ENIC

[Baleforce]

They don’t need it…. They could dilute their stake to inject some liquidity.

This is your equivalent of Pirate and his corners.

As an investment opportunity for others, what kind of return would they be looking at, is the incentive really there?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Have a look at those quotes. Paste them in...they don't really say that. They possibly say Roma 'dithered', but really think about it...as a player you have interest from 3 clubs. Your agent is in touch with them all. Money being equal, who are you going join out of the 3 options?

The quotes say spurs and roma were interested and one club dithered.. it never said it was us though as you say

 

[RigorMortis]

if a club is spending more than it makes, due to investment from its owners, or through sponsorships from another of it's owner's companies, that's cheating

the super league prize money would have been earned through football activity, we were offered that place due to our all round perfermance in recent years

Not from what his father said, it seems ourselves and Roma were in for him but Liverpool acted faster.

it also ties into various other articles but of course it’s all lies

 

[Finney Is Back]

No we should always aim higher. If we finish higher than 6th though we've performed above expectations. If we finish lower we've done worse.

And yet the CEO has a habit of sacking managers who achieve ‘par’ or even better finishes….

 

[RigorMortis]

The quotes say spurs and roma were interested and one club dithered.. it never said it was us though as you say

Actually it says “they dithered” I read it as both of us

there’s also an article in the athletic

again we all read articles and interpret it and set it against past behaviour,
Neither you or me can prove or disprove it but judging over how in my impression we always seem to have one player most transfer windows who we are close to signing and it never goes over the line it sounds perfectly plausible.

Apoligies if I don’t have a detailed video diary or all the negotiations

 

[RigorMortis]

This is your equivalent of Pirate and his corners.

As an investment opportunity for others, what kind of return would they be looking at, is the incentive really there?

Well of course not which is why they won’t do it
I think that’s the basic point

 

[billyiddo]

Fair enough but I think the general context of what I’ve said is consistent

And the stats support that don’t they ( with Poch being the outlier)

Maybe to avoid it let’s say we will lumber around the Europa / Europa conference league places with the occasional foray into champions league

does that make it clearer?

And the stats under ENIC seem to justify it.
It’s a shame that I think you probably understood the context but decided instead to be pedantic

I was just highlighting what you had said because it seemed like you were saying i was misremembering/making it up.

So taking the general view of what you have said wrt to where you think we'll likely finish under ENIC in the future and that you seem to want new owners asap I'm going to deduce that you think being a club that finishes 4th-8th is unacceptable for us and enough to roll the dice on new owners, despite the fact that we have United, City, Chelsea and Liverpool who are richer clubs than us and soon to be Saudi Sportswashing Machine added to that list as well - you think the chances of a new owner consistently having us in the top 4 is a likely outcome even though we have no way to judge their abilities as owners?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Yes 1 trophy is not good enough. But we've been runners up 5 times and got to 7 semis that we lost. Our league positions in thd last 10 years has on average been the highest in the clubs history. Averaging 4.5 in the league. Compared to the glory years which was 4.6. The 10 years prior to enic our average league position was 10.8.
All the while with investing in the stadium and training ground. Now we will start seeing the benefits from that and hopefully turn those runners up places into wins.

Yes our recruitment the last 5 years has been bad.
Bringing in mourinho and nuno were bad choices.
Yes we dither too long on transfers and i would like us to us more decisive in who we want and get them sewn up before preseason starts.
If new investors or owners come in brilliant. But enic haven't ruined our club and levy doesn't deserve the hate.

The 2 managers responsible for that high average both sacked!

 

[Bishop]

Yeah I’m starting to realise that any criticism of ENIC seems to negate any nature of coherent debate

This is why I have at times called it the Cult of Levy. They tend to lump you in and attack on subjects you haven't even said. I forever get responses telling me about why we can't spend big money, strange when thats not something I've ever argued for. As someone else mentioned a lot of straw man arguments get used whenever someone doesn't sign from the ENIC are glorious songbook.

I don't think Enic will compete with oil-subsidised clubs. Which non-oil funded clubs consistently do? That is where your wrath should be directed - that leagues and competitions are skewed in favour of clubs who are subsidised by sales of a polluting resource.

That said, Enic's model is sustainable. If Ambranovick pulls out, chelsea would sink without another benefactor. Enic have done what they can in terms of lifting the clubs profile, facilities and profitability. We can now invest more than we ever have in players and that's year in year out. It doesn't compete with City and Chelsea because they are subsidised. If more people focused on this, and made more noises about it, then Spurs (and arsnal, united and pool) would benifit. Longer-term leagues will want to ensure there is more robust controls on buying success. As it leaves fans without hope and passion. Clubs who are capable of winning trophies are not competing on a equal footing - that is clear isn't it?

I'm not sure if you're just unaware but Chelsea are now fully financial self sustaining. If Roman were to pull out they wouldn't collapse, at worst they wouldn't be able to just pay whatever fees they like but that's been the case for them for the last 3 or so years anyway when Roman has basically taken a step back from frontline involvement so it wouldn't make that much of difference.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

 

[SpurMeUp]

The quotes say spurs and roma were interested and one club dithered.. it never said it was us though as you say

"Tottenham was one [interested team].
"Roma were also left behind in the process.
"THEY HESITATED A LOT AND LET THEMSELVES BE CAUGHT BY LIVERPOOL.
"Liverpool were faster than them, they needed him and they took him away.
"There were many suitors who wanted Luis’ services, but he had the dream of reaching Liverpool because Liverpool are an elite team.

 

[Lilbaz]

The 2 managers responsible for that high average both sacked!

What was the form of the team at the time they got sacked?

 

[RigorMortis]

Have they wholly used the club to their own benefit?

They are not a charity or not for profit. It is an investment that they will want to see successful. To be successful they will have to ,by default, be doing something for us as well. They have given the best possible facilities for the players to excel. They have given us the best possible facilities to watch our team play. A byproduct being increased income from us stuffing our faces and getting lubricated and from (GHod forbid) other events being held on days when we are not there. (I'm so worried about what goes on in N17 on non match days).

We are in that phase now. Increased income that will go to the team (unless you're a non believer). There is little asset growth upside now. If they extract money from the club this will be visible. Ours spending power will never be that if City Chelsea Man u etc but can be on par with Liverpool Arsenal etc...and we can be successful at those levels as they have proven, but it is a tough league, the toughest.

And I just don’t see the precedent for that.

In fact it seems to me we need to reduce and trim our squad in order to bring new faces in.

again as it seems to be getting ignored I don’t think there is anything wrong with that.
My issue with ENIC and it seems to be with most on this forum is the strategy and that doesn’t mean spending for the sake of it, it’s spending smartly and in positions of strength. It’s something we don’t seem to do, to add context alongside not strengthening during the Poch tenure, you could add the 2012 transfer window(Saha and nelson), the 2010 summer transfer widnow( galas and the late Rafa acquisition).

To counter that you could say we strengthens after the 2019 CL final but with hindsight on my side ( but I expect the powers at be knew this) the side was in a downward curve and Poch had lost his mojo and the rebuild should have started earlier

 

[Finney Is Back]

if a club is spending more than it makes, due to investment from its owners, or through sponsorships from another of it's owner's companies, that's cheating

the super league prize money would have been earned through football activity, we were offered that place due to our all round perfermance in recent years

Hmmmm…. I think it is abundantly clear that we were offered the place to ensure there were 6 PL teams, ensuring there were enough in the breakaway group to ensure the clubs couldn’t be voted out of the PL by the other members…. Look at the last 20 year trophy hauls of every other team invited to that competition and then Spurs and it was abundantly clear that we weren’t in there on merit.

 

[Baleforce]

Hmmmm…. I think it is abundantly clear that we were offered the place to ensure there were 6 PL teams, ensuring there were enough in the breakaway group to ensure the clubs couldn’t be voted out of the PL by the other members…. Look at the last 20 year trophy hauls of every other team invited to that competition and then Spurs and it was abundantly clear that we weren’t in there on merit.

Its not just about trophies, we are in London, we have an amazing stadium and marquee players.

They were selling an entertainment product.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

it’s not about what they say but what they do and Conte’s comments which were the trigger for this debate seem to echo that there is a degree of doubt on how much he will be backed

Dubai's fault really.....sucking in all the SM clickbait gonad*s and cash generating news aggregator accounts.... without just reading the 'full transcript'.

Perhaps you haven't either? He's echoing nothing that you suggest.

 

[SpurMeUp]

This is why I have at times called it the Cult of Levy. They tend to lump you in and attack on subjects you haven't even said. I forever get responses telling me about why we can't spend big money, strange when thats not something I've ever argued for. As someone else mentioned a lot of straw man arguments get used whenever someone doesn't sign from the ENIC are glorious songbook. I'm not sure if you're just unaware but Chelsea are now fully financial self sustaining. If Roman were to pull out they wouldn't collapse, at worst they wouldn't be able to just pay whatever fees they like but that's been the case for them for the last 3 or so years anyway when Roman has basically taken a step back from frontline involvement so it wouldn't make that much of difference.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk

These guys were lying? https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidd...-into-chelsea-despite-losing-love-for-london/

Yes it was 2 years ago, but they have been selling all their loan stock to help and been in the CL. Take that away and do you think they are sustainable? I think you are a little deluded here. 1b in debt to get to this position. Relient on selling loan stock and CL, in the real world, how self-sustainable is their model?

As for not debating and a cult, that raises a smile. There is huge debate today on all of this. There is no cult, just fans debating. If you arguments don't stack up this kind of name-calling is your (weak) fallback. You're better than that

 

[Finney Is Back]

They could if someone is willing to come in with the money. It looks like levy is searching for investors.

Problem seems to be that they think THFC is worth £3b as opposed to the £1.5b that is a more realistic fee.

 

[Baleforce]

Abramovich put that money into Chelsea to clean it, sooner or later he’s going to have to hand it back to Vlad if he doesn’t want a visit from the Salisbury cathedral fan club.

 

[RigorMortis]

Its not just about trophies, we are in London, we have an amazing stadium and marquee players.

They were selling an entertainment product.

So not through football activity then? I’d argue with the marquee players compared to most of the other teams, arsenal aside

 

[Finney Is Back]

This is your equivalent of Pirate and his corners.

As an investment opportunity for others, what kind of return would they be looking at, is the incentive really there?

For a ‘realistic’ fee there will always be investors…. For a top valuation of £3b with much less room for upside there will be much less interest.