ENIC

[Muttley]

It's not a judgement call on Levy IMO. I am simply pointing out why I believe someone who was such a brilliant businessman for us -and who elevated us financially way, way beyond where we could reasonably expect to be- did not replicate that success on the pitch. It's a DNA call/view. Whether accurate or not is a point of debate.

I remember getting slated for daring to bring the words "Football DNA" to this forum when saying that Levy lacked it. I've said for 2 decades or more that Levy had some fundamental issues in his leadership. Listening was one area I suspected a challenge. That is the most important trait of a leader in my opinion. Communication was another area and he was never built to be publicly facing leader. He just didn't have the personality. Lack of football DNA when making football operations decisions was the one alluded to above.

Like you, I accepted him for who he was. A hugely smart business / commercial leader with a heart in the right place that drove us forward but had gaps in his personal portfolio. The latter was my only problem with him. If you're programmed to constantly listen and you're smart enough to know your own weaknesses or gaps then you do something about it. You build a leadership team that compliments you. The sum of the parts and all that. Levy just seemed incapable of doing that. He needed to step away from the day to day football operations management.

It's also why I paid compliments to Lange this year. Another leader that had some gaps in his own personal portfolio. He acknowledged this and brought in Rafi to compliment himself. Overall, the THFC leadership team has became stronger because of this decision.

 

[Baleforce]

I remember getting slated for daring to bring the words "Football DNA" to this forum when saying that Levy lacked it. I've said for 2 decades or more that Levy had some fundamental issues in his leadership. Listening was one area I suspected a challenge. That is the most important trait of a leader in my opinion. Communication was another area and he was never built to be publicly facing leader. He just didn't have the personality. Lack of football DNA when making football operations decisions was the one alluded to above.

Like you, I accepted him for who he was. A hugely smart business / commercial leader with a heart in the right place that drove us forward but had gaps in his personal portfolio. The latter was my only problem with him. If you're programmed to constantly listen and you're smart enough to know your own weaknesses or gaps then you do something about it. You build a leadership team that compliments you. The sum of the parts and all that. Levy just seemed incapable of doing that. He needed to step away from the day to day football operations management.

It's also why I paid compliments to Lange this year. Another leader that had some gaps in his own personal portfolio. He acknowledged this and brought in Rafi to compliment himself. Overall, the THFC leadership team has became stronger because of this decision.

Where are we in the table again?

 

[Muttley]

Where are we in the table again?

Please ask me that question every week. I'm gonna enjoy giving you answers as the vertical ascent happens.

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Come on, different size clubs and ambitions. Levy spent his time here making us as big financially, only to get fudged over before he could play at being a football animal. Also, they lucked out having Fergie as manager.

He had his chance to play football animal last summer and messed it up.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

CL final was way beyond where we could reasonably expect? We celebrated just getting in the UEFA with Jol. I remember.

But no, we didn't turn into Real Madrid on the pitch, like we did off it.

This is it, people have clearly enjoyed the ride and rise because the expectations have changed over 25 years. I think thats clear on the multiple debates that are going on and proof enough that he improved us, even if many (not all) don't want to come down off their hill and recognise that.

And to the point I saw on here the other day, can't for the life of me remember who it was, but its ridiculous to suggest that people supported Levy more than they supported the club, ridiculous to suggest that just because some don't see him and the wrong of everything

 

[Baleforce]

Please ask me that question every week. I'm gonna enjoy giving you answers as the vertical ascent happens.

Fair response, it is indeed early days.

There is a large assumption that it will though, personally, I’m worried it won’t.

Will you still enjoy me asking if things go in the other direction?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Fair response, it is indeed early days.

There is a large assumption that it will though, personally, I’m worried it won’t.

Will you still enjoy me asking if things go in the other direction?

Everyone wants the team to do well there is absolutely no doubting that. I do think people have gone early on the "serious club" and seeing the size of fees paid as a sure fire sense that all will be good, GHod I hope it is but football is not as logical as that.

Fingers crossed that this is a new dawn of footballing success

 

[robp135]

I remember getting slated for daring to bring the words "Football DNA" to this forum when saying that Levy lacked it. I've said for 2 decades or more that Levy had some fundamental issues in his leadership. Listening was one area I suspected a challenge. That is the most important trait of a leader in my opinion. Communication was another area and he was never built to be publicly facing leader. He just didn't have the personality. Lack of football DNA when making football operations decisions was the one alluded to above.

Like you, I accepted him for who he was. A hugely smart business / commercial leader with a heart in the right place that drove us forward but had gaps in his personal portfolio. The latter was my only problem with him. If you're programmed to constantly listen and you're smart enough to know your own weaknesses or gaps then you do something about it. You build a leadership team that compliments you. The sum of the parts and all that. Levy just seemed incapable of doing that. He needed to step away from the day to day football operations management.

It's also why I paid compliments to Lange this year. Another leader that had some gaps in his own personal portfolio. He acknowledged this and brought in Rafi to compliment himself. Overall, the THFC leadership team has became stronger because of this decision.

Levy was the right man to run the club from 2001-2021. Put him in charge of Everton now and they would be the 7th team within 5-10 years.

He just couldn’t do the next part very well.

 

[Baleforce]

Everyone wants the team to do well there is absolutely no doubting that. I do think people have gone early on the "serious club" and seeing the size of fees paid as a sure fire sense that all will be good, GHod I hope it is but football is not as logical as that.

Fingers crossed that this is a new dawn of footballing success

Yeah, I feel like people are responding more to the money spent than the product acquired.

 

[Muttley]

Levy was the right man to run the club from 2001-2021. Put him in charge of Everton now and they would be the 7th team within 5-10 years.

He just couldn’t do the next part very well.

He was the right man to lead us "his way" from about 2001 to 2012. FSG bought LFC in 2010 and in that 2010-15 period we started to see more mature leadership models emerging in the PL. Levy still mostly managed in his 2-in-the-box model with his managers right through to 2019 with Poch. Yes, we had DoF's in and out the door, but we never got the right structure for what was required to move forward especially with the football operations gap in competency. Levy did try to change that in 2019 with Trevor Birch but he flew the nest quickly and took up the lead EFL role.

Levy could still be in charge now if had evolved that leadership layer and set things up better. As I said above, if he had acknowledged his own portfolio gaps and seen the trends in the market. He was the "Blockbuster" of his generation. He was still telling everyone about how he was the first chairman to bring in these new VHS Direct of Footballers whilst the market shifted to Netflix.

 

[harr1984]

Yeah, I feel like people are responding more to the money spent than the product acquired.

Not at all - this place isn't full of ten year olds who just see a big transfer fee and think everything is amazing because of that.

The facts are we backed the manager big time with big transfers and getting in specifically the players he wanted and doing it early. It was unprecedented like it or not. It was never about how much we spent, but the fact we both purchased and sold players without endless haggling trying to 'win' deals that was to the detriment of the squad.

Our net spend was nothing out of the ordinary for us, but the way we behaved in the market was very different and long may it continue....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Not at all - this place isn't full of ten year olds who just see a big transfer fee and think everything is amazing because of that.

The facts are we backed the manager big time with big transfers and getting in specifically the players he wanted and doing it early. It was unprecedented like it or not. It was never about how much we spent, but the fact we both purchased and sold players without endless haggling trying to 'win' deals that was to the detriment of the squad.

Our net spend was nothing out of the ordinary for us, but the way we behaved in the market was very different and long may it continue....

You will also only know how good this is over time, so you are proving the point to an extent. You are going early with your judgement based on what you think ambition and a big club looks like.

Ultimately we are still victims of the footballing landscape..............see waiting all summer for Gakpo and Everton lad, ending up with a freebie and also the RIchy scenario. Which is proof, not a dig BTW, at how the footballing landscape is that many never want to acknowledge.

Lets all wait and see..........personally I hope you are right

 

[harr1984]

You will also only know how good this is over time, so you are proving the point to an extent. You are going early with your judgement based on what you think ambition and a big club looks like.

Ultimately we are still victims of the footballing landscape..............see waiting all summer for Gakpo and Everton lad, ending up with a freebie and also the RIchy scenario. Which is proof, not a dig BTW, at how the footballing landscape is that many never want to acknowledge.

Let's all wait and see..........personally I hope you are right

I haven't gone early with any judgement, that is how the board have acted, they backed the manager and got most of his choices in early. Whether they maintain this behaviour over time is another debate but that isn't what was being discussed.

Unless you are Real Madrid or similar you aren't going to get all your first choice targets in but we sure as hell got the majority of what our manager wanted and that has not happened before hence why you keep seeing the 'Well there's no excuses for the manager' comments, as this concept of properly backing the manager has been somewhat of an alien concept at Spurs....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I haven't gone early with any judgement, that is how the board have acted, they backed the manager and got most of his choices in early. Whether they maintain this behaviour over time is another debate but that isn't what was being discussed.

I never said it was, I said if it is a success is yet to be seen

Unless you are Real Madrid or similar you aren't going to get all your first choice targets in but we sure as hell got the majority of what our manager wanted and that has not happened before hence why you keep seeing the 'Well there's no excuses for the manager' comments, as this concept of properly backing the manager has been somewhat of an alien concept at Spurs....

Absolutely, don't disagree, have said it for years on here.............

BTW the 'Well there's no excuses for the manager' isn't about what you think it is, its about the level of control he has had which hasn't just been about financial overview IMO