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Hillsborough Disaster

Hillsborough Inquests: First question is Basic Facts: Did 96 people die as a result of the disaster due to crushing in central pens? Yes.

Hillsborough Inquests: Question 2: Was there any error or omission in police planning and preparation for the semi final? Yes

Hillsborough Inquests: Q3: Any errors or omission in policing which caused or contributed to dangerous situation outside turnstiles? Yes

Hillsborough Inquests: Question 4: Any error or omission by commanding officers which caused or contributed to the deaths? Yes

Hillsborough Inquests: Q5: Any error or omission by commanding officers when order was given to open exit gates? Yes, failed to close tunnel

Hillsborough Inquests: The jury has just determined that the 96 people who died WERE unlawfully killed.

Hillsborough Inquests: Q7: Jury has ruled there was NO behaviour by football supporters which caused or contributed to the disaster.
 
Jordinho said:
Hillsborough Inquests: Q7: Jury has ruled there was NO behaviour by football supporters which caused or contributed to the disaster.
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That is a strange one, did the police make a mistake opening the gates YES was there anything the fans did that caused or contributed, surely the answer is YES, form an orderly queue and WALK in to the stadium surely that would have eased the problem a bit.

But yeah I agree witGrays above, they've got what they wanted from the inquiry, let's all move on now please.
 
milo said:
It is amazing the lengths that people will go to to stick by their preconceptions. The inquiry has been lengthy and thorough, isn't it just possible that the jury have reached a sound decision after having access to and considering more evidence than any of us have?
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Indeed; the Hillsborough tragedy could have been us a few years earlier as many have said previously. I think our disdain for Liverpool fans and their delusions of grandeur shouldn't trump our compassion for families of fans who died and were then labelled for many years clearly unfairly as 'murderers' by corrupt police and likely a corrupt state (aka Thatcher).
Basically, that could have been us!
 
glorygloryeze said:
Indeed; the Hillsborough tragedy could have been us a few years earlier as many have said previously. I think our disdain for Liverpool fans and their delusions of grandeur shouldn't trump our compassion for families of fans who died and were then labelled for many years clearly unfairly as 'murderers' by corrupt police and likely a corrupt state (aka Thatcher).
Basically, that could have been us!
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But it never was because we're not scousers! I joke, of course ;)
 
glorygloryeze said:
Indeed; the Hillsborough tragedy could have been us a few years earlier as many have said previously. I think our disdain for Liverpool fans and their delusions of grandeur shouldn't trump our compassion for families of fans who died and were then labelled for many years clearly unfairly as 'murderers' by corrupt police and likely a corrupt state (aka Thatcher).
Basically, that could have been us!
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The whole thing was a shocking cover-up, even given the attitude of the powers that be towards football fans at the time and after. Football fans were often treated appallingly in those days and citing hooliganism as the reason is not sufficient justification in itself.
Regardless of what some might think of liverpool fans (and they are my 2nd most hated team/fans behind the scum), the actions of the police on that day led to the deaths of 96 people, and accountability is needed. The fact that it has taken so long is appalling.

Having said that I do hope this will now hasten the end of the annual tv coverage of the Hillsborough anniversary and the expectations that we all have to carry forever more the grief of those that were involved, (and I do have compassion for them). I fear however this will continue for more years. Does the outcome of the inquest now lay the ground for any prosecutions?
 
glorygloryeze said:
Indeed; the Hillsborough tragedy could have been us a few years earlier as many have said previously. I think our disdain for Liverpool fans and their delusions of grandeur shouldn't trump our compassion for families of fans who died and were then labelled for many years clearly unfairly as 'murderers' by corrupt police and likely a corrupt state (aka Thatcher).
Basically, that could have been us!
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Totally agree, I find it distasteful that many people on this site can take such an inhuman stance on this tradegy. Please try to look beyond childish dislikes of a football club and see what was being done in your name by the authorities.
 
Grays_1890 said:
I get the feeling this is everyone's effort to just give people what they want, now maybe after so long we get to put the whole boring subject to bed.
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This. Any other result just would have ended up in years more earache and whining.

I see it as a "Here's what you want, now STFU for once"
 
milo said:
It is amazing the lengths that people will go to to stick by their preconceptions. The inquiry has been lengthy and thorough, isn't it just possible that the jury have reached a sound decision after having access to and considering more evidence than any of us have?
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It would have been reputational suicide to come up with any other result. So, from the outside, we'll never know.

The laws of averages will tell you there's no way every scouser was innocent, just as not every policeman was guilty.
 
milo said:
It is amazing the lengths that people will go to to stick by their preconceptions. The inquiry has been lengthy and thorough, isn't it just possible that the jury have reached a sound decision after having access to and considering more evidence than any of us have?
Click to expand...

every single football match in the 80's was attended by a group of fans behaving like clams and endangering those around them

it could indeed have been Spurs fans in that situation, we had plenty of clams back then too

football fans behaving like grown adults is a very very recent phenomenon
 
milo said:
It is amazing the lengths that people will go to to stick by their preconceptions. The inquiry has been lengthy and thorough, isn't it just possible that the jury have reached a sound decision after having access to and considering more evidence than any of us have?
Click to expand...

No. It's Liverpool fans so this report must be complete gonad*s. Get with the programme Milo.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Totally agree, I find it distasteful that many people on this site can take such an inhuman stance on this tradegy. Please try to look beyond childish dislikes of a football club and see what was being done in your name by the authorities.
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Me too. But that's football for you. It's tribal to such a degree that some lose all sense of decency and respect because a team wears another coloured shirt to them. Not even just thick chavs who like to kick people up in the air before games because they support a rival club to them, it's educated people who should really know better and have no excuse such as bad parenting, or maybe it is bad parenting.
 
So after all this money and effort we 'now' know that "officially" people made mistakes that lead to 96 people's death.
Sorry but most people if not everybody knew this twenty odd years ago. Stupid fences where the main contributor to these deaths and came about due to bad supporter behaviour at the time.

I hope all the families now have some form or peace and closure.
 
The one thing the questions don't ask is who was responsible for Hillsborough hosting the game. It was taken off the list after our incident in 1981, but was reinstated, without an updated safety certificate and with more dangerous pens (no side gates). Even after minor incidents in 1987 and 1988 it was host again in 1989.

The people who made this decision - those at the FA, at SWFC and Sheffield Council, and possibly others - seem to be ignored in casting blame. Lots of mistakes were made on the day, but they were made by police, SWFC staff and ambulance people making poor judgements in a situation they wouldn't have faced if the decision to play hadn't been made. This is why people died.

The police cover-up afterwards was criminal and should have led to more prosecutions, but this is a separate issue from the cause of the deaths. The anger over this shouldn't affect the apportionment of blame to those making mistakes that led to the deaths.
 
milo said:
It is amazing the lengths that people will go to to stick by their preconceptions. The inquiry has been lengthy and thorough, isn't it just possible that the jury have reached a sound decision after having access to and considering more evidence than any of us have?
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Ok lets get it all right here

This isnt about Liverpool this is about whats right and wrong. Some guy leaves court today, one man with 96 deaths on his head whilst thousands of ticketless people get away scott free.

Easy to blame one than work harder to actually work on whats right and wrong.

No fans without tickets, no Hillsborough....thats a fact

No violence in football, no cages in the 80s ....thats a fact

Blaming a copper for what went on when he was under total pressure, pressure bought about by fans without tickets is like blaming a security guard in NYC for 9/11

The scousers want blood, thats how it is, this isnt even going to give them what they want, and I know because my best mates a die hard and knows how I feel and this is just a spring board for more action....you wait
 
milo said:
It is amazing the lengths that people will go to to stick by their preconceptions. The inquiry has been lengthy and thorough, isn't it just possible that the jury have reached a sound decision after having access to and considering more evidence than any of us have?
Click to expand...

Totally agree with Milo. What is boring is people constantly referring to this issue as boring or needing to be put to bed. Bascially, we were lucky it wasn't us 8 years prior, some of you guys would have been there. Have some empathy for GHod's sake. The verdict has been handed down and that is the right one according to a Jury that has been listening to more of the facts than we will ever know over a 2 year period. If you don't believe that the covering up of this is criminal then something is wrong imo.

No one here is aware of how many fans were ticketless and regardless of that point the fact of the matter is that a number of processes in place were not robust enough or made in the correct manner to prevent the disaster happening. If you want to be so matter a fact about it then basically it should just be levied at the person who decided Hillsborough should be an FA Cup semi final venue.

Numerous errors were made. No one is stating the police intended to kill anyone but they did contribute with poor decision making, under pressure or not. That is what they are there for - to make correct decisions and if they fail to do that then they are accountable to some degree as unfortunate as that may be.
 
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