Guglielmo Vicario

[Bedfordspurs]

Some people are playing favourites because they want to deflect the blame off of a particular player. I don't even think it's something to overly focus on, it was a mistake it happens, it will happen again. As I said earlier if we want to play progressive passing football part of that includes passing from the back. It's a risky play style but it's one we want so there are downfalls to go with it.

100%
We have scored from forcing these mistakes and concede from them too like all sides

 

[parklane1]

Some people are playing favourites because they want to deflect the blame off of a particular player. I don't even think it's something to overly focus on, it was a mistake it happens, it will happen again. As I said earlier if we want to play progressive passing football part of that includes passing from the back. It's a risky play style but it's one we want so there are downfalls to go with it.

Indeed.

 

[thfcsteff]

Both players have to take part blame for what happened, seems to me that there are those who are attacking one player over the other. Both could and should have done better.

I'll stand up and honestly say that yes, I think the greater onus is on Vicario to make the right initial decision. Gray obviously gets caught on the ball and that is an error. I don't think the error ever needed to be in place to happen.

 

[parklane1]

Ifs,buts and maybes, one thing is sure BOTH players have to accept they made the wrong decision.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I've noticed many other keepers, up and down various leagues, all over the world, 'gonading' other players for a while.
(Which would assume I know for sure that 'gonading' is what they are actually doing. Which, I don't).
Optics aside, like it or not, a safer assumption (for me) is that its commonplace in football today, stemming from numerous managers, coaches, goalkeeper coaches, and so on.

He usually only picks on the younger players like Gray. Whereas Schmeichel used to do it to everyone. Difference is he was one of the best in his era. Certainly up there with the best PL keepers. Vicario is an average keeper. Not one of the worst but nowhere near the best.

 

[mudshark]

I agreed with Carragher's take. Even if Vicario hadn't played it to Gray's weaker foot and he'd managed to pop it off first time, where was he going to go with it, other than to Romero or van de Ven, either of whom Vicario could have passed to more safely in the first place—instead of inviting the press on Gray.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

Passing to Gray draws in attackers and thus when Gray passes to Romero or VdV they have more time and space.

 

[mudshark]

Passing to Gray draws in attackers and thus when Gray passes to Romero or VdV they have more time and space.

That sounds great if you say it real fast, but the idea only makes sense if the movement triggered in said attackers draws them towards Gray and away from the other two, rather than closer to all three of them (and more importantly, as it turns out, to our goal). I think, in this particular scenario, the earlier one of the CBs could have received the ball, the better (and, what's more, that Vicario ought to have read that.)

 

[harr1984]

I agreed with Carragher's take. Even if Vicario hadn't played it to Gray's weaker foot and he'd managed to pop it off first time, where was he going to go with it, other than to Romero or van de Ven, either of whom Vicario could have passed to more safely in the first place—instead of inviting the press on Gray.

The whole point is to invite the press. I don't know how many times this has to be said, we've done the same pattern a hundred times this season and it's hardly been discussed because the error wasn't made. It's pointless trying to dissect it on the odd occasion it goes wrong, the whole reason coaches do this is for risk and reward. There are going to be times this happens, whether you agree with it or not that's how coaches (and definitely not just Frank but other clubs too) see it....

 

[mudshark]

The whole point is to invite the press. I don't know how many times this has to be said, we've done the same pattern a hundred times this season and it's hardly been discussed because the error wasn't made. It's pointless trying to dissect it on the odd occasion it goes wrong, the whole reason coaches do this is for risk and reward. There are going to be times this happens, whether you agree with it or not that's how coaches (and definitely not just Frank but other clubs too) see it....

I accept that's the case. At the same time, I don't think we're at a stage of being press-resistant enough to be taking those sorts of risks 20 yards from goal. Far from it.

 

[Bishop]

I accept that's the case. At the same time, I don't think we're at a stage of being press-resistant enough to be taking those sorts of risks 20 yards from goal. Far from it.

I'm somewhere between the two of you. We have to take the risk because it's the basis of trying to play passing football, but it's also a massive risk at the same time because we are neither particularly press resistant nor is the quality of the choice of passing high. We are basically trying a lofty ideal that the players aren't truly capable of doing consistently.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Passing to Gray draws in attackers and thus when Gray passes to Romero or VdV they have more time and space.

Exactly this. The pass is to someone who is marked on purpose. You'll see the same pass many times. Not sure Vic is to blame, Gray shouldn't of taken a touch. Anyone slagging off Vic, just wants to slag off Vic, and is a grass is greener type.

 

[harr1984]

I'm somewhere between the two of you. We have to take the risk because it's the basis of trying to play passing football, but it's also a massive risk at the same time because we neither particularly press resistant nor is quality of the choice of passing high. We are basically trying a lofty ideal that the players aren't truly capable of doing consistently.

I agree, my problem is that this shouldn't be in the Vicario thread - this is something that should be directed at the coaches. Vicario is following instruction on how to play here. There are things that can firmly be laid at Vicario's door, this isn't one of them....

 

[mudshark]

I'm somewhere between the two of you. We have to take the risk because it's the basis of trying to play passing football, but it's also a massive risk at the same time because we are neither particularly press resistant nor is the quality of the choice of passing high. We are basically trying a lofty ideal that the players aren't truly capable of doing consistently.

I don't think any of us are on different pages, really. As I said in an earlier post, though, there's risk, and there's stupid risk. I'm not necessarily against the former.

 

[DeanoAustin]

The whole point is to invite the press. I don't know how many times this has to be said, we've done the same pattern a hundred times this season and it's hardly been discussed because the error wasn't made. It's pointless trying to dissect it on the odd occasion it goes wrong, the whole reason coaches do this is for risk and reward. There are going to be times this happens, whether you agree with it or not that's how coaches (and definitely not just Frank but other clubs too) see it....

Exactly this x 1000. I see Vicario, and other keepers, play this pass a half dozen times each game and I've never once seen anyone criticise those passes because 99% of the time, they get bounced first time without incident. In this instance it didn't happen because Gray made a mess of it. He's young so I wouldn't go too hard on him but it's his mistake for me.

My belief is that because Gray is very well liked here (and rightly so) and Vicario gets a mixed reaction, that's colouring people's views.