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ENIC

Apparently done a couple of days ago on Aug 15 - fans of all 20 clubs on if their club is run well -

Screenshot_20230817-121204.png

Levy is on par with the Glazers for how folks think he runs the club, and 16 out of 20 clubs in the league do a better job than him, judging by fan responses.

Will try to find the source, plus a higher-resolution image.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I agree. The only thing that worries me, is he only appears when there is an Anti-Enic drum to bang. I hope he's enjoying Spurs (to some degree) outside of these moments.

The trouble with the ENICout phalanx is it appears all consuming, constantly living rent free in their heads.
There must be some redeeming features, something to get behind, some, if not pleasure, fun in supporting the team we all love.
Hopefully Ange can make us feel all warm and fuzzy.
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The problem with it is IMO most fans would happily take new owners who cab invest more
But there hasn’t been a sign of any so no change is likely anytime soon
So repeating and quoting twitter and other uncontrolled mediums won’t help convince a sensible person
 
DubaiSpur said:
Apparently done a couple of days ago on Aug 15 - fans of all 20 clubs on if their club is run well -

View attachment 15879

Levy is on par with the Glazers for how folks think he runs the club, and 16 out of 20 clubs in the league do a better job than him, judging by fan responses.

Will try to find the source, plus a higher-resolution image.
Click to expand...

Wow! If you took notice of online attention seekers you'd imagine far far more Spurs fans are anti-Levy, when in effect you and the attention seekers are a minority. Who knew?
 
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SpurMeUp said:
Wow! If you took notice of online attention seekers you'd imagine far far more Spurs fans are anti-Levy, when in effect you are the attention seekers are a minority. Who knew?
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Well, I knew. I've pretty consistently held that we are a minority, mate.

I also know that is changing pretty quickly, which I am happy with. Fingers crossed it accelerates, and we have the whole stadium united in chanting for ENIC to fudge off 'ere long. ;)
 
DubaiSpur said:
Apparently done a couple of days ago on Aug 15 - fans of all 20 clubs on if their club is run well -

View attachment 15879

Levy is on par with the Glazers for how folks think he runs the club, and 16 out of 20 clubs in the league do a better job than him, judging by fan responses.

Will try to find the source, plus a higher-resolution image.
Click to expand...

That's it I'm convince, a random sample of people who change their minds more than their underpants can't be wrong.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Wasn’t uh done through sky bet or something similar?
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Reverse searched the image and only came up with this Club app - but, I did some more digging and you're right - YouGov and SkyBet survey of 1,500 respondents in July.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...legation-battle-according-Sky-Bet-survey.html

https://www.givemesport.com/survey-...-club-ahead-of-202324-season/#tottenham---5-3

Interesting. Puts us at 18th place, before we lost Kane too. Wonder how much lower it's gotten now.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Well, I knew. I've pretty consistently held that we are a minority, mate.

I also know that is changing pretty quickly, which I am happy with. Fingers crossed it accelerates, and we have the whole stadium united in chanting for ENIC to fudge off 'ere long. ;)
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Question is how much are you and other’s influenced by the online rabbit hole? Because when you deconstruct it a lot of the arguments are quite irrational. Follows a pattern of online haters in various guises.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Question is how much are you and other’s influenced by the online rabbit hole? Because when you deconstruct it a lot of the arguments are quite irrational. Follows a pattern of online haters in various guises.
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Depends. I think some definitely go way too far down like the death threats to Levy from earlier.

But I think others see what is happening to the club, see what is happening at our rivals, see us being left behind, and make reasonable conclusions without going overboard. Many of those are the ones who have been singing for the past half-year, at games home and away, for Levy to get out of the club.

And crucially, I don't think that number will fall - only rise with time. Because what has been keeping Levy afloat this whole time has been the hope of the stadium being our ticket to compete - this summer was the first time people saw how wrong that was, and the glass ceiling that ENIC imposes on us is going to be resented by more and more people who look around us and see our inability to compete.

So, you can call it irrational if you'd like - but I see it as a very rational, very honest take on the situation. We cannot compete under ENIC - get rid.

As for how to do that, it's a little more complicated, but the first step is to make it clear that you want that to happen. Seems reasonable enough to me.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Reverse searched the image and only came up with this Club app - but, I did some more digging and you're right - YouGov and SkyBet survey of 1,500 respondents in July.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...legation-battle-according-Sky-Bet-survey.html

https://www.givemesport.com/survey-...-club-ahead-of-202324-season/#tottenham---5-3

Interesting. Puts us at 18th place, before we lost Kane too. Wonder how much lower it's gotten now.
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I checked it out
It’s sky bet
When it came out I avoided it because it was sky bet
The yougov thing was never mentioned
 
DubaiSpur said:
Depends. I think some definitely go way too far down like the death threats to Levy from earlier.

But I think others see what is happening to the club, see what is happening at our rivals, see us being left behind, and make reasonable conclusions without going overboard. Many of those are the ones who have been singing for the past half-year, at games home and away, for Levy to get out of the club.

And crucially, I don't think that number will fall - only rise with time. Because what has been keeping Levy afloat this whole time has been the hope of the stadium being our ticket to compete - this summer was the first time people saw how wrong that was, and the glass ceiling that ENIC imposes on us is going to be resented by more and more people who look around us and see our inability to compete.

So, you can call it irrational if you'd like - but I see it as a very rational, very honest take on the situation. We cannot compete under ENIC - get rid.

As for how to do that, it's a little more complicated, but the first step is to make it clear that you want that to happen. Seems reasonable enough to me.
Click to expand...

But doesn't it always come back to this

1. If the idea is compete with City/Chelsea & Saudi Sportswashing Machine in a world where FFP isn't enforced -> yes, ENIC will not have us compete (still think things will even out and we will grab a trophy or two at some point)
2. That inherently is the problem, how would you change, and who would come in, and unlike you (we have had this discussion before), not everyone believes/no guarantees next one is automatically better
3. I have no problem with people expressing it, my problem is it has made our fanbase toxic, and that doesn't help the team (and the team matters, not agendas)
 
DubaiSpur said:
Found it - came from a Twitter app, here -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1691496767265656832

Interesting stuff. Can't say how valid without the sample size, though.
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I don’t think it is necessarily Levy, Lewis is the majority owner who I think calls the shots. That being said though I do think some of Levy’s decisions over the past 5 years or so have been appalling, though I’ve no idea whether they were made after pressure from above.
 
Raziel said:
But doesn't it always come back to this

1. If the idea is compete with City/Chelsea & Saudi Sportswashing Machine in a world where FFP isn't enforced -> yes, ENIC will not have us compete (still think things will even out and we will grab a trophy or two at some point)
2. That inherently is the problem, how would you change, and who would come in, and unlike you (we have had this discussion before), not everyone believes/no guarantees next one is automatically better
3. I have no problem with people expressing it, my problem is it has made our fanbase toxic, and that doesn't help the team (and the team matters, not agendas)
Click to expand...

I started to write a reply to Dubai, and realized you'd already written it!

I'll add that I think some of this comes from how one views life generally. In many situations people can choose to either take a positive or a negative. Tottenham are a brilliant example. Here's two views -

1. The Positive/Optimist

1) South Korean skipper and globally recognized star.
2) Brazil's #9 who won Goal of Last WC Tournament
3) Vibrant, exciting young players in all areas
4) A genuine top top drawer playmaker
5) A manager who believes in playing OUR football
6) A superb new (ish) stadium
7) A platform of expectation which no longer leaves us 'hoping' we can get CL, but genuinely annoyed when we don't!


2. The Negative/Pessimist

1) Chairman has failed to back managers consistently, in particular failing Poch
2) Sold the generational striker in British football for 100 mil with a year left on deal and no new contract imminent
3) We are failing to keep up with City, Chelsea and Saudi Sportswashing Machine
4) We have failed to utilize fully one of the great strike partnerships in PL history
5) We have not gone out and done the sort of immediate business the Chelseaa of this world have
6) We have a shiny new(ish) stadium which seems to exist only to further line investor pockets
7) Failure to get into Europe this season, let alone the PL, leaves us about to get cut adrift as the Brightons, etc usurp us.

What is interesting is that, actually, BOTH carry a high degree of accuracy, and IMO it becomes a case of HOW someone wants to live.

I am all about controlling what I can control as best as I can, which is why the 1st option suits me. Am I mug to some? Absolutely. Is that OK? Absolutely. I think the only time I get tinkled off is when the ol' 'happy clapper' gets wheeled out. Because it disrespects and invalidates an approach to life which IMO is a healthy way to go, with the (surly obvious caveat) that life is not all 'joy and cheer' and many of us have had to deal with serious, sad, and hard issues.

Anyway, posted in the spirit of trying to understand how these polar views arise...
 
DubaiSpur said:
Depends. I think some definitely go way too far down like the death threats to Levy from earlier.

But I think others see what is happening to the club, see what is happening at our rivals, see us being left behind, and make reasonable conclusions without going overboard. Many of those are the ones who have been singing for the past half-year, at games home and away, for Levy to get out of the club.

And crucially, I don't think that number will fall - only rise with time. Because what has been keeping Levy afloat this whole time has been the hope of the stadium being our ticket to compete - this summer was the first time people saw how wrong that was, and the glass ceiling that ENIC imposes on us is going to be resented by more and more people who look around us and see our inability to compete.

So, you can call it irrational if you'd like - but I see it as a very rational, very honest take on the situation. We cannot compete under ENIC - get rid.

As for how to do that, it's a little more complicated, but the first step is to make it clear that you want that to happen. Seems reasonable enough to me.
Click to expand...

It is wholly irrational, as you and others effectively blame oil-dopped clubs on Levy.

I’ve never understood why disaffected Spurs fans don’t direct their ire at the real issue which is the likes of Chelsea, city and Saudi Sportswashing Machine making a sport lopsided by using oil wealth to skew fair competition. Instead you call for us to do it too.

Instead of targeting the problem you criticise and sow division within the club you supposedly support. It gets hits and clicks, but what positive benefit comes from it? How dare Levy run a sustainable business. How dare he build the club up to compete long term without subsidy!
 
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Raziel said:
But doesn't it always come back to this

1. If the idea is compete with City/Chelsea & Saudi Sportswashing Machine in a world where FFP isn't enforced -> yes, ENIC will not have us compete (still think things will even out and we will grab a trophy or two at some point)
2. That inherently is the problem, how would you change, and who would come in, and unlike you (we have had this discussion before), not everyone believes/no guarantees next one is automatically better
3. I have no problem with people expressing it, my problem is it has made our fanbase toxic, and that doesn't help the team (and the team matters, not agendas)
Click to expand...

1. Pretty much - the idea is to compete with these teams. Whether it is possible without state backing is the question - some believe it isn't, some believe it is. I believe it is - FSG did it, Kroenke's doing it with 600m-odd in spending on his side.

2. See above. I acknowledge that the next owners might not be better, but I choose to believe they will be, on the logic that the nonentities we have now contribute next to nothing anyway. The floor for a new owner is zero impact - that's a pretty generous place to start from.

3. Sure, but that's how you see it. Flipped around, people who want the owners out might see that as the healthiest thing possible for our team and club - and the short term pain is worth it for the long term gain of forcing them out, or at least drawing attention to the fact that we are a club crying for new owners. If the chanting and the anger force a change, that will be far healthier than continuing on in this situation for another 23 years.

It's the same calculation people make about ENIC's 'slow and steady rise' - short term pain for long term gain. Just flipped around to suit the question of ownership.
 
SpurMeUp said:
It is wholly irrational, as you and others effectively blame oil-dopped clubs on Levy.

I’ve never understood why disaffected Spurs fans don’t direct their ire at the real issue which is the likes of Chelsea, city and Saudi Sportswashing Machine making a sport lopsided by using oil wealth to skew fair competition. Instead you call for us to do it too.

Instead of targeting the problem you criticise and sow division within the club you supposedly support. It gets hits and clicks, but what positive benefit comes from it? How dare Levy run a sustainable business. How dare he build the club up to compete long term without subsidy!
Click to expand...

On 'calling for us to do it too', yep. And the reason is because this is how football has *always* worked in England, as I think I've mentioned to you before. There was never a time when being rich *didn't* benefit their clubs - from Arsenal being the 'Bank of England' club in the 1930s to us splashing £99,999 on Greaves back when such a thing was unheard of.

What is the more rational thing - calling for something that has gone on across football for 150 years to change, or just wanting our deadweight owners to change to ones that benefit us? I'd say you're the irrational one here, mate.

On Levy building the club up to compete long term 'without subsidy' - he hasn't, he can't, and that is what is selling Kane has woken more people up to. We cannot compete, the way we are run, with the owners we have. This is a grim fact, but it's true. Now, what do we do about it? We can do nothing and meander for another 23 years, promising much and achieving little. Or we can voice our demand for owners that care about us, and dream again.
 
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DubaiSpur said:
On 'calling for us to do it too', yep. And the reason is because this is how football has *always* worked in England, as I think I've mentioned to you before. There was never a time when being rich *didn't* benefit their clubs - from Arsenal being the 'Bank of England' club in the 1930s to us splashing £99,999 on Greaves back when such a thing was unheard of.

What is the more rational thing - calling for something that has gone on across football for 150 years to change, or just wanting our deadweight owners to change to ones that benefit us? I'd say you're the irrational one here, mate.

On Levy building the club up to compete long term 'without subsidy' - he hasn't, he can't, and that is what is selling Kane has woken more people up to. We cannot compete, the way we are run, with the owners we have. This is a grim fact, but it's true. Now, what do we do about it? We can do nothing and meander for another 23 years, promising much and achieving little. Or we can voice our demand for owners that care about us, and dream again.
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You're honestly asking if it’s more rational to make a sport about how much you spend or to promote a greater level of fair competition? I think you are showing up your arguments here.

Almost all sports that rely on investment, curb and control for the uncompetitive force of excessive funding attaining unfair advantage. But you advocate for it!

inadvertently you support Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Where are your ethics!? Where is your loyalty!?
 
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