ENIC

[elltrev]

I wouldn’t bother mate as I have said before a lot of posters on here correlate their personal financial and occupational dreams with what Levy has done for Spurs off the pitch. He is their idol in that respect.

They are more interested in the business progression than the team even if they don’t all realise it yet.

And I do respect what Levy has done off the pitch but I’m not utterly obsessed with it to call for statues and calls for anything else is gonna be cheating or doing a Leeds.

Personally my focus is on pitch progression where Levy’s often totally unnecessary penny wise pound foolish approach has held the club back.

Its time for that behaviour to come to an end.

But has it been Levy's penny-pinching or Lewis'?

 

[glorygloryeze]

It's been nearly 4 years since we opened the new stadium and at least 7 years since planning permission was approved.
Why have we still not got a stadium sponsor?

 

[braineclipse]

I wouldn’t bother mate as I have said before a lot of posters on here correlate their personal financial and occupational dreams with what Levy has done for Spurs off the pitch. He is their idol in that respect.

They are more interested in the business progression than the team even if they don’t all realise it yet.

And I do respect what Levy has done off the pitch but I’m not utterly obsessed with it to call for statues and calls for anything else is gonna be cheating or doing a Leeds.

Personally my focus is on pitch progression where Levy’s often totally unnecessary penny wise pound foolish approach has held the club back.

Its time for that behaviour to come to an end.

Speculations about the inner workings and motivations of people who disagree with you definitely isn't a great argument.

I care about the financial success of the club because that is a path to somewhat sustainable on the pitch success.

We're currently, right now, in a position we dreamed of being in when Levy took over. Now that's seen as a crisis of sorts. That's how far we've come. I think we can go further, I desperately want us to go further. I see no reason to think we can't keep developing.

We are spending money, just in case you haven't noticed.

 

[DubSpur]

It's been nearly 4 years since we opened the new stadium and at least 7 years since planning permission was approved.
Why have we still not got a stadium sponsor?

Don't know, could be looking for an unrealistic deal, but what would have contributed is covid and companies not willing to get into deals with so many uncertainties. Now that's behind us for the most part, there is the current economic issues. Loads of big tech companies are laying off large amounts of staff and starting a high profile sponsorship costing millions at the same time wouldn't be the best look.

 

[braineclipse]

Interesting, why is that? As far as I can tell the owners have put close to £0 into the club until recently, and yet under Levy we've still managed to compete with the five richer teams.

This for me as well.

We've managed to perform beyond our financial powers for quite a while. Now we have some money to spend, and are spending it. We've gotten good football people in charge of football stuff. I think that seems like a pretty good formula.

It used to be all "Levy doesn't spend, back his manager etc". Now he's doing that, because we have the money to (thanks in part to Levy). But the problem is still Levy.

Wasn't this kind of backing of a DoF and a manager what people wanted all along?

 

[braineclipse]

Don't know, could be looking for an unrealistic deal, but what would have contributed is covid and companies not willing to get into deals with so many uncertainties. Now that's behind us for the most part, there is the current economic issues. Loads of big tech companies are laying off large amounts of staff and starting a high profile sponsorship costing millions at the same time wouldn't be the best look.

Yeah. Impossible to know. Could be that we're trying to get a bigger deal with more NFL stuff in place?

It seems a strange one on the surface at least. But I'm rather convinced the club are looking for the best options.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I disagree. Dortmund do it all the time. And we're a different proposition than Dortmund, because we play in a higher profile league and can offer better wages. Meaning we would never be selling all our best players. One here and one there won't hurt us in the least, if we have a system that brings through new players. We should become a club that talented young players want to come to, which will ensure we have a steady supply of quality players.

Holding on to Eriksen, Dele, and Dier rather than selling them for eye-watering fees at their peak cost us the opportunity to do a bit of a refresh at a time when we needed it and were more cash strapped. I would argue that holding on to Son after his golden boot season might also have been a missed opportunity to cash in on a player (although probably we don't need the cash as much now) and bring in new blood. So, even though we're less cash strapped now, but we should still not be averse to the occasional sale of a "star" player provided we have the system set up to keep bringing in the next set of talents. And we will win stuff in the meantime too, with this setup.

I don't disagree with that, but wasn't the point I was making. The 'selling club' stick was definitely a thing. The bit you highlighted was my quotes of the diatribe.

But onto your points anyway...
The Dortmund comparison is fair as they are a 'challenger' type club as we are. The only difference is usually they can walk to a CL place most years so the decision to sell has a lesser risk/reward potential impact.

Plus 20/20 hindsight management doesn't really contribute much. Yes we can see that now (obviously) but we don't know the opposite scenario. Dele and Eriksen were massive cogs in that team. We'd be compensated with money, but we don't know that outcome beyond that. Walker would be an example of that, the team becoming weaker, despite the £'s.

 

[braineclipse]

I don't disagree with that, but wasn't the point I was making. The 'selling club' stick was definitely a thing. The bit you highlighted was my quotes of the diatribe.

But onto your points anyway...
The Dortmund comparison is fair as they are a 'challenger' type club as we are. The only difference is usually they can walk to a CL place most years so the decision to sell has a lesser risk/reward potential impact.

Plus 20/20 hindsight management doesn't really contribute much. Yes we can see that now (obviously) but we don't know the opposite scenario. Dele and Eriksen were massive cogs in that team. We'd be compensated with money, but we don't know that outcome beyond that. Walker would be an example of that, the team becoming weaker, despite the £'s.

On the selling club note. We've got to experience Harry Kane equal the club scoring record.

Without the progress made under Levy I don't think that happens. Not to say progress couldn't have been made under other chairmen, but on average clubs don't improve.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yeah. Impossible to know. Could be that we're trying to get a bigger deal with more NFL stuff in place?

It seems a strange one on the surface at least. But I'm rather convinced the club are looking for the best options.

It's 100% this. It has been hindered by the COVID break but the thinking is potential dual use stadium, two biggest leagues in the world. No-one else can offer a stadium and sponsor opportunity with exposure to both.

That points us to mainly American sponsors, and then potentially American owners, with an eye on a prospective NFL franchise down the road.

The downturn in the economy and the correction in tech (many big hitters in that sector) could create hurdles.

That said we got some specialist guy onboard to deal with all this...he's literally got one job to do.

 

[braineclipse]

EnicOut twitter are noisy....it'll trend...cesspit clickbait media will pick up on that and stoke that fire, pump out stories with no regard for accuracy/truth....and the frenzied feedback loop continues.

Truth is 40 people turned up to their big protest day last Saturday. The reason they don't get greater traction is their arguments don't encourage any discussion or GHod forbid any solutions (beyond ' be sugar daddy or get out of our club').

Most noise and toxicity is coming BECAUSE of this nonsense.
Gary Nev said last night hes not sure what the problem is. Made a great run to 4th last season, Spent nearly £200m in Contes first two windows. Are 3pts of 3rd/4th still in the FA Cup and CL ko's.
So things could be marginally better. Marginally.
.

Most of the ENIC out, social media, news media, trust feedback loop will diminish once/if short term results improve.

Although I disagree with some ENIC/Levy out sentiments on here I can at least respect the views of those posters that hold and voice that view through ups and downs.

The feedback loop stuff, not so much.

It's rather unsurprising that a big spending spree like that is not enough to get us the short term success we want and definitely not enough to sway ENIC out sentiments in the absence of said short term success.

 

[parklane1]

Sounded to me that whenever there were Levy out chants, they were quickly followed by much louder pro-Spurs songs? Which makes me think there were more fans not wanting to sing Levy out then those that were.

That is excately the way it was. The Levy out phalanx were a lot fewer in numbers and were out shouted by the other fans.

 

[billyiddo]

It's been nearly 4 years since we opened the new stadium and at least 7 years since planning permission was approved.
Why have we still not got a stadium sponsor?

Could be any number of factors at play here but for example considering the recent rumours of QSI investing in the club it could possibly better to have the stadium unbranded to use in negotiations there or with other investors.

Also if there is potential NFL link ups/franchises in the offing then a naming rights value will be much higher than had we signed what we could get at the time.

Or it could be that we have put a too high value on what we want and won't budge - who knows?

 

[Lemonade Money]

Could be any number of factors at play here but for example considering the recent rumours of QSI investing in the club it could possibly better to have the stadium unbranded to use in negotiations there or with other investors.

Also if there is potential NFL link ups/franchises in the offing then a naming rights value will be much higher than had we signed what we could get at the time.

Or it could be that we have put a too high value on what we want and won't budge - who knows?

If it was this, we would know by now and adjust accordingly. Otherwise we would be throwing money away, and that's not Levy.

 

[Finney Is Back]

That is excately the way it was. The Levy out phalanx were a lot fewer in numbers and were out shouted by the other fans.

Were you also there last night? It really didn't seem that way to me at all. The group singing the Levy out songs (and lots of fans joined in with those) were the ones starting most of the pro Conte and general Spurs supporting songs as well.

 

[parklane1]

Were you also there last night? It really didn't seem that way to me at all. The group singing the Levy out songs (and lots of fans joined in with those) were the ones starting most of the pro Conte and general Spurs supporting songs as well.

Yep, there was a group who were singing about Levy but as i said they were in the minority and got out sung as soon as they started.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Above average job. That's good isn't it? Assuming new owners will on average be... average, why the wish to get out of above average?

Because it's not enough. Above average got us into the top six over 23 grinding years. It is hitting a brick wall, as Conte, Mourinho, and Poch before him all identified the need to behave differently, 'like a big club', if we want to challenge for things.

We don't do that, we have never done that, and it does not look like we will do that. Even now, the way we act just does not match that model - we are rarely decisive when it matters, getting players in the manager wants, early, without faffing about negotiating for cheapo loans and 50p until the last seconds of the window.

It's not a fear of the unknown for me. It's a realisation that the unknown will also have a lot of potential downsides. You say you "choose to believe that we can too". We can choose to believe that, but I think a sober look at both potential upsides and downsides is warranted, not just a choice to believe.

Contrary to popular belief, a sober look at upsides and downsides is what I am basing this on. ENIC took over 23 years ago, when the football landscape was incomparably different to today and running Tottenham on a Mr.Byrite-derived 'zero in, zero out' model of slow, grinding growth was enough to lift us to UEFA Cup footie and the occasional CL appearance. It may even be that they imagined that it would lead us to more if we waited long enough for the slow growth to pay dividends.

The problem for them is, football did not obediently wait for their 25-year plan to pan out - Chelsea got taken over and zoomed past us, and then City got taken over and zoomed past us. In the late 2000s/early 2010s, it looked like Hicks and Gillett's mismanagement had opened a gap between us and Liverpool, but then FSG came in and blew ENIC away with how they ran their club - ironically relying on a lot of talent ENIC had initially identified (Edwards, Inglethorpe, etc.) to help their rise. That period when we were competing for the same players in the mid-2010s (epitomized by us turning down Sadio Mane because of his wages and going for Georges Kevin N'Koudou instead, while Liverpool just pulled the trigger) was the sliding doors moment there.

Then Josh Kroenke took over from his dad at Arsenal and started spending heavily to back Arteta. Then the Saudis took over at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and have kickstarted their rise. Now Boehly has bought Chelsea and is spending another 1.5bn on players, which will inevitably push them back past us again.

ENIC, to their credit, belatedly recognized the inadequacy of their ownership model and ploughed in about 100m last summer to keep us competitive. But as Conte pointed out (and is still pointing out), that is no longer sufficient - 60m players are needed every window if we really want to reach that next level.

ENIC are incapable of that, and have fallen back into their bad habits, if the torturous penny-pinching on Porro is any indicator.

That's why they're utterly inadequate. And as for the risks involved with a takeover, like I said, I think the risks are minimized both because of some innate advantages to being in our position (London club, meaning lots of exposure/media by default), but also our attractiveness as a brand being based heavily on our tangibles (stadium, training ground, real estate position in Haringey). IMO, Boehly wanting to buy us before he bought Chelsea is an indicator of the kind of serious buyer we can expect (or QSI), as opposed to fly-by-night types like Moshiri. Ironically enough, ENIC are in part to thank for that.

 

[Grays_1890]

This for me as well.

We've managed to perform beyond our financial powers for quite a while. Now we have some money to spend, and are spending it. We've gotten good football people in charge of football stuff. I think that seems like a pretty good formula.

It used to be all "Levy doesn't spend, back his manager etc". Now he's doing that, because we have the money to (thanks in part to Levy). But the problem is still Levy.

Wasn't this kind of backing of a DoF and a manager what people wanted all along?

I would understand the issue if Levy and Lewis came in like Roman and Abu Gharib, I mean Dhabi came into City and said "we will win the league by XYZ" but they didn't so where this expectation has come from is not from broken promises like some of the BS rhetoric but from them raising the bar themselves. And Look I break it down into three, they came in, they took 10 years to close the gap on 20 years of regression against the big boys using a buy young and flip method as we were stuck in a 34,000 seater ark. Then they spent 10 years consolidating top 4 football, give or take whilst they built to improve the offering and revenue, I also look at this period in a way that if you asked me in 2000 would we be a top 4 side in the future I would have laughed at you so they did make huge strides. Then we are where we are now and only 2 years into a new full revenued up stadium as they do everything they said they would do aka, as you say, putting the money back in.

So for me, they have done all they have set out and said they would do, stuck to the plan and have been good for it. The lack of silverware along the way is equal blame on them, managers and players so as frustrating as it is, I can kinda live with it in terms of not losing my sh1t and purely blaming Levy. Yes I get its a slowly slowly method but ultimately they put their money where they mouth was to even invest the original money when absolutely not one cared about Spurs to do so, into what was a dying or at best procrastinating swan and built it to this situation where we have an infrastructure that can bring future success without the need for dirty siphoned cash.

I could go into non footballing things like the community aspect and how much the clubs done for the area also, in a period of the Duggan situation and when it was most needed but I know Enic out want to concentrate on the football side, but for me the work done off the pitch for the area is just as important as on and without Enic Tottenham would be dead in 2023 without investment and cooperation lead by Spurs

 

[Grays_1890]

Because it's not enough. Above average got us into the top six over 23 grinding years. It is hitting a brick wall, as Conte, Mourinho, and Poch before him all identified the need to behave differently, 'like a big club', if we want to challenge for things.

We don't do that, we have never done that, and it does not look like we will do that. Even now, the way we act just does not match that model - we are rarely decisive when it matters, getting players in the manager wants, early, without faffing about negotiating for cheapo loans and 50p until the last seconds of the window.

Contrary to popular belief, a sober look at upsides and downsides is what I am basing this on. ENIC took over 23 years ago, when the football landscape was incomparably different to today and running Tottenham on a Mr.Byrite-derived 'zero in, zero out' model of slow, grinding growth was enough to lift us to UEFA Cup footie and the occasional CL appearance. It may even be that they imagined that it would lead us to more if we waited long enough for the slow growth to pay dividends.

The problem for them is, football did not obediently wait for their 25-year plan to pan out - Chelsea got taken over and zoomed past us, and then City got taken over and zoomed past us. In the late 2000s/early 2010s, it looked like Hicks and Gillett's mismanagement had opened a gap between us and Liverpool, but then FSG came in and blew ENIC away with how they ran their club - ironically relying on a lot of talent ENIC had initially identified (Edwards, Inglethorpe, etc.) to help their rise. That period when we were competing for the same players in the mid-2010s (epitomized by us turning down Sadio Mane because of his wages and going for Georges Kevin N'Koudou instead, while Liverpool just pulled the trigger) was the sliding doors moment there.

Then Josh Kroenke took over from his dad at Arsenal and started spending heavily to back Arteta. Then the Saudis took over at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and have kickstarted their rise. Now Boehly has bought Chelsea and is spending another 1.5bn on players, which will inevitably push them back past us again.

ENIC, to their credit, belatedly recognized the inadequacy of their ownership model and ploughed in about 100m last summer to keep us competitive. But as Conte pointed out (and is still pointing out), that is no longer sufficient - 60m players are needed every window if we really want to reach that next level.

ENIC are incapable of that, and have fallen back into their bad habits, if the torturous penny-pinching on Porro is any indicator.

.

I agree with City and Chelsea zooming past us but let not pretend that after 10 years of 12th, 14th, 16th finishes and real relegation threats that they did not also work hard to close the gap on limited resources that the club had at the time because they did. Man United were an absolute juggernaut, Arsenal were midway through a legacy under Wenger and we closed the gaps.

For all the money Man United and Chelsea are spending and have spent, in the Chelsea example of this season on 500m spending and Man United 1bn in 5 years they have severely underachieved, more so than us based on wasted revenue on players like Lukaku and Pogba etc. In 6 years United have finished 2nd, 6th, 3rd, 2nd, 6th with no trophy on a billion quid, Chelsea are 10th on 500m investment ontop of their existing squad based on spending....if Levy did that he would also get his arse kicked by fans, but fans give those others a pass because of the green eyed monster in them and give them a pass for being ambitious because they plough money in but people ignore the failing years because they themselves are calling for a sugar daddy....I mean if we are really going to talk success, people want money into Spurs by any means possible, they don't care about the whys, where and what, Qatar have flashed their cash garter and fans have already started to drop their pants calling for full on unprotected cash penetration

And before anyone says, I know they have won things previously but if you think their fans are sat there now happy because of cup wins a few years back and are not baying for their boards for success you would be wrong, but we have fans that have become absolute Chelsea cucks who can't see past the money spent and actually be real about things that also don't work in their situation

The reason I take balanced view because although, yes money clubs will have an advantage I don't believe its the only way as many seasons have proven and also after years of watching Sinton, Calderwood and Austin I can reflect on the progression without the nouveau crew views of "what have Enic ever done" (Not you BTW just the young crowd I see at games howling at the moon)

 

[Mikey10]

Or it could be that we have put a too high value on what we want and won't budge

That sounds so Levy.

 

[billyiddo]

This reframing of our years under ENIC as a 23 year long grind is pure BS @DubaiSpur - granted it has been poor since we have moved in to the stadium but prior to that and the few years leading up to the Arnesen DoF restructuring it has for the most part been some of the best years to be following Spurs wrt consistent top end football - the Redknapp & Poch years in particular being in the top 4 spells for league performance in our history (early 60s and late 80s (iirc) being the other two) the Jol years up there not far behind i would imagine (someone over on TFC done a post showing the above to be factually correct btw) and there's no way over those years anyone following Spurs found it a drag or a grind