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Hugo Lloris

ArcspacE said:
Selecting a-contextual little quotes is really grand - great contribution to this debate, mate
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Yeah, thanks. It's about as great as labeling people who don't agree with you the "anti-Lloris mob".

You clearly don't apply the same analysis to Hugo as you do Brad, you seem desperate to make a case that Brad needs dropping by picking up any and all errors, and will give no credit to him for anything good he's done for us, while at the same time excusing any mistake Hugo makes.

Hugo gets massive credit (7/10... only clean sheet...) for a home game against a weak Villa side - who should still have scored through Benteke, if he hadn't muffed it - yet Brad gets no credit for keeping us level against Wigan while they overran us in the first half the other week (straight at him, etc etc).
 
NWND said:
He'd achieve that by doing every single thing you could conceivably ask of him while winning us points in these games with oustanding saves.

Unfortunately he didn't cover himself in glory in us getting knocked out by Norwich in the League Cup and in the Europa League he fudged up against Maribor and didn't look comfortable on a couple of occasions with crosses in the Maribor home game as well as some of the other Europa games he's played in.

His one start in the PL was decent no problems, but it was against an extremely unadventurous Aston Villa team and i'm afraid decent isn't any better than Freidel, therefore Freidel is the no 1 and remains so until Loris proves he's better.
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Taking 7 seconds to get down for low placed shots? What are you on about? Are you talking about actual goals or just making a general observation? Many keepers get caught-out by low-drilled shots, infact its one fo the best ways to score against a keeper, drill it low, because keepers are often tall guys and struggle to get down low quickly. Some of the best keepers compensate by using their feet. Schmeichel was actually pretty good at blocking with his feet and I saw De Gea doing this to good effect the other week. Freidel isn't in this top-class bracket, but neither is Lloris going on evidence thus far.

Nani goal - what goal is this? We've played Man U once this season and as far as I can recall neither goal they scored was down to keeper error? If its a goal conceeded before this season its kind of irrelevant when it comes to LLoris' quest to out-do Freidel for the no 1 slot this season.

Dzeko's shot - yes i'm sure many keepers COULD have saved that, just as many striker's COULD have scored Ibra's goal last night. Football is about chance sometimes as much as skill and its those momentary decisions and perfect executions that decide the tightest of games. On his day Freidel reacts lighning fast and gets lucky with his elbow or head or something and blocks the shot.

Freidel is capable fo lightning quick super-saves, I remember the league match against Fulham last season at the cottage where they absolutely battered us but we somehow won 3-1, Freidel made several saves where you thought how the fudge has he got to that ... it happens sometimes. Keepers have good games, amazing games, poor games and average games as do all players.
 
Seedy Ron said:
Yeah, thanks. It's about as great as labeling people who don't agree with you the "anti-Lloris mob".

You clearly don't apply the same analysis to Hugo as you do Brad, you seem desperate to make a case that Brad needs dropping by picking up any and all errors, and will give no credit to him for anything good he's done for us, while at the same time excusing any mistake Hugo makes.

Hugo gets massive credit (7/10... only clean sheet...) for a home game against a weak Villa side - who should still have scored through Benteke, if he hadn't muffed it - yet Brad gets no credit for keeping us level against Wigan while they overran us in the first half the other week (straight at him, etc etc).
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So now Hugo's opponents were 'weak' Villa so that's another game in which we can't give him credit, right? When would it be ok to do so?

I must have missed the PL behemoths QPR, WBA, Norwich, and Wigan whom Brad all kept at bay? Oh, wait

And then I'm the one who uses selective analysis
 
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NWND said:
Taking 7 seconds to get down for low placed shots? What are you on about? Are you talking about actual goals or just making a general observation? Many keepers get caught-out by low-drilled shots, infact its one fo the best ways to score against a keeper, drill it low, because keepers are often tall guys and struggle to get down low quickly. Some of the best keepers compensate by using their feet. Schmeichel was actually pretty good at blocking with his feet and I saw De Gea doing this to good effect the other week. Freidel isn't in this top-class bracket, but neither is Lloris going on evidence thus far.
.
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He is 25 years old - if you're only judging on the bricky few games he's been thrown so far and haven't seen him elsewhere - you're doing him massive disservice

NWND said:
Nani goal - what goal is this? We've played Man U once this season and as far as I can recall neither goal they scored was down to keeper error? If its a goal conceeded before this season its kind of irrelevant when it comes to LLoris' quest to out-do Freidel for the no 1 slot this season..
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You asked for Brad's errors - I listed them. If you don't like them or choose to ignore - that's another story.

NWND said:
Dzeko's shot - yes i'm sure many keepers COULD have saved that, just as many striker's COULD have scored Ibra's goal last night. Football is about chance sometimes as much as skill and its those momentary decisions and perfect executions that decide the tightest of games. On his day Freidel reacts lighning fast and gets lucky with his elbow or head or something and blocks the shot..
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Yes - and many keepers could have caught Holt's header - right? I mean you attributed that as a massive error for Hugo - while Brad's similar fudge up you're quick to disregard. Why so?

NWND said:
Freidel is capable fo lightning quick super-saves, I remember the league match against Fulham last season at the cottage where they absolutely battered us but we somehow won 3-1, Freidel made several saves where you thought how the fudge has he got to that ... it happens sometimes. Keepers have good games, amazing games, poor games and average games as do all players.
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Yes, he had a great game, last season - what is your point? Lloris saved a penalty against Spain few weeks ago. But we are talking about showing superior form to Lloris this season in order to guarantee his place - something he hasn't done at the moment, imv
 
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Seedy Ron said:
You clearly don't apply the same analysis to Hugo as you do Brad, you seem desperate to make a case that Brad needs dropping by picking up any and all errors, and will give no credit to him for anything good he's done for us, while at the same time excusing any mistake Hugo makes.
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That is not true in the slightest

Let me put it this way - bearing in mind both keepers are fighting for the shirt at the moment - on what grounds/justification would you give Brad the spot over Lloris on Saturday?

It can't be statistsically - that's for sure but those would be automatically discredited as evidence - so what is the rationale here?
 
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ArcspacE said:
So now Hugo's opponents were 'weak' Villa so that's another game in which we can't give him credit, right? When would it be ok to do so?

I must have missed the PL behemoths QPR, WBA, Norwich, and Wigan whom Brad all kept at bay? Oh, wait

And then I'm the one who uses selective analysis
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I've never said don't give him any credit, I was just pointing out that you'll clearly overlook the quality of the opposition or the quality of their performance, or you'll take them into consideration completely, all depending on who actually plays, in order to fit your agenda.

Your claim of objectivity is entirely hollow.
 
Seedy Ron said:
I've never said don't give him any credit, I was just pointing out that you'll clearly overlook the quality of the opposition or the quality of their performance, or you'll take them into consideration completely, all depending on who actually plays, in order to fit your agenda.

Your claim of objectivity is entirely hollow.
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Eh?

I don't overlook the quality of opposition - there are no easy PL games as proven countelss of times. Yourself and others tend to label certain games and opponents 'easy'

However - you just made an argument yourself than his opponents were 'weak' yet against similar calibre opposition Brad didn't fare so well. So - the criteria has to be even or none at all - a point which I attempted to explain earlier to Jezus buddy but he's gone now. I think you're actually funny guy, so don't fail me now ;)
 
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ArcspacE said:
That is not true in the slightest

Let me put it this way - bearing in mind both keepers are fighting for the shirt at the moment - on what grounds/justification would you give Brad the spot over Lloris at the moment?

It can't be statistsically - that's for sure but those would be automatically discredited as evidence - so what is the rationale here?
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My rationale is that I don't feel that in any of the games Brad has played I'd hold him responsible for us not having won, and I think that in every game he's given us the chance to win, which to me is what I'd ask of a goalkeeper. I also think he's made some top class saves across various performances.

By saying that, I'm not saying that Hugo hasn't, or wouldn't, provide the same level, but Brad is in and is doing it, so by virtue of merit he retains the place. If AVB sees something in training that suggests Hugo should play, then I'd hope he goes with that, what I want is for Spurs to get the best goalkeeping that we can have, and I don't feel that Brad is currently letting us down on that front.

I'll never convince you otherwise Arc, so there's little point arguing it.
 
How many of you who are saying that Friedel is past it etc were wanting a keeper in the summer? There werent many grumblings in the summer about us needing a new keeper.

I am not in any camp but having Lloris we should play him but im not getting angry he isnt as I dont think Friedel is doing anything wrong or too wrong.
 
DHSF said:
How many of you who are saying that Friedel is past it etc were wanting a keeper in the summer? There werent many grumblings in the summer about us needing a new keeper.

I am not in any camp but having Lloris we should play him but im not getting angry he isnt as I dont think Friedel is doing anything wrong or too wrong.
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Pretty much my feelings as well.
 
DHSF said:
How many of you who are saying that Friedel is past it etc were wanting a keeper in the summer? There werent many grumblings in the summer about us needing a new keeper.

I am not in any camp but having Lloris we should play him but im not getting angry he isnt as I dont think Friedel is doing anything wrong or too wrong.
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I was pro Butland or a young keeper like that to act as understudy for a season.


Camp stuff is crap. I actually want LLoris to play it's just the people trying to justifying it are making stuff up quite a bit of the time.
 
I just can't understand why we pay , what was it £ 8-10m ?, to have him as a number 2. We already have Cudicini & Gomes as very able understudies for a keeper who has not missed a league match in years . In my opinion you don't buy the number one French keeper to bench him . Surely AVB must not have wanted him , if you pay that money for undoubted talent he is bought as the number 1.
 
The only explanation remains - he wants to set an example within the squad - anyone can fight for a place and no clear favourites as previously
 
ArcspacE said:
The only explanation remains - he wants to set an example within the squad - anyone can fight for a place and no clear favourites as previously
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Do you think that it is possible that he doesn't fancy him and that the club bought him because they thought it was good business?
 
ArcspacE said:
The only explanation remains - he wants to set an example within the squad - anyone can fight for a place and no clear favourites as previously
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The only explanation, barring the numerous other explanations that have been presented to you.
 
milo said:
Do you think that it is possible that he doesn't fancy him and that the club bought him because they thought it was good business?
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No - personally I don't buy that for one second. Especially seeing how players such as Dempsey, Gallas, and Walker a regulars despite poor form - I'd say he'd give everyone a fair chance.
 
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