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Igor the Interim

thfcsteff said:
I bit my tongue and supported him when he arrived because I support the club. I wanted to believe he would be worth it. But it didn't take long for me to see he was not going to do us any good.
What I have been surprised by, is the reality that we really weren't very fit/ready for the graft. I mean, WTF were they doing under TF to be so unprepared?
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When did you start to lose faith @thfcsteff? For me, the first question mark was Chelsea - a fudging disgusting performance. I said at the time, and maintain now, his tactics should have lost that game by more - the players busted a nut to only lose 1-0.

I'm guessing a lot will point to the Woolwich game. I can see why but I expected to lose that one.

I was further rocked by Forest which was abysmal too but I guess I wasn't firmly "Frank Out" until West Ham as he'd gotten 4 points from Palace and Brentford at the end of December to seemingly steer us away from a relegation scrap. After the loss to West Ham, it had become absolutely untenable for me.

If Tudor gets us out of trouble, it'll be the greatest f**k you to the media and some fans (me included as I'd have sacked him last Tuesday) since Ange winning the Europa after being relentlessly mocked for "I always win things in my second year".
 
Mr Gogolak said:
We even had a few good results at first but nobody could ever tell what the project was. We weren't outrunning the opposition. We didn't keep the ball well but we weren't a good counter-attacking team either. We weren't that good at crossing. We couldn't pass the ball. Then he lost control of the dressing room and the writing was on the wall.

The fitness issue is absolutely unacceptable though. I usually wish former managers well but, in this case, he really deserves some of the stick he's getting, in my opinion.
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This sums it up really well. In literally every conceivable way, Frank was bad. The fact that we didn’t counter despite not trying to make the game in possession was frankly just odd. Nothingness was baked into his plan and then he’d gaslight us in press conferences talking about how he would be adding new layers…when he’s already 5 months in and we’re seeing nothing.

For a singular appointment to damn near relegate us…there can’t have been a worse appointment ever made, relative to the size of the club.
 
DeanoAustin said:
When did you start to lose faith @thfcsteff? For me, the first question mark was Chelsea - a fudging disgusting performance. I said at the time, and maintain now, his tactics should have lost that game by more - the players busted a nut to only lose 1-0.

I'm guessing a lot will point to the Woolwich game. I can see why but I expected to lose that one.

I was further rocked by Forest which was abysmal too but I guess I wasn't firmly "Frank Out" until West Ham as he'd gotten 4 points from Palace and Brentford at the end of December to seemingly steer us away from a relegation scrap. After the loss to West Ham, it had become absolutely untenable for me.

If Tudor gets us out of trouble, it'll be the greatest f**k you to the media and some fans (me included as I'd have sacked him last Tuesday) since Ange winning the Europa after being relentlessly mocked for "I always win things in my second year".
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The Chelsea game should have had alarm bells ringing at the club, even if many of us fans were trying to still be optimistic about it.

Because for a team of our quality to turn in a performance like that, in a game of that magnitude, it’s just a complete disgrace. To serve up so few actual attempts on goal, to look so utterly disconnected as a unit 5 months into the tenure. It was so bad. I’ve never seen anything like it. We genuinely were better under Pleat in 03-04.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Frank is a very special in that he's the first Spurs manager in a long, long time whose profesionalism and ability look questionable. Some of the others you liked, disliked, some lost control of the situation or were just plain wrong but at least, you could see what they were trying to achieve. There was a method and an end goal.

With Frank, it seems there was absolutely nothing: no identity, no patterns, no philosophy... and the fitness training left a lot to be desired (something that had been clear for a while). When he got the sack, I thought he was dealt a poor hand but with hindsight, from his first press conference to his last game as a Spurs manager, I believe he shot himself in the head.
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I agree, and I'm still shocked by it. Honestly, I was delighted with Frank's appointment - surely a manager who'd done so well with Brentford would be a success with a team full of potential? A classy articulate guy who'd lead us to glory.

How could I have got it so wrong? It's really got me questioning everything I think about managers.

I guess he was, to a greater extent than I realised, a big fish in a small pond who wasn't able to deal with the unique pressures at Spurs and collapsed into his shell.
 
DeanoAustin said:
When did you start to lose faith @thfcsteff? For me, the first question mark was Chelsea - a fudging disgusting performance. I said at the time, and maintain now, his tactics should have lost that game by more - the players busted a nut to only lose 1-0.

I'm guessing a lot will point to the Woolwich game. I can see why but I expected to lose that one.

I was further rocked by Forest which was abysmal too but I guess I wasn't firmly "Frank Out" until West Ham as he'd gotten 4 points from Palace and Brentford at the end of December to seemingly steer us away from a relegation scrap. After the loss to West Ham, it had become absolutely untenable for me.

If Tudor gets us out of trouble, it'll be the greatest f**k you to the media and some fans (me included as I'd have sacked him last Tuesday) since Ange winning the Europa after being relentlessly mocked for "I always win things in my second year".
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For me it was Chelsea at home, disgusting performance. I was actually fighting Franks corner on injuries and time needed until then, but it was a massive red flag performance.
 
I wouldn’t keep him to be honest personally but what do I know. If he carries on getting a tune out of this depleted squad and saves us emphatically from relegation … I would perhaps flirt with the idea … however if the players improve, work above and beyond for him … then I’d be a little confused in my mind … if the players give him an astounding backing and we demolish teams then I’d leave it to the powers that be.

However the stink in the room that won’t disappear is Pochettino and his return. Some fans just won’t let dead dogs lie so it’s almost like exorcising that ghost before anyone else is considered.
 
Gazza said:
I wouldn’t keep him to be honest personally but what do I know. If he carries on getting a tune out of this depleted squad and saves us emphatically from relegation … I would perhaps flirt with the idea … however if the players improve, work above and beyond for him … then I’d be a little confused in my mind … if the players give him an astounding backing and we demolish teams then I’d leave it to the powers that be.

However the stink in the room that won’t disappear is Pochettino and his return. Some fans just won’t let dead dogs lie so it’s almost like exorcising that ghost before anyone else is considered.
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The issue is that no manager is going to get a fair crack till it is him IMO, not to the fullest support. The fanbase always feels unquenched because its not Poch, I am not saying we have had a great record of appointments but its like when we sign a player that isn't the first choice, its end of days stuff sometimes.

I think given what the board needs and how easily the fanbase is swayed, Poch will be the quick win they need before not backing him in the transfer market, but gives fans something to cheer.
 
FatBloke said:
I agree, and I'm still shocked by it. Honestly, I was delighted with Frank's appointment - surely a manager who'd done so well with Brentford would be a success with a team full of potential? A classy articulate guy who'd lead us to glory.

How could I have got it so wrong? It's really got me questioning everything I think about managers.

I guess he was, to a greater extent than I realised, a big fish in a small pond who wasn't able to deal with the unique pressures at Spurs and collapsed into his shell.
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As is so often the case, it's probably a mix of different things, although we will never know for sure.

If anything, Frank's failure and this season's results show the quality of Brentford's set up. I remember reading an in-depth feature about it a few years ago. Apparently, it's based on FC Mydtjylland (no idea of the actual spelling, sorry) and it was supposed to be very, very thorough. One thing in particular that piqued my interest is that, alongside the date-driven analysis (which was fairly new at the time in football but existed in American sports, I think) they had a team of psychologists.

They went as far as calling former and current team-mates of a transfer target to try and see if they'd fit in.

My theory is that Frank was given a Rolls Royce that was dressed up as a Buick - players with good mentalities, decent ability and perfectly suited to what they had in mind for the first team.

When he arrived at Spurs, he found a squad ill-suited to his kind of football, that clearly hadn't gotten over the previous manager's departure. What's worse, he couldn't sign the players he wanted, ie big-name players like Semenyo, but he couldn't sign budget players like he did at Brentford either. From there, it went from bad to worse.

What my scenario doesn't explain is:

How did he think it'd be a good idea to guarantee we would lose games
His bizarre fascination with Arsenal
His inability to instill a modicum of discipline within the squad
The unacceptable level of fitness within the squad, despite having - I think - his entire staff from Brentford

In the end, I think he did it to himself and if I were him, I'd seek advice before taking another high-profile job.
 
Gazza said:
I wouldn’t keep him to be honest personally but what do I know. If he carries on getting a tune out of this depleted squad and saves us emphatically from relegation … I would perhaps flirt with the idea … however if the players improve, work above and beyond for him … then I’d be a little confused in my mind … if the players give him an astounding backing and we demolish teams then I’d leave it to the powers that be.

However the stink in the room that won’t disappear is Pochettino and his return. Some fans just won’t let dead dogs lie so it’s almost like exorcising that ghost before anyone else is considered.
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Rest assured that once he's come and gone, it will be Ange. 'Only manager to win something for us in a decade', etc.
 
I think it is too early to say whether Tudor should be considered for the permie job.

At this stage I'm more worried about the process of selecting a manager by our club. Who takes the key roles and who sets the strategy for how we move forward. I learned a long time ago that Levy should have been nowhere near hiring managers. He fired managers because he was useless at hiring them in the first place. It became a vicious cycle of desperation. Frank is the last in Levy's long list.

I didn't see last night's game but it would appear from reading everyone's commentary that Tudor could be a stylistic fit to the club's football philosophy. That is huge when I think about what happened with Frank.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
As is so often the case, it's probably a mix of different things, although we will never know for sure.

If anything, Frank's failure and this season's results show the quality of Brentford's set up. I remember reading an in-depth feature about it a few years ago. Apparently, it's based on FC Mydtjylland (no idea of the actual spelling, sorry) and it was supposed to be very, very thorough. One thing in particular that piqued my interest is that, alongside the date-driven analysis (which was fairly new at the time in football but existed in American sports, I think) they had a team of psychologists.

They went as far as calling former and current team-mates of a transfer target to try and see if they'd fit in.

My theory is that Frank was given a Rolls Royce that was dressed up as a Buick - players with good mentalities, decent ability and perfectly suited to what they had in mind for the first team.

When he arrived at Spurs, he found a squad ill-suited to his kind of football, that clearly hadn't gotten over the previous manager's departure. What's worse, he couldn't sign the players he wanted, ie big-name players like Semenyo, but he couldn't sign budget players like he did at Brentford either. From there, it went from bad to worse.

What my scenario doesn't explain is:

How did he think it'd be a good idea to guarantee we would lose games
His bizarre fascination with Arsenal
His inability to instill a modicum of discipline within the squad
The unacceptable level of fitness within the squad, despite having - I think - his entire staff from Brentford

In the end, I think he did it to himself and if I were him, I'd seek advice before taking another high-profile job.
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Excellent post, as always. Brentford's continued success reinforces the strength of their overall setup vs just one manager.

As you say, some things were all a bit weird. Like the fitness thing. Maybe the lack of conditioning played its part in all the injuries – players pushing the limits of their fitness in match situations are always going to break down eventually.

IMHO, the overarching problem at Spurs has always been that we're too big for our boots. As soon as we get to upper mid-table, everyone gets giddy and wants to shoot for the top. We're a club made for the dreamers. Planning for mid-Prem solidity just isn't good enough for Spurs, which makes it all very very difficult.

I'm not saying that we should aim that low, just highlighting that we operate in that strange zone below the truly rich clubs but above the "happy to be here" ones. It's a difficult tightrope to walk, and the last two seasons have seen what happens when we lose our balance.

At the end of the day, supporting Spurs is never boring.
 
Rafa87 said:
Out of curiosity and interest, and this is purely hypothetical;

Let’s say Igor wins a few games now and ends up keeping us in the league. Would anyone consider giving him the job full time? Or do people see him only as a ‘specialist’ of sorts, and if we stay up it’s just, job done, thanks for your help, who’s next?

(Edit: I know my response but curious to see if it’s the majority)
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tbh he still might not see this season out...with the flip flopping world we live in.
 
FatBloke said:
Excellent post, as always. Brentford's continued success reinforces the strength of their overall setup vs just one manager.

As you say, some things were all a bit weird. Like the fitness thing. Maybe the lack of conditioning played its part in all the injuries – players pushing the limits of their fitness in match situations are always going to break down eventually.

IMHO, the overarching problem at Spurs has always been that we're too big for our boots. As soon as we get to upper mid-table, everyone gets giddy and wants to shoot for the top. We're a club made for the dreamers. Planning for mid-Prem solidity just isn't good enough for Spurs, which makes it all very very difficult.

I'm not saying that we should aim that low, just highlighting that we operate in that strange zone below the truly rich clubs but above the "happy to be here" ones. It's a difficult tightrope to walk, and the last two seasons have seen what happens when we lose our balance.

At the end of the day, supporting Spurs is never boring.
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I genuinely think a lot of what Frank did was in response to what Ange did. Like he saw his role as unwinding it. And this isn’t a comment one way or the other, but I think it’s what was going on in Frank’s mind. So he sees the team being very open, it’s his job to close us up. He sees the team running non stop, it’s his job to temper that a lot etc. Which is interesting because he came talking about standing on the shoulders of what came before, but when the pressure came he started talking about not really being a CL club etc. I think he just misread the whole situation.
 
Tudor has officially been charged by the FA for implying home bias in the Fulham game. If he gets a ban or anything more than a fine we have to seriously call into question what is the point of anything anymore. A clear as day call goes against us, a refusal for anyone in the refereeing side to examine their own failings in that situation compared to what went on the week before, and were punished again. It’s just ridiculous at this point.
 
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