

And it's way too soon to really be competing for the title. If we're within reach at three games to go I think it's a fair call.

Whether you think he is ready or not doesn't really matter. If he's showing what's necessary in training then he will play due to earning it, what you reckon from seeing a few games is fortunately as relevant as those fans that thought Bale/Kane/Lamela weren't cut out for it (myself being probably involved in that mindset with two of the aforementioned).

We should be happy to be seeing talented local lads emerging and competing for time on the field rather than trying to match their perceived ability to the expectations of our season (which change every three games or so anyway).

 

[alekaras]

We absolutely, 100%, most certainly didn't have to play Onomah against Palace.

We had Chadli on the bench. Who did play against Fiorentina away, but isn't likely to start against Swansea and would almost certainly be fine playing those two games. We also obviously could have played someone else in central midfield and pushed up Bentaleb or Dembele.

Even with Lamela out with an illness, Clinton and Carroll injured, rotating our squad and not counting Mason as he just returned from injury in Florence we had other options than Onomah...

Pochettino chose to play Onomah. Just like he did earlier in the season. Just like when he chose to put Onomah on as a sub at important times in the Premier League games earlier this season with other options available on the bench.

That should tell you that Poch probably rates Onomah more than you, which is what really matters.

 

[SpurMeUp]

That should tell you that Poch probably rates Onomah more than you, which is what really matters.

This. I think Poch is excited by the latent ability of this guy. It might take more time than say Alli who has cut his teeth playing at least a full season of first team football, but Onomah has something the coaching team are excited by.

 

[We are Tottenham]

Absolutely no reason at this point to doubt that he has the potential to be international class. If he will get there or not is of course a different question.

Our current success (which I don't see as debatable) is built on player development. Developing players like Kane, Dier, Alli, Lamela, Eriksen, Rose etc to a level that we often couldn't actually go out and buy. Had Alli just had this season at a different PL club I don't think we would have much chance of signing him. Had Kane just had this season at a different PL club there's no way in hell we would have been able to sign him. But because we've trusted these young players and developed them at Spurs we have them. Others like Mason and Bentaleb are playing important squad roles, roles that we otherwise would have had to pay a lot more to fill, both in transfer fees and wages I believe. And we quite possibly wouldn't have squad players as dedicated and motivated to playing for our head coach.

The one thing we cannot afford is to stop developing players. It's that player development that's giving us an edge. That includes giving players like Onomah a start aginst Palace, even though he's not currently international class. Because he has the talent to become international class or even better. And developing multiple players so that one not making the grade doesn't leave a hole in the team.

I agree with what you say. I am too impatient as a fan and get very dissapointed with results. As a club we should be doing better as others have said in the past. We don,t have a multi billionaire who wants to splash out on players so we have to head in a new direction as you have pointed out. I thought we could have strengthened in the Window just gone and have missed out yet again when we are near the top. Bentaleb is not having as good a season as last year..Onamah, only 18 I must not write him off just yet. I can generally tell a class player very easy, that's why I rate Pritchard so highly. I don,t always get it right though...just most of the time..CoyS.......

 

[Spurs7891]

I am still not convinced of Onamah. For all his runs and dribbling skills, he still lacks the finishing touches. He had 2 good chances to score against Palace but wasted them. Don't think he has done enough to be part of our league campaign in the remaining matches.

 

[milo]

I am still not convinced of Onamah. For all his runs and dribbling skills, he still lacks the finishing touches. He had 2 good chances to score against Palace but wasted them. Don't think he has done enough to be part of our league campaign in the remaining matches.

I am amazed that you seem to expect 18 year old players to come through fully formed and seem to be arguing that Poch should select sides on short term criteria only. How different our team would look now if he had taken this approach throughout his time with us.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I agree with what you say. I am too impatient as a fan and get very dissapointed with results. As a club we should be doing better as others have said in the past. We don,t have a multi billionaire who wants to splash out on players so we have to head in a new direction as you have pointed out. I thought we could have strengthened in the Window just gone and have missed out yet again when we are near the top. Bentaleb is not having as good a season as last year..Onamah, only 18 I must not write him off just yet. I can generally tell a class player very easy, that's why I rate Pritchard so highly. I don,t always get it right though...just most of the time..CoyS.......

IMO Onomah has a higher potential ceiling than Pritchard. Onomah is one of those rare players who is blessed with the physical attributes as well as skill and a good football brain.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I am still not convinced of Onamah. For all his runs and dribbling skills, he still lacks the finishing touches. He had 2 good chances to score against Palace but wasted them. Don't think he has done enough to be part of our league campaign in the remaining matches.

That does not concern me in the slightest. If an 18 year old player is getting into goal scoring positions from midfield then they must be a very good player. I can remember back when my Dad was involved in football and discussing a sponsorship deal (I think with Adidas) for one of his players. The head of sponsorship mentioned that they were discussing a deal for a young player called Frank Lampard (who was about 18 at the time and had just started playing for the West Ham first team) Their head of sponsorship was in two minds as it was a bigger deal than usual for a young player and his concern was that the player seemed to miss a lot of chances. My Dad's response was to tell him to get the player signed as quickly as possible. His words were along the lines of... "If the boy is already getting into positions to miss chances from midfield at Premier League level, having just broken through at only 18 years old, imagine how good he will be as he realises he has a little less time to consider his shot and needs to hit it a little harder and little nearer the corners to account for the fact he is now playing against better keepers".

Never be concerned when a player is missing chances.... Instead be concerned when a player doesn't get into goal scoring positions in the first place.

 

[Yoof]

IMO Onomah has a higher potential ceiling than Pritchard. Onomah is one of those rare players who is blessed with the physical attributes as well as skill and a good football brain.

I think Onomah has a higher ceiling too but not as an attacking midfielder. I completely get why Pochettino is using him there currently as there's less defensive responsibility in that position but long term I still see him as a CM. It's only in the past year that he's begun to play further forward as before that he almost exclusively played deeper and that's where his skillset is best suited imo.

 

[milo]

I think Onomah has a higher ceiling too but not as an attacking midfielder. I completely get why Pochettino is using him there currently as there's less defensive responsibility in that position but long term I still see him as a CM. It's only in the past year that he's begun to play further forward as before that he almost exclusively played deeper and that's where his skillset is best suited imo.

I agree. He is a pretty exciting prospect as the long term successor to Dembele.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think Onomah has a higher ceiling too but not as an attacking midfielder. I completely get why Pochettino is using him there currently as there's less defensive responsibility in that position but long term I still see him as a CM. It's only in the past year that he's begun to play further forward as before that he almost exclusively played deeper and that's where his skillset is best suited imo.

Agreed I see him as our future Dembele (as milo has already said)

 

[braineclipse]

That should tell you that Poch probably rates Onomah more than you, which is what really matters.

I'm not sure if you misread my post or if I misread yours... I'm certainly not saying that Pochettino isn't rating Onomah, or that I'm not rating Onomah.

Just saying that right now Chadli is rated higher (current ability) and that Onomah is getting starts in cup competitions in part to aid his development and that I'm all for that.

IMO Onomah has a higher potential ceiling than Pritchard. Onomah is one of those rare players who is blessed with the physical attributes as well as skill and a good football brain.

Agreed. Certainly looks like it right now. And certainly looks like Pochettino is in agreement and is dedicating time and more tellingly game time to Onomah to help him get as close to that ceiling as possible.

I think Onomah has a higher ceiling too but not as an attacking midfielder. I completely get why Pochettino is using him there currently as there's less defensive responsibility in that position but long term I still see him as a CM. It's only in the past year that he's begun to play further forward as before that he almost exclusively played deeper and that's where his skillset is best suited imo.

Could be. But I think it's way way too soon to make conclusions about what his best position will be.

I respect that you've seen more of him than me, and more youth football in general than me I assume. But looking at other predictions that have been made about what player's best positions will be I just think this seems premature.

What will end up as his best positions might in part be influenced by what roles are available in our team, what his competition is, what system we play etc. One of the things that makes him exciting is that versatility he's showing.

 

[alekaras]

I'm not sure if you misread my post or if I misread yours... I'm certainly not saying that Pochettino isn't rating Onomah, or that I'm not rating Onomah.

Just saying that right now Chadli is rated higher (current ability) and that Onomah is getting starts in cup competitions in part to aid his development and that I'm all for that.

I didn't misread your post. You just replied to response I made to a different poster.

 

[braineclipse]

I didn't misread your post. You just replied to response I made to a different poster.

Ah. Misread the quotethingy...

 

[Spurs7891]

That does not concern me in the slightest. If an 18 year old player is getting into goal scoring positions from midfield then they must be a very good player. I can remember back when my Dad was involved in football and discussing a sponsorship deal (I think with Adidas) for one of his players. The head of sponsorship mentioned that they were discussing a deal for a young player called Frank Lampard (who was about 18 at the time and had just started playing for the West Ham first team) Their head of sponsorship was in two minds as it was a bigger deal than usual for a young player and his concern was that the player seemed to miss a lot of chances. My Dad's response was to tell him to get the player signed as quickly as possible. His words were along the lines of... "If the boy is already getting into positions to miss chances from midfield at Premier League level, having just broken through at only 18 years old, imagine how good he will be as he realises he has a little less time to consider his shot and needs to hit it a little harder and little nearer the corners to account for the fact he is now playing against better keepers".

Never be concerned when a player is missing chances.... Instead be concerned when a player doesn't get into goal scoring positions in the first place.

The problem with the youngsters is that they lack experience to compete at the top level. We should only play youngsters who are top quality talents like Alli. Unlike Alli, i just can't see anything special with Onomah so far.

 

[milo]

The problem with the youngsters is that they lack experience to compete at the top level. We should only play youngsters who are top quality talents like Alli. Unlike Alli, i just can't see anything special with Onomah so far.

By this measure we should not have persevered with Kane or Lamela.