Indeed. Sanchez is our most expensive signing and we got him in nice and early so it’s quite obvious that each transfer has its own scenario it’s not simply Levy leaving it until last minute....
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Grealish
- Thread starter harr1984
- Start date
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Folks are still trying to guess what Poch actually meant when he said being brave, No one knows ( except Poch) but it does not stop some using it to dig at Levy. Sad folks when they can not look past the rush to blame Levy for our ills ( so called) As for Grealish it could not have been done weeks ago as some have blamed Levy for, nothing could be done while takeover talks were goin on.
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
We made all of our signings last summer after the season had started. Other top clubs don’t do that and I’d be fairly confident it’s exactly what Poch wanted us to stop doing when he said “be brave”.
Yet 12 months later we are in the same position...
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Its not about how well they have done for us, but them at the point of sale. Moura came to Europe for a bloody fortune, with a huge reputation, and impressed for PSG (for whom he was a real coup). Thats a big player, the sort of player Liverpool/Utd etc would like. And it took us all of January to negotiate to get him in, and even then - I wager half the delay was waiting on other interest before he accepted the move here.
NJie, Nkoudou, Alli, Dier - AT THE PONT OF SALE - were all punts. Cheap players, with potential, who we bought with the intention to put them in the squad and see if they can develop into a first team player. They were outright gambles compared to the like of Son/Moura and their prices reflect this,
£5m-£15m. Speculation.
Grealish falls in to that speculative category, yet you want to blow £35m on him. And for what? "Getting it done early". And for what? So a project player can have preseason with us. You see why this situation doesnt have the gravity you are giving it?
We dont have a stadium sponsor yet, so are missing out on a huge revenue stream that will no doubt go a long way to paying off the costs of the stadium. Without that, with us taking the burden alone - you want us to just start spending unearned money in advance?
Being brave can mean anything. One thing it wont mean with Spurs is also being stupid.
Its something of a cartoon of Levy really, not as true as people assume it to be.
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
We got Sanchez nearly a week after the season had started. Far from nice and early.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Way to leave out the entire point of listing the individual players.
"All our business" was:
Sanchez (in early)
And then late:
Gazzaniga, Foyth - not even first team players
Llorente - back up striker who barely featured
Aurier - back up RB.
So, really, not one major or key buy. All squad bodies. So, really, no drama.
Just as with this season. We start the season with a fudging strong and settled team. Its not a drama.
Yes, I fully agree, it is preferable to get everyone in and settled ASAP.
I also think, Kovacic this week (for example) is much more preferable to a Drinkwater back in July.
So if you have to compromise, what do you choose?
I choose maximum talent, even if late.
It appears you choose "Anyone, no matter how expensive, so long as its early".
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I thought it was earlier but point still stands. If all Levy does is penny pinch when spending a record fee on someone you’d think he’d be trying to bargain it down until the final hours. I love the fact he doesn’t ever dignify the complaints about the way we go about transfers or justify it - he knows what to do far better than anyone on here....
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
You’re spinning. Every time you’ve mentioned Grealish being a punt, you’ve mentioned Nkoudou and N’Jie. There’s a certain perception of those players which is very different from Alli and Dier who were also punts.
I’ve also never said “spend 35m on Grealish.” That’s what Villa reportedly want. We’d probably get him for 30m which isn’t an unfair price in this market.
We’ll get a stadium sponsor. That’s not in doubt. We can take a risk and spend against it now or be completely risk averse and wait for the money to land in the bank regardless of the consequences.
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
I took the last window. Sanchez wasn’t in early, it was 5 days after we played Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Aurier also wasn’t signed as a back up right full and we chased him for a long time.
Getting Grealish done early means you can move on to your next target and focus your energy there. It also gives him a chance to settle and integrate. It also means the manager isn’t answering question over the last few weeks about things he isn’t responsible for and that are clearly irking him.
No one would say Drinkwater early is better than Kovacic late. That’s a strawman. What I’m saying is identify your targets and get your business done early at a reasonable price and move on to the next one. Like the other big clubs have done.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Im not spinning anything, Im trying to offer context. You put forward Alli etc - I included them in my response, because they didnt change the context at all.
What exactly do you wan then? Because you are consistently complaining about us not spending enough and leaving it late - how else am I supposed to interpret that?
The stadium? Lets be honest - who would go spending against unearned revenues? Not many! I remember Everton gambling on future ST sales, and it set them back for years in the market.
Its not "taking a little risk", as you might like to think. Its fudging with major things, and most importantly the future of the club. A miss-step now could set us back years.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Sanchez was in early enough to play bloody well right off the bat, we lost nothing in buying him when we did. Its a non-story.
Trippier had the shirt, we needed competition for him. We got it. Again, the timing isnt that big of a problem as you like to think.
And I say this as someone who would have loved to get all our deals done on the opening day of the window.
Drinkwater/Kovacic is not a straw man, it illustrates things perfectly. I put this in another thread, but it fits here (and hate to be that sort of clown shoe who quotes himself)
Look at Kovacic. £80m at the beginning of the window (reported). most likely out of our price range, but assuming we tried - City, Liverpool, Utd can all come in and gazump us.
Now? All have spent big on midfielders, and his price is £53-60 (reported) as Madrid need to move him on.
We may/may not get him - but I think its very obvious why we would wait. Its either look for a situation like this, or buy whatever we can at the beginning of the window which I am certain wouldnt be as appealing/talented.
Lets assume Kovacic is a target, maybe he is, maybe he isnt -but he works well in this conversation.
In your world, we identify him as a target, and get him done early at a reasonable price. How exactly does that work, given the above?
And heres the key - it doesnt. So who does fit in with your ideal? Well, pick any Drinkwater level player, and I think youll be ok.
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
When you mentioned “he’s a punt originally” you mentioned Nkoudou and Njie. Look back. You didn’t mention Alli or Dier until I did.
We’ll get a stadium sponsor. We’re also guaranteed more money from ticket sales and the NFL. Yet we’re still carrying on as we always have in the transfer market - in a way that’s different to our competitors.
Football clubs (Man U) and businesses (Facebook, Amazon) spend against unearned revenues all the time. It’s sensible business risk. You just have to make sure you don’t do a Leeds and bank your entire future on getting CL football.
Huh??? In what world is 23rd August 'nice and early'?!?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41031823
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
And we had a fantastic season. Above most people’s expectations I’d wager.
Few had us in the top 4 with playing at Wembley.
DeanoAustin
Christian Ziege
We did and we did fantastically well.
But whatever Poch meant by “be brave”, he meant we should do things differently and we aren’t. At some stage, this strategy will catch up with us if we persist with.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Do I need to list EVERY single punt we have made to illustrate a point? Or are you able to understand it with just a couple of examples?
Yes, Alli and Dier went on to be worth a lot more than we paid for them. That is irrelevant to the point at hand though - which is - when we bought them they were gambles/punts/prospecting. They were not bought with the intent they would make an immediate impact on the first team. And so, accordingly, we didnt spend big money on them.
THAT is the point.
Ill simply have to disagree on you with mortgaging against our future just to satisfy your lust for (any) transfers. If theres one thing we know that Levy knows better than us, its finances. And he isnt going out and spending money we dont yet have, I have no doubt with good reason. And I also have no doubt it is not because he is a tightwad as you like to characterise him.
Yeah I acknowledged thought it was earlier than that....
Our strategy is hardly high risk, we either get our targets at a price we can afford or we don’t and we look at cheaper alternative punts or we go with what we have for now. If it was high risk why do we continue to punch above our weight and never really been below where we should be since Levy got his feet under the table? For our club that doesn’t have a bottomless pit of money just bending over to other clubs valuations and paying whatever they ask for straight away just to appease fans who have no idea how difficult negotiations are for a club in our position is far more high risk than how we currently go about our business. Maybe after a couple of years in new stadium things will change, but right now it is what it is....
So one example of why I consider it high risk. Take last summer when we signed Sanchez on 23rd August. What if someone else came in late for him and offered him more, or a club who he preferred to join - say a biggish Spanish team like Athletico (which often have more appeal for players from Latin America)? We'd have been in the last 10 days of the window and been scrambling around for a new CB. Given Sanchez was our back-up CB and turned out to be a really key player for us last season given the Toby situation, the alternatives which you suggest (go for a cheaper punt or go with what we have) could have backfired massively. We'd have needed Foyth or CCV to step up and play in the CL and PL
For squad players, like Lewis Cook would be or Gazzaniga who we only got in late on, its less of a problem if we miss out on them, but someone who would be in the first choice 18, like Sanchez would have been, I think it is high risk.
So basically your example is what if we don’t get one of our main targets? It’s happened several times before and it will happen again. Yet here we are still growing, still punching above our weight. So it’s not high risk at all because we have forward planning - high risk would be spending beyond our means just to appease our fans and it still wouldn’t guarantee us anything....