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Frank Give him time or get rid?

Thomas Frank give him time or get rid?

  • Give him until the summer

  • Give him until Christmas

  • Get rid now

Results are only viewable after voting.
harr1984 said:
It's a sound bite winning players and managers have given many times 'We knew what they were going to do and we were setup for it' blah blah and not specific to games against Spurs/Ange by any stretch.

It's nothing new, with all the analysis in today's game everyone knows how practically every team is going to setup....
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Exactly.
 
parj said:
Dude.... Tamworth could have beaten us, and should have near the end
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They didn’t beat us…. Crystal Palace (deservedly) lost to Macclesfield. Does that mean Glasner is terrible?

Yesterday wasn’t Spurs going to a lower league team on a plastic pitch. It was a home London derby against an appalling West Ham team who hadn’t won for 10 games. Not only did they beat us but they were the better team.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I remember there were two games, maybe on the bounce but in interviews I think both Salah and maybe a Fulham player said the same thing in post match, about them knowing exactly how we would play and how to exploit it was the worst kept secret in football.
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Whereas now you don’t even need to worry how to exploit our tactics, you basically just need to turn up.
 
braineclipse said:
Sorry to use your post as a jumping off point to head in a different direction. Really agree with you on your point well made.

30 games, 34 points...

Currently we're on 27 points after 22 games. So we need another 7 points from the next 8 games to be on equal points to last season after 30 games. Looking at the fixture list and our recent results doesn't look exactly guaranteed.
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I don’t think we’ll get 7 out of the next 24 points available if Frank remains in charge.
 
MartyFunkhouser said:
I suppose its called getting found out, they had just whalloped us 6-3
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I genuinely think the system we played December last year onwards was a way to have the players run less, because nearly all of the ones that were ‘fit’ were in the red zone on account of the injuries. It was a way to help them physically, without ripping up everything about our in possession game, so that we still had some ideals that they bought in to.

So the system that was exploited wasn’t even the ‘reckless’ one that everyone associates with Ange. It was a make do because we didn’t want them running too much without any squad depth whatsoever.

So I’m more curious as to why, if the actual Ange system is so easily exploited, why up to December were we comfortably top half and well in the European spots? Feels like now teams know exactly what we’re gonna do and find it very easy to play against?
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I genuinely think the system we played December last year onwards was a way to have the players run less, because nearly all of the ones that were ‘fit’ were in the red zone on account of the injuries. It was a way to help them physically, without ripping up everything about our in possession game, so that we still had some ideals that they bought in to.

So the system that was exploited wasn’t even the ‘reckless’ one that everyone associates with Ange. It was a make do because we didn’t want them running too much without any squad depth whatsoever.

So I’m more curious as to why, if the actual Ange system is so easily exploited, why up to December were we comfortably top half and well in the European spots? Feels like now teams know exactly what we’re gonna do and find it very easy to play against?
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Admittedly, I didn't feel we did play one system from December onwards. There was definitely adjustments for our league campaign but for the last 2-3 months of the EL campaign we seemed to change styles between league and cup. I would have been open to us just playing the EL way for the entire end of season even if we were changing personnel between the formats.
 
Muttley said:
Admittedly, I didn't feel we did play one system from December onwards. There was definitely adjustments for our league campaign but for the last 2-3 months of the EL campaign we seemed to change styles between league and cup. I would have been open to us just playing the EL way for the entire end of season even if we were changing personnel between the formats.
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Yeah I think there were basically two different systems in the league, one pre and one post December.

And then there was a much more pragmatic one in Europe.

We’ll never know exactly why he didn’t play the Europe way in the league. My assumption, which may be wrong, is that he put a lot of stock in being brave, in having principles, and because he’d basically got the players bought into a ‘this is who we are mate’ way of doing things with ultimate belief (Chelsea high line with 9 men being an example) that he didn’t want to throw it out completely. And the way of keeping them onside was saying ‘believe in this, it will be good for us long term, and I’ll take the flack, I wont throw you under the bus’ and basically the whole season he wasn’t negative on the players at all.

Maybe he thought for knock out football it’s easier to adapt game by game especially when so close to a trophy, but if he compromised in the league then suddenly the being brave and having belief looks hollow. You listen to our coaches like Mason and Wells about the final and they say our players just knew they were going to win. It was belief that we have simply never had in those situations for almost 2 decades. And wherever anyone stands on Ange, I think that’s the biggest thing to thank him for.
 
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The amount of stuff still flying back and forth about Ange vs Frank, neither have been good enough for us in their time in the premier league, why don’t we see what the club do re Frank and try looking to the future and what comes next rather than this gonads point scoring between a bloke who’s no longer here and a chap who seems like he might not be for much longer.

All the pining over our exes gets us no where.
 
Rafa87 said:
The amount of stuff still flying back and forth about Ange vs Frank, neither have been good enough for us in their time in the premier league, why don’t we see what the club do re Frank and try looking to the future and what comes next rather than this gonads point scoring between a bloke who’s no longer here and a chap who seems like he might not be for much longer.

All the pining over our exes gets us no where.
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I think it’s relevant only in the context of…if you’re sacking the trophy winning manager that still has the players, you simply have to get the next guy right. Sacking Adkins for Poch worked out great for Southampton. Sacking Ranieri for Jose worked out great for Chelsea. So it can work, but you need to get it right.

What I find interesting is now the scrutiny should be on the board. Vinai said they ran a thorough process and that Frank was the outstanding candidate. And surely things like motivational style, style of football, and press relations would be things that are discussed. And on every one of those aspects the worry would be Frank wouldn’t suit us, and I think we all trusted, because the board said they ran a thorough process, that he would adapt to us. But he hasn’t. He doesn’t talk like he has belief, and he’s played Brentford style football in the PL, rather than a style that better suited our players (again everyone assumed he was flexible and would adjust to what he had).

So I think questions go to - did the board (a new board that will know less about football and would not have been as aware of the goings on amongst the squad last season) get it wrong? Did they fail in their judgement? Did Frank actually find this job too big and so retreated into what he felt comfortable with? (Defensive football). Was he psychologically undone?

And I think where Ange is relevant is in a contrast. The belief he instills, he talks like a person managing a big club. The proactive football. I will say Frank has been really unlucky. Players failing to execute in key moments. Being a minute from beating United at home would have been a turnaround and vindication. Horrible VAR call at Saudi Sportswashing Machine. If he got the rub of the green then things could be different. But when the pressure is on, his confidence has dropped / he doesn’t have the personality to rise above it. And I think the players confidence is on the floor.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
But when the pressure is on, his confidence has dropped / he doesn’t have the personality to rise above it. And I think the players confidence is on the floor.
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You made 2 big statements there.

I think the first part can only be fan's perception as we don't know the man. Ange didn't publicly deal with the pressure and scrutiny at all. He spoke a load of old tosh at times in his pressers, got spiky when fair questions were asked and generally let himself and the club down. He avoided answering the toughest football questions from day 1 and just created stories /narratives. The Ange fans clearly wanted to blame the journo's but Ange wasn't so good with comms in my opinion. Frank is taking the opposite approach and being non-emotional and straight talking with the journo's from what I can see. That doesn't mean he has personality, at least in my mind. It means he perhaps has more intelligence with the press. We only see the external pieces.

What we don't know is what is Frank's personality with his players. Are they like Ange's players at end of his tenure where they still believed even though they were on the wrong side of some terrible losses? Let's hope so, but I think that is the part you're feeling isn't right.

I guess we won't know either as fans what is happening on the inside.
 
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