Israel Gaza

[scaramanga]

Oh, and I agree about the truth being the first casualty.

It's astounding how Hamas and their predecessors have managed to turn their terrorism into a cause that so many Guardian readers believe in.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Oh, and I agree about the truth being the first casualty.

It's astounding how Hamas and their predecessors have managed to turn their terrorism into a cause that so many Guardian readers believe in.

Nothing should ever amaze you about guardian readers scara. I was reading that website online this week andd so many of them were saying they would vote to stay in the EU just because they thought the tories would vote to pull out(unlikely to actually happen).

Seems to me the whole point about the readership of that paper is to take the opposite view to what the "right" think without actually lookin at the topic and making up their own mind on it.

 

[COYS]

Is there any proof Hamas use han shields? Or is it just propoganda just like the targeting of civilian areas by Israel which I'm sure is also propoganda? As they say the first casualty of war is the truth. Thing I find saddest is when people can't see it from a human perspective and try justifying a sides killings due to some loyalty they believe in.

These photos were uploaded by the IDF, so there is some bias, but they are pretty true:

This one is a copy of thousands of leaflets that was dropped out (in Arabic) by Israeli helicopters:

And this is the cause for civilian deaths. Hamas keep their rocket bases in civilian areas to ensure that if Israel strike, civilians will die:

 

[WhoopWhoop]

These photos were uploaded by the IDF, so there is some bias, but they are pretty true:

This one is a copy of thousands of leaflets that was dropped out (in Arabic) by Israeli helicopters:

And this is the cause for civilian deaths. Hamas keep their rocket bases in civilian areas to ensure that if Israel strike, civilians will die:

That's exactly my point an article or poster or whatever made by the idf? fudge that wouldn't believe a word of it just like I wouldn't believe a word Hamas said. Seems not nearly as many people as I thought would see it from a human perspective and see it from whatever side they believe to have allegiance to. Main reason there will never be peace I suppose.

 

[Spursman]

What hope does anyone have when the people of Gaza elect a terrorist organisation who's motto is "We desire death like you desire life"

Whos people celebrate a bus bombing and give out sweets in celebration.

Just amazes me how people can defend them. Made me laugh this morning. On the news they reported that the Gazans were celebrating the fact that there was a ceasefire. They were celebrating a so called victory over Israel and the death of people. Did you see them warm of incoming rockets??? no!

 

[jts1882]

It's too soon to know this time, but it's well documented that its been done in the past a lot - in 2008 especially. Also the falsifying of civilian casualties (they fooled the BBC with at least one video) and the use of ambulances to transport terrorists/bombs shows a method of waging war that places little or no value on the people they claim to be protecting.

I have no doubt that Hamas us human shields, but in such an asymmetric war what are they supposed to do?

However, if they are using children as shields in a school you can't just destroy the school and say its collateral damage withoout being as bad as the Hamas terrorists. Also why does Israel destroy the football stadium and the bridges if they are just targeting Hamas militants. Its clearly a terror campaign to subdue the population and destroy their economic prospects.

What hope does anyone have when the people of Gaza elect a terrorist organisation who's motto is "We desire death like you desire life"

How about the Likud statement of aims? Surely that is equally as bad.

 

[NW5pur]

Actually, that makes all the difference.

A military strike with civilian casualties is fighting a war. A strike purely designed to kill innocent civilians is terrorism. One's bad, the other's evil.

Think about the escalation in this conflict:

Israel take out a known terrorist in a highly accurate strike - Hamas launch rockets at civilians.

Israel take out some Hamas missile sites - Hamas launch rockets at civilians.

Israel take out some more Hamas missile sites, Hamas' supporters blow up a bus full of civilians.

Spot a pattern?

you're right, Hamas should really be using their F16's and hi-tech drones to attack Israeli military targets, and then it would obviously be alright to kill 150 odd people because it's an accident, unless you're one of the dead people, then it might it be a bit more of an issue!

not that i'm defending hamas, it's just i find the zionist / israeli extremists just as deplorable. there's no denying they inflict just as much, if not more terror and misery on the Palestinians as the Palestinians inflict on them.

 

[jts1882]

I can see a pattern. The highly accurate strikes keep hitting civilian targets: schools, mosques, the football stadium, bridges, hotels housing journalists, etc. Perhaps they are lying about the highly accurate strikes or should be checking the warranty.

 

[COYS]

That's exactly my point an article or poster or whatever made by the idf? fudge that wouldn't believe a word of it just like I wouldn't believe a word Hamas said. Seems not nearly as many people as I thought would see it from a human perspective and see it from whatever side they believe to have allegiance to. Main reason there will never be peace I suppose.

My point is whilst it's obviously biased, there's no word of lie in what they wrote. Hamas aimed for civilians, Israel did their best to avoid them. Hamas were responsible for their own people's deaths.

Whilst in the past Israel's actions may not have been fully innocent, in this case what they did was totally acceptable. Israel had the full right to defend itself and they couldn't just sit back and let Hamas get away with constant rocket attacks on Israel just because dingdongheads from Hamas hid amongst civilians.

No matter where you stand in the Palestine-Israel conflict, you cannot condone Hamas' actions. They are 100% a terrorist organisation and their aims are very clear.

 

[Steed Train]

HAHA sage advice on the leaflet

"Don't stand near Hamas operatives unless you want to get bombed"

I imagine they wear helpful badges so they can be easily identified.


They just reek of propaganda, posters to make the Israeli populace feel less guilty when they read stories of children being blown in two.

No one is faultless in such a conflict. Both sides can never come to an accord as they have conflicting ideologies and would never back down. I fear it will take a significant land based conflict to ever truly resolve which is a great shame

 

[COYS]

HAHA sage advice on the leaflet

"Don't stand near Hamas operatives unless you want to get bombed"

I imagine they wear helpful badges so they can be easily identified.


They just reek of propaganda, posters to make the Israeli populace feel less guilty when they read stories of children being blown in two.

No one is faultless in such a conflict. Both sides can never come to an accord as they have conflicting ideologies and would never back down. I fear it will take a significant land based conflict to ever truly resolve which is a great shame

So because the Hamas operatives are hiding in crowds of civilians Israel should just carry on and allow themselves to be bombed? In this conflict the cause of all civilian deaths was Hamas.

 

[Spursman]

Rockets still being fired into Israel. Of course the uk press don't mention it.

 

[WhoopWhoop]

is it any surprise after Israel shot and killed a palestinian this morning?

 

[NewYorkSpurs]

is it any surprise after Israel shot and killed a palestinian this morning?

When you have close to 300 (as being reported) angry people charging a fence throwing rocks at you, and you shoot off warning shots yet they continue, what are you supposed to do? Let them pelt you with rocks and breach the fence?

Multiple news sources are reporting that they were throwing rocks at the soldiers, taunting and attempted to place a Hamas flag on the fence. I'm not justifying a shooting, but let's not make it seem as if they just shot an innocent kid for no reason whatsoever. It's not that black and white.

 

[Papercut]

When you have close to 300 (as being reported) angry people charging a fence throwing rocks at you, and you shoot off warning shots yet they continue, what are you supposed to do? Let them pelt you with rocks and breach the fence?

Multiple news sources are reporting that they were throwing rocks at the soldiers, taunting and attempted to place a Hamas flag on the fence. I'm not justifying a shooting, but let's not make it seem as if they just shot an innocent kid for no reason whatsoever. It's not that black and white.

Push the fence further back and call the new space Israel.

 

[Gifter]

Push the fence further back and call the new space Israel.

I know I shouldn't LOL at that, but I did. Hope that is OK Papercut, it is in agreement with the satire of your post.

 

[Papercut]

Lol away brother; it's what's happening already isn't it?

 

[Gifter]

Again, the three world wars letter by Albert Pike in 1871 (or by Cardinal Abp. Caro y Rodriguez in 1925);

"The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the "agentur" (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions." 2

Students of history will recognize that the political alliances of England on one side and Germany on the other, forged between 1871 and 1898 by Otto von Bismarck, co-conspirator of Albert Pike, were instrumental in bringing about the First World War.

"The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm." 3

After this Second World War, Communism was made strong enough to begin taking over weaker governments. In 1945, at the Potsdam Conference between Truman, Churchill, and Stalin, a large portion of Europe was simply handed over to Russia, and on the other side of the world, the aftermath of the war with Japan helped to sweep the tide of Communism into China.

(Readers who argue that the terms Nazism and Zionism were not known in 1871 should remember that the Illuminati invented both these movements. In addition, Communism as an ideology, and as a coined phrase, originates in France during the Revolution. In 1785, Restif coined the phrase four years before revolution broke out. Restif and Babeuf, in turn, were influenced by Rousseau - as was the most famous conspirator of them all, Adam Weishaupt.)

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Underscore is website comment from - http://www.threeworldwars.com/albert-pike2.htm

Whenever it was actually written, or by whoever, they have predicted the current climate to such a chillingly accurate degree that it ever more shocks me. Even when I first read this many years ago I was stunned by the WWII parts, yet sceptical of the rest, now it creeps me out totally.

So you can verify the latest this could have been written is 1925 = http://angeluspress.org/Mystery-Of-Freemasonry-Unveiled

 

[NewYorkSpurs]

Push the fence further back and call the new space Israel.

And then they'll only charge that fence.

 

[Papercut]

And then they'll only charge that fence.

And so it will continue... can the Palestinian's be pushed into the sea? I ask because Israel did a great job controlling international waters in recent years. Maybe the only way is up for the Palestinians? (think Yazz)

Anyhoo, I should stop now - the whiskey will soon flow and I'll start getting emotional... :-#