ENIC

[Raziel]

I disagree. Arsenal aren't beating 94 AC Milan or 96 Juventus. You can around all you want if they have faaar better ball players you won't touch the ball and they did. 2025 PSG or Liverpool aren't getting a touch Vs 09 Barca either. Fitness levels may have improved but technique has not.

Bit of repeat of my original comment, those 94/96 teams would be destroyed by the press, tactical awareness is another level, the pace of modern players are way above, pick the fastest player on any of those sides, VDV would lap them, that 94/96 team could not match the pace of Arsenal (far less a PSG), especially not across 90 minutes (96 players probably were smoking, drinking, brick diets, not data tracked). Fundamentally I don't think those teams will be able to pass around that physicality difference.

We can agree to disagree but you can pick a sport, any top level athlete in 2025 will utterly run circles around same athlete from 25 years ago with very rare exceptions.

Just to give you a cherry picked example as we don't have official speed timing from more than about 10 years ago
- Diego Maradona's run through England in 86, 51 meters in 10 seconds. That’s an average of 18.4 km/h (yes, not exact, but can't get better data)
- By 2019, Bale had clocked a 36.9 km/h
- By 2024, VDV was at 37.38 km/h
- By 2025, Mbappe did 38.0 km/h

Magnitudes difference, and modern players can do it over and over again.

 

[Raziel]

We do have assists from Ginola's era. I have posted them in the combined G&A numbers (which are lower than Johnson's, Kulu's, Son's and Maddison's).

Memory is not a great thing, we overestimate players of older eras (they were great for their time and that's ok)

Kane's scoring rate (with all but two years in a non dominant side) is ahead of Van Nistelrooy and significantly ahead of Shearer, Cole, Owen, Henry, Rooney

 

[Bullet]

Could the last few pages be moved to the Ginola / 90s corner thread please?

 

[Baleforce]

Bit of repeat of my original comment, those 94/96 teams would be destroyed by the press, tactical awareness is another level, the pace of modern players are way above, pick the fastest player on any of those sides, VDV would lap them, that 94/96 team could not match the pace of Arsenal (far less a PSG), especially not across 90 minutes (96 players probably were smoking, drinking, brick diets, not data tracked). Fundamentally I don't think those teams will be able to pass around that physicality difference.

We can agree to disagree but you can pick a sport, any top level athlete in 2025 will utterly run circles around same athlete from 25 years ago with very rare exceptions.

Just to give you a cherry picked example as we don't have official speed timing from more than about 10 years ago
- Diego Maradona's run through England in 86, 51 meters in 10 seconds. That’s an average of 18.4 km/h (yes, not exact, but can't get better data)
- By 2019, Bale had clocked a 36.9 km/h
- By 2024, VDV was at 37.38 km/h
- By 2025, Mbappe did 38.0 km/h

Magnitudes difference, and modern players can do it over and over again.

absolutely agree, athletic advantage is massive

 

[Lemonade Money]

Could the last few pages be moved to the Ginola / 90s corner thread please?

May as well move it to the shampoo thread.

 

[Bishop]

Bit of repeat of my original comment, those 94/96 teams would be destroyed by the press, tactical awareness is another level, the pace of modern players are way above, pick the fastest player on any of those sides, VDV would lap them, that 94/96 team could not match the pace of Arsenal (far less a PSG), especially not across 90 minutes (96 players probably were smoking, drinking, brick diets, not data tracked). Fundamentally I don't think those teams will be able to pass around that physicality difference.

We can agree to disagree but you can pick a sport, any top level athlete in 2025 will utterly run circles around same athlete from 25 years ago with very rare exceptions.

Just to give you a cherry picked example as we don't have official speed timing from more than about 10 years ago
- Diego Maradona's run through England in 86, 51 meters in 10 seconds. That’s an average of 18.4 km/h (yes, not exact, but can't get better data)
- By 2019, Bale had clocked a 36.9 km/h
- By 2024, VDV was at 37.38 km/h
- By 2025, Mbappe did 38.0 km/h

Magnitudes difference, and modern players can do it over and over again.

They can run around all day, they ain't touching the ball.

And sure in purely athletic competitions the standards generally improve but that's not even always the case. The mens long jump ecord has stood for over 30 years, the triple jump for about 25+ years. The 400m hurdles stood for 30 odd years etc. so progression isn't even necessarily linear. Besides we are talking about football, athletic prowess is overrated otherwise Sissoko would have 10 Balon d'ors.

Maradona goal wasn't about speed and that where you might be confused, it was the supreme control of the ball, the body feints the change of direction etc. that synchronicity with the ball can't be replicated unless you actually have a similar level of technique ie. Messi. Maradona would baffle modern defenders as much if not more so than he did in his hey day. Defensive structures are weaker today than they were in the 80s and 90s. You think he wouldn't tou with these half way line stationed defences. He would destroy with his passing. I'd love to see it.

 

[Bishop]

We do have assists from Ginola's era. I have posted them in the combined G&A numbers (which are lower than Johnson's, Kulu's, Son's and Maddison's).

As I mentioned earlier I don't really care about pure stats without context, they don't really tell much. As I said earlier Johnson has more goals than Figo ever had in a single season, add his assists and he probably ends up with more G/A. Am I supposed to think Johnson is also better than Figo? Do you think that's the case?

As an aside where did you get those Ginola assist stats? I've never found a reliable source for pre 2007ish assist stats.

 

[Finney Is Back]

As I mentioned earlier I don't really care about pure stats without context, they don't really tell much. As I said earlier Johnson has more goals than Figo ever had in a single season, add his assists and he probably ends up with more G/A. Am I supposed to think Johnson is also better than Figo? Do you think that's the case?

As an aside where did you get those Ginola assist stats? I've never found a reliable source for pre 2007ish assist stats.

Transfermarkt. I went to watch Spurs home and also most away games back then. Ginola rarely had a really big impact on the game. What some people now seem to call a ‘match of the day player’.

 

[billyiddo]

He had enough of an impact to be seen as a shining light in an otherwise dark time - unquantifiable maybe

 

[Lilbaz]

They can run around all day, they ain't touching the ball.

And sure in purely athletic competitions the standards generally improve but that's not even always the case. The mens long jump ecord has stood for over 30 years, the triple jump for about 25+ years. The 400m hurdles stood for 30 odd years etc. so progression isn't even necessarily linear. Besides we are talking about football, athletic prowess is overrated otherwise Sissoko would have 10 Balon d'ors.

Maradona goal wasn't about speed and that where you might be confused, it was the supreme control of the ball, the body feints the change of direction etc. that synchronicity with the ball can't be replicated unless you actually have a similar level of technique ie. Messi. Maradona would baffle modern defenders as much if not more so than he did in his hey day. Defensive structures are weaker today than they were in the 80s and 90s. You think he wouldn't tou with these half way line stationed defences. He would destroy with his passing. I'd love to see it.

The javelin world record will never be beaten.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

He had enough of an impact to be seen as a shining light in an otherwise dark time - unquantifiable maybe

Also by his peers
He did with PFA awards