James McCarthy

[Mumorn]

yeah but Poch has converted him. Imagine, Poch played Mason in central midfield for practically a whole PL season against some of the best players in the world. Poch must be a mug

He's certainly made some dodgy decisions since appointed manager, I agree.

 

[indianspur]

He's certainly made some dodgy decisions since appointed manager, I agree.

fair enough

 

[parklane1]

Yes they are. There real information based on actual things that have happened so therefore there factual based on the point in time their taken

Listen I have worked in pro football on the coaching side and I can assure you that stats very rarely tell the whole/true story, they are a tool to be used but no one who has any idea about coaching in football use them as a definite.

Stats can be used to show whatever the user wants to show but as I say can be used to TRY and prove whatever they are pushing, they are not always the real answer.

 

[Nigeyman]

He's certainly made some dodgy decisions since appointed manager, I agree.

would one of those dodgy choices be appointing Kaboul as captain per chance???? fannying around and not putting Kane in the starting 11 sooner???

 

[indianspur]

Listen I have worked in pro football on the coaching side and I can assure you that stats very rarely tell the whole/true story, they are a tool to be used but no one who has any idea about coaching in football use them as a definite.

Stats can be used to show whatever the user wants to show but as I say can be used to TRY and prove whatever they are pushing, they are not always the real answer.

then arent you worried that we have Poch and Mitchell who are obsessed with stats and in charge of bringing in players?

 

[Mumorn]

would one of those dodgy choices be appointing Kaboul as captain per chance???? fannying around and not putting Kane in the starting 11 sooner???

amongst others, yes.

 

[parklane1]

then arent you worried that we have Poch and Mitchell who are obsessed with stats and in charge of bringing in players?

I will say again that stats are a tool that can be used to help in coaching but I can not see Pooch or Mitchell using them as the holy bible unlike some fans do.

 

[indianspur]

I will say again that stats are a tool that can be used to help in coaching but I can not see Pooch or Mitchell using them as the holy bible unlike some fans do.

no but obviously they must rely heavily on stats when assessing which players to buy, this is what Mitchell is famous for. So I would say that sats ARE the holy bible to them

 

[parklane1]

no but obviously they must rely heavily on stats when assessing which players to buy, this is what Mitchell is famous for. So I would say that sats ARE the holy bible to them

Well I can not speak for either of them but I would be surprised if they would actually buy any player based solely on stats. They are a tool to help but there is a lot more then that used on judging a player.

 

[GrimsbyYid]

well.. we did. until people eventually warmed to him. Plus he scored goals so people would generally like him. McCarthy is Irish and a defensive midfielder who rarely slide tackles (because of his brilliant positioning) and rarely scores (because its not his job), so its natural people wont rate him.

as well as the fact that people dont actually watch him play because he's an Everton player.

This may be hard to believe, and I know people love to demean and belittle others opinions with the if his name ended in inho people would love him or other snidey remarks like if he scored a wonder goal we'd love him (yes, because we are that simple, and don't have as nuanced opinions as you), but maybe we've seen him, and that video amplifies , and think he's just a bit average....

 

[GrimsbyYid]

we have ryan mason in midfield, so your statement is wrong.

Though I agree with this a thousand percent. He IS an upgrade. Just not as big of one I would like.

 

[indianspur]

Well I can not speak for either of them but I would be surprised if they would actually buy any player based solely on stats. They are a tool to help but there is a lot more then that used on judging a player.

not specifically about our current regime, but interesting anyway......

Former Tottenham director of football Damien Comolli has declared that Harry Redknapp only used Gareth Bale on the left wing because the club's hierarchy told him to do so.

Real Madrid star Bale - who cost Los Blancos a world record £85million from the north London club 15 months ago - initially struggled to make his mark at White Hart Lane following his 2007 switch from Southampton, having been played as a left-back.

Injuries contributed to his early struggles and reports emerged of a possible £3million move to Birmingham City, while he also failed to secure a Premier League win as a Spurs player until 2009.

But after moving position to play further forward as a bona-fide left winger, Bale exploded and has since seen his career go from strength-to-strength - something Comolli says was down more to statistical analysis, than the want of then-Spurs chief Redknapp.

"I've got to say, I've been working with data since 2005 or 2006 in terms of recruitment," said Comolli, speaking to Irish radio station Newstalks.

"We did it at Spurs. We used data in terms of team selection.

"Spurs actually told Harry Redknapp where to play Gareth Bale, because he wanted to get rid of him.

"Data was showing Bale would be an outstanding left winger when they were playing him at left-back."

Redknapp led Spurs into the Champions League before being sacked in 2012.

He has previously declared that he never had any intention of selling Bale during his tenure, stating in his autobiography 'Always Managing': "There is some right old rubbish talked about Gareth Bale’s time with me at Tottenham.

"Was I ever going to sell Bale? No. Was I going to loan him? No. Whatever faults I may have, I do know a player. I would never sell Gareth. All he needed was to be toughened up to emerge as a star player."

Comolli, who worked at Spurs for three years, prior to a two year stint with Liverpool, also had his say on the club's 2010 decision to sign Netherlands international Rafael van der Vaart from Real Madrid.

Again, he believes his methods of using data played a part - despite him no longer being at the club.

"Spurs have never come out publicly saying it, but I am saying it because I don’t work at the club anymore.

"Spurs had the choice between signing Van der Vaart and another player, and Daniel Levy said we are going for Van der Vaart because data is telling us to.

"I won’t mention the other player who did nothing after that but Van der Vaart had a great two or three years at Spurs."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/gareth-bales-spurs-career-took-4645050

 

[parklane1]

I see nothing there that says the only reason we buy any player is based on stats.

 

[Superhudd]

Clubs above us already have, or are in the process of signing, top quality players. It's therefore not good enough for Spurs to buy a player merely because he is a slight upgrade (and even that is debatable) on what we already have - because it will still leave us trailing those clubs we wish to catch. If we are to sign players, they must at least have the potential to take us to a higher level. And McCarthy is not that type of player.

If it's squad filler that we need, then let's use the academy and development squads. If given a first team chance at DM, I believe that Veljkovic could relatively quickly prove himself to be a player with a much higher ceiling than McCarthy. If we don't soon give him the opportunity, we will risk losing him. And I think we would regret that. Besides, we are not a club that can afford to spend £10-15m on squad filler.

So let's buy a DM, by all means. But no more of these meh signings that we've specialised in over the past year or two.

I agree about bringing in the youngsters, but as you put elsewhere.. we are not in a position as a club to go after the players that are atop the food chain. For me for example, just because he is British its a plus for me, I have a gut feeling that we will lose both Lennon and Kyle Walker in the coming weeks and we need to maintain the British core, just the fact that also maybe there was a chance (not sure) that he would integrate better than a another foreign import. My feeling is that all our signings should be either British, but I mean English really, or have experience in the Premier League. Someone mentioned Jedinak above.. a very good choice in my book also. Ideally I would love Schneiderlin and McCarthy.

 

[DublinSpur]

no but obviously they must rely heavily on stats when assessing which players to buy, this is what Mitchell is famous for. So I would say that sats ARE the holy bible to them

I think you've got that completely wrong as it happens. All of the articles I've read about Mitchell and his "system" at Southampton talked about banks of screens and people watching hours upon hours of player footage in order to see deeper than the stats. Unless I picked it up wrong, the whole selling point of Mitchell's system was that it doesn't just look at the stats in isolation but actually analyses player performance and puts the stats into context.

 

[jimmyb]

if Ryan Mason could play central midfield I wouldn't say that. To think otherwise is ludicrous.

And yet you felt it perfectly valid to dismiss other people's opinion of McCarthy in a similarly sarcastic vein?

Come on, fella. That's more than a little hypocritical, you must admit.

 

[jimmyb]

I agree about bringing in the youngsters, but as you put elsewhere.. we are not in a position as a club to go after the players that are atop the food chain. For me for example, just because he is British its a plus for me, I have a gut feeling that we will lose both Lennon and Kyle Walker in the coming weeks and we need to maintain the British core, just the fact that also maybe there was a chance (not sure) that he would integrate better than a another foreign import. My feeling is that all our signings should be either British, but I mean English really, or have experience in the Premier League. Someone mentioned Jedinak above.. a very good choice in my book also. Ideally I would love Schneiderlin and McCarthy.

Lennon, yes. He's as good as gone. But I've seen or heard nothing to suggest that Walker is going anywhere.

Regardless, that would still leave us with Kane, Dier, Rose, Mason, Trippier, Townsend, Davies, Alli, Pritchard and maybe Carroll - with the likes of McGee, Onomah, Winks, Oduwa and 2CV in and around the squad and possibly getting the occasional game.

More than enough Brits to be getting on with!

 

[P.D.]

How is Lennon as good as gone? He may be available yes I don't doubt but I've not seen a single credible article linking him with a move away as yet.

 

[Finney Is Back]

then arent you worried that we have Poch and Mitchell who are obsessed with stats and in charge of bringing in players?

I could have mixed things up but I'm sure I read an article somewhere where Pochettino was interviewed and he said that he wasn't that bothered by stats and preferred to judge with his own eyes?

 

[Superhudd]

Lennon, yes. He's as good as gone. But I've seen or heard nothing to suggest that Walker is going anywhere.

Regardless, that would still leave us with Kane, Dier, Rose, Mason, Trippier, Townsend, Davies, Alli, Pritchard and maybe Carroll - with the likes of McGee, Onomah, Winks, Oduwa and 2CV in and around the squad and possibly getting the occasional game.

More than enough Brits to be getting on with!

Experience wise that is very weak. As for Walker.. its a gut feeling... mainly due to players bought, pursued and of course his injuries, I think he will be sold.