I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

[Spursalot]

Re: Official - Lamela

We did it before they even kicked a ball at Liverpool, at least in Carroll & Downing's case!

Yes, because we'd already seen how poor they had been in the premier league.


The majority of people here had not seen Lamela day in day out in the Italian league. So their opinion of him is formed by his performances for us. People's opinions of Carroll and Downing were formed by their performances for Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Villa.


Is not really a comparable situation.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: Official - Lamela

Yes, because we'd already seen how poor they had been in the premier league.


The majority of people here had not seen Lamela day in day out in the Italian league. So their opinion of him is formed by his performances for us. People's opinions of Carroll and Downing were formed by their performances for Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Villa.


Is not really a comparable situation.

You raise a good point, and possibly even more frustrating. Because as another poster superbly pointed out a few weeks ago, recently there have been hardly any good Serie A exports to the Premiership. Most of them, including the high profile big money ones, have flopped dramatically in recent times. By contrast certain players who looked average have gone there and looked brilliant.

So it is just blind faith from some fans about Lamela because they know so little about him? Or do they really have substance to back up their claims that he is going to be brilliant (and I don't accept his performances in a Spurs shirt prove that he is going to be brilliant. He hasn't been good or bad for us so far.)?

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Official - Lamela

You raise a good point, and possibly even more frustrating. Because as another poster superbly pointed out a few weeks ago, recently there have been hardly any good Serie A exports to the Premiership. Most of them, including the high profile big money ones, have flopped dramatically in recent times. By contrast certain players who looked average have gone there and looked brilliant.

So it is just blind faith from some fans about Lamela because they know so little about him? Or do they really have substance to back up their claims that he is going to be brilliant (and I don't accept his performances in a Spurs shirt prove that he is going to be brilliant. He hasn't been good or bad for us so far.)?

Blind optimism or the ones that have seen more of him are bigging him up.


Me? I think he's shown some good touches, he's shown that he has the eye for a pass too. It's about whether he does it consistently though. Can't really judge him on that until he's played a bit more for us. Part of the problem is that he is seen in the eyes of some as 'bale's replacement', which he is not. Bale's replacements are the number of players we managed to buy with the £85m we sold him for.


Townsend is currently making things happen when he plays, whilst Lamela has looked a little lost at times. Depends on your school of managerial thought really. Do you try and bed him in slowly or throw him in at the deep end and assume if he's talented enough he'll learn to swim?

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

It's because Townsend has played better maybe? Lamela has done OK. If he wasn't so highly rated before he signed for us, or cost so much money for that matter, then I doubt you'd have your current view of him even if he put in identical performances.

For me so far Paulinho & Eriksen have been the stand out purchases. The biggest "meh" for me is Chadli, but he is another who needs time and may come good.

In the Premier League I don't think Townsend has played better overall. Once again, what Lamela has done for us in the PL he's done in less than half a game of football. What Townsend has done in the PL he's done in 5 starts. Townsend has varied in his performances too during those games.

I always think there's a real difference between PL games compared to smaller cup games like the League Cup and EL - especially the early rounds.

I might be biased, but then again you might be too... If Lamela hadn't cost as much money maybe your expectations would have been lower and some of the standout things he's done would have been more appreciated. Whereas if Townsend had cost a ton of money perhaps you would have highlighted more of his errors and overlooked more of his positives as things "a player that cost that much should do". We can all speculate like that, doesn't really get us anywhere.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

You raise a good point, and possibly even more frustrating. Because as another poster superbly pointed out a few weeks ago, recently there have been hardly any good Serie A exports to the Premiership. Most of them, including the high profile big money ones, have flopped dramatically in recent times. By contrast certain players who looked average have gone there and looked brilliant.

So it is just blind faith from some fans about Lamela because they know so little about him? Or do they really have substance to back up their claims that he is going to be brilliant (and I don't accept his performances in a Spurs shirt prove that he is going to be brilliant. He hasn't been good or bad for us so far.)?

How about him making himself a regular in the Argentina national squad at 21? I'd say that carries more weigh than how well previous signings from the Serie A have done in the Premier League.

Who are you talking about as recent high profile Serie A exports to the Premier League by the way?

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: Official - Lamela

How about him making himself a regular in the Argentina national squad at 21? I'd say that carries more weigh than how well previous signings from the Serie A have done in the Premier League.

Who are you talking about as recent high profile Serie A exports to the Premier League by the way?

Don't Brazil and Argentina cap a lot of players?

I can't remember who made the post about other Serie A exports, but it was recent and well worth a read. He backed his opinion up with some very good facts.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Re: Official - Lamela

In the Premier League I don't think Townsend has played better overall. Once again, what Lamela has done for us in the PL he's done in less than half a game of football. What Townsend has done in the PL he's done in 5 starts. Townsend has varied in his performances too during those games.

I always think there's a real difference between PL games compared to smaller cup games like the League Cup and EL - especially the early rounds.

I might be biased, but then again you might be too... If Lamela hadn't cost as much money maybe your expectations would have been lower and some of the standout things he's done would have been more appreciated. Whereas if Townsend had cost a ton of money perhaps you would have highlighted more of his errors and overlooked more of his positives as things "a player that cost that much should do". We can all speculate like that, doesn't really get us anywhere.

Townsend isn't at the fringes of a game, which is unusual for a wide man. He is also very direct. I am not saying Townsend is perfect, but he has been more influential. Lamela did a standard comfortable pass and everyone raved about it. I state again for the record that I think Lamela has superb technique and I am not saying he won't make it or be a bad player. What I am saying is that the adulation I am seeing heaped upon him (and the complete denial of him capable of not doing something right or the way other posters hounded those last night who dared to be critical of him) is somewhat premature.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

Don't Brazil and Argentina cap a lot of players?

I can't remember who made the post about other Serie A exports, but it was recent and well worth a read. He backed his opinion up with some very good facts.

They do, at least for some of their money generating friendlies, but he's been called up again for a couple of qualifying game now in the buildup to next year's world cup. And he plays in positions where Argentina have a ton of quality players.

England also call up a lot of players by the way.

I remember the post, I remember arguing against it even, but I don't remember the recent high profile flops.

Townsend isn't at the fringes of a game, which is unusual for a wide man. He is also very direct. I am not saying Townsend is perfect, but he has been more influential. Lamela did a standard comfortable pass and everyone raved about it. I state again for the record that I think Lamela has superb technique and I am not saying he won't make it or be a bad player. What I am saying is that the adulation I am seeing heaped upon him (and the complete denial of him capable of not doing something right or the way other posters hounded those last night who dared to be critical of him) is somewhat premature.

Are you talking about his assist for Paulinho's goal as the "standard comfortable pass" that everyone raved about? In that case we really don't have much more to talk about at this point. You don't think people would have raved about that if Townsend had done it?

We must have been reading different forums based on what you're describing.

 

[clevelandspur]

Re: Official - Lamela

Townsend isn't at the fringes of a game, which is unusual for a wide man. He is also very direct. I am not saying Townsend is perfect, but he has been more influential. Lamela did a standard comfortable pass and everyone raved about it. I state again for the record that I think Lamela has superb technique and I am not saying he won't make it or be a bad player. What I am saying is that the adulation I am seeing heaped upon him (and the complete denial of him capable of not doing something right or the way other posters hounded those last night who dared to be critical of him) is somewhat premature.

Couldn't agree more, Townsend has been our most constant attacking threat all season would be madness to bench him for Lamela at this point.

 

[NWND]

Re: Official - Lamela

Thing for me is that Lamela obviously has a high basic technical ability. There are raw materials there to work with. He's still pretty raw though. He makes good decisions sometimes, but poor decisions other times. For every good touch/decision he is making at the moment he's following up with a bad one 5 minutes later.

There is just "something about him" though, that all those great players have. I'm not sure what it is, but a Man Utd fan told me that when Ronaldo first went there he was a bit of a show-pony and for every player he beat he lost the ball. It took quite a bit of moulding to get him really firing but there was always just that something about him from day one.

Not saying Lamela will be as good as Ronaldo, but obviously he has some good basic tools and ability the coaches can work with.

Its really up to him to put in the hard graft and listen to what he's being told (without losing that natural off-the-cuff ability) and constantly develop himself. I could also compare him to Bale in that there is someone that started off with a high basic ability but was still a bit error prone and powder-puff at times, who developed his game constantly and kept improving to turn himself into a football beast.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Lamela develops. He's got something about him, even when he's looking a bit average (if that makes sense). Just something about the way he moves and touches the ball. It could all go pear-shaped, but it gives me confidence that he can translate what he did in Italy, into what he can do in England given time.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: Official - Lamela

There is just "something about him" though, that all those great players have.

For me it's the combination of close control/technical ability with a lot of composure. The way some players can square up to opponents and you can see that most defenders won't even try to tackle them even if they completely stop and put their foot on the ball. The ease they create that little bit of space to find a pass. The ability to look up between touches even when running at pace in crowded areas. The elegance, the self absurdness.

I disagree with you on decision making though. He looks mature for his age and for being completely new to the team. Yes he loses possession at times by being adventurous and looking for the creative pass, but he's shown a good balance between patience and those ambitious balls for me at least. Looks a team player, not someone looking to impress everyone with their skills or tricks the way Ronaldo looked at first.

 

[sc25]

Re: Official - Lamela

From what little we've seen thus far, he needs time. So then the question for me is, what exactly was their intent and purpose when buying him at this time, and what are/were their expectations of him for this season?

So lets say it wasn't necessarily to provide instant impact/production, but rather for the future. (And at 30 mil, they must be expecting a HUGE future).

That being the case, it might pose a dilemma cos its not easy to always get him the playing time he needs to develop when you are supposedly chasing the title/Top 4 and need to field your strongest eleven.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Official - Lamela

i think people are reading way too much in to what we have seen/not seen from Lamela so far - he's barely played 90 minutes total for us in The Prem combined with a couple of outings in the 'lesser' cups. not everyone comes in and is comfortable slotting in to a new team (in a new country where he doesn't speak the language) straight away.

he's a player that has been first choice in Italy for two seasons running and a couple of seasons prior to that in Argentina - once he acclimatizes to his new surroundings he'll no doubt be starting for us regularly and im confident he'll perform to the required level. a big reason we paid such a huge price is because of his supposed potential - but Im sure he also has the ability now to be playing in a team chasing top 4, he might not have shown it in the few minutes he has played so far, but you know...different players settle quicker than others. no need to be over analyzing him at this point (IMV)

 

[skyfarer]

Re: Official - Lamela

I remember Roma fans saying he looked completely lost in pre-season, a totally different player because his head wasn't right - he really, really needs time to settle into England. Just look at Holtby - he's taken pretty much exactly the 7-8 months Wenger says foreign players need to adapt, and now has started returning to form. Remember that Holtby said that the big issue is that the PL gives you so little time on the ball, even compared to Germany ... so you can only imagine the difference to Italy and Argentina. And like Holtby, Lamela is a player who is really dependent on familiarity with his teammate's runs; just look at how constantly his head is swiveling around to check where everyone is.

The other thing is that Lamela, like Eriksen, seems to have a very "cushioned" pass. On a perfect pitch those are the easiest to control and switch direction without an extra touch, but on a rough pitch they will end up underhit. (In contrast, I think Sandro, Paulinho, and Townsend tend to hit it a bit hard.) Remember Erik's first turnover was an attempted throughball that got intercepted, and then immediately afterwards he stopped playing it on the ground and started lobbing/floating it instead - but those passes are slower and easier to read for the opposition, so they kept getting intercepted. My guess is that AVB is encouraging him to be more ambitious and expressive, and by nature he's a one-touch player so he kept wanting to play the one-touch or risky pass when given the circumstances he should've been taking some time to actually control the ball first and measure the pass.

Ah well, he'll learn. Fortunately he'll probably never experience such a ****ty pitch again. The big thing for me is that Lamela has to adapt to the speed of the tackling in this league - they just give you no time on the ball here. He doesn't need to start imo, just keep coming on for the last third of our league games with a remit to work hard in defense and express himself in attack. If he makes mistakes and loses the ball, quite frankly I don't mind, I just don't want fear to creep into him; Townsend is already a brash player by nature so he could do with more temperance, but Lamela is careful so he needs more of a "don't worry, just **** 'em up" kinda advice.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Re: Official - Lamela

Yes, especially if the price is high. Look at the **** we give Liverpool for their signings. The signings weren't bad signings, but they were bad signings at that price.

They were awful signings regardless of price!!! Henderson, Carroll and Adam?!??!

 

[Mumorn]

Re: Official - Lamela

Henderson isnt bad though.

Worth £20m? **** no, but he's a good player.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Re: Official - Lamela

Lamela and Soldado might need more time as I don't think either were that desperate to come here. Paulinho and Eriksen clearly wanted their moves and that might be a reason they look better so far.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Re: Official - Lamela

For me it's the combination of close control/technical ability with a lot of composure. The way some players can square up to opponents and you can see that most defenders won't even try to tackle them even if they completely stop and put their foot on the ball. The ease they create that little bit of space to find a pass. The ability to look up between touches even when running at pace in crowded areas. The elegance, the self absurdness.

Yeah, almost his first touch in his debut when he came off the bench (I forget the team we were playing) was a weird stud roll on the ball and shimmy where the ball was not even close to him and the three defenders all stood off him as if spellbound.

 

[metalgear]

Re: Official - Lamela

Lamela and Soldado might need more time as I don't think either were that desperate to come here. Paulinho and Eriksen clearly wanted their moves and that might be a reason they look better so far.

might be that... but might be a whole host of other factors e.g. playing style, personality, food, missing home etc.
always a risk with foreign players; forlan for man U comes to mind.

 

[skyfarer]

Re: Official - Lamela

Lamela and Soldado might need more time as I don't think either were that desperate to come here. Paulinho and Eriksen clearly wanted their moves and that might be a reason they look better so far.

I think it's more of a style and physicality issue. Paulinho has really insane energy levels which is perfect for our system and came here off of a very successful Confed Cup on a high, while Eriksen was also on a roll with Ajax and has played a bazillion different games so he comes with a wealth of experience compared to Lamela. The French league isn't so great, but Capoue reportedly broke our records in his medical - he's a very technical player, but also really physically blessed. You could say the same for Chadli.

Meanwhile, Lamela and Soldado barely had real pre-seasons and are both smaller, nimbler players. They're the signings who are most wedded to the fast, fluid, counterattacking kind of game, with both far more used to playing on the fast break, which rewards sublime touches and intelligent runs with greater space. In comparison, we rarely play on the break, we're more methodical and possession-oriented like Ajax and I'm not sure if Lamela and Soldado are familiar with the pressing game or how to face such deep defenses. Chiriches will also have a tough learning curve since the teams are more punishing here.

All of our newbies would really benefit from developing greater familiarity with their team-mates ... remember that even our most PL-experienced, happily settled players struggled to adapt to AVB's system at first, it took us half a season just to figure out the defensive/ pressing side, and we never actually managed to click in attack. Keep in mind how many we have to integrate besides just the Bale Seven, with Rose and Townsend new to our team too; we're practically an entirely transformed team, with players coming from all over the world, from all different leagues, from vastly different playing styles. We need time to adapt to this league and to each other. I can't believe people want us to out-perform Arsenal, an incredibly settled side with a long-established manager and style who only needed to add one class player, within six games.