Daniel Levy - Former Chairman

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Wouldn't be shocked if it was him doing it for clout and it not being true, looked like a stich up from who else was on the panel, I would have to watch it again TBH, not that it means much to even bother

I think SJ and DL are mates, and I agree that it’s weird for SJ to allow a private text to make its way on air.

I think what it says though is that DL doesn’t think his view is embarrassing, he probably thinks it makes him look better. And I think that says it all.

 

[BrentwoodSpur]

I think SJ and DL are mates, and I agree that it’s weird for SJ to allow a private text to make its way on air.

I think what it says though is that DL doesn’t think his view is embarrassing, he probably thinks it makes him look better. And I think that says it all.

I think it was all a stunt. If Jordan didn’t want that aired they have a delay and a dump button. Personally I think it was a dingdong move on both SJ and DL’s parts

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

True, but with a caveat imo. Him running Arsenal is absolutely irrelevant to me. Kane was in their youth program for a wee bit as a kid, Gallagher's a Chelsea lad, and so on. As long as you're professional and keep your Goon connections to yourself when you're on the clock (and represent the club well when off it), it makes little difference these days.

What bothers me more is his reluctance, or inability, to read the room when things are going badly wrong. Keeping Frank for as long as he did because it worked with Arteta ignores the many environmental differences between the two situations. Trusting Lange as anything more than a glorified scout, even more so. Couple that with the unforced errors, like promising more communication, and then disappearing for months when the team was in the murk - or agreeing to do that tech conference talk about being CEO at Spurs when the team was desperately fighting against relegation. Hiring Tudor as an interim because he was on Paratici's 'break glass in case of emergency' sticky note, and then getting desperate and giving de Zerbi total control and a fat wage to join just a month later.

If it's true that Nick Beucher was the one who stepped in to get Frank sacked, it doesn't speak well of Vinai's ability to read the room - which should be one of the main survival traits for any leader.

I frankly think we're in a bit of an odd situation at the moment where it seems like the Lewis kids (or at least, Vivienne Lewis) genuinely want the club to act differently to how their dad let Levy run it (and by some accounts, Vivienne didn't like Levy, so it checks out). But they've put trust in Vinai and Lange to run that rebuild (and Charrington to hang around as their eye on things). And I'm not sure that will work out the way the Lewis kids think it will.

I do agree. Why I caveated ‘for the purposes of this conversation’ because GHod knows I have my worries about why Vinai kept Frank for so long.

I too am fascinated by the Lewis kids. I initially thought they’d want to sell and any claim that they didn’t want that was just posturing to drive up the price. But maybe there’s an aspect to this that if all PL clubs are sports washing these days, maybe they are trying to regain the Lewis family brand? Maybe they don’t want their family to be known for the dad’s dirty dealings, but for bringing success to the club?

Also would love to know more about NB’s role. Heard that he pushed to get De Zerbi in whatever the cost, and you have to say that was the most insightful decision anyone in a position of power at the club took all of last season.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I think SJ and DL are mates, and I agree that it’s weird for SJ to allow a private text to make its way on air.

I think what it says though is that DL doesn’t think his view is embarrassing, he probably thinks it makes him look better. And I think that says it all.

I suspect he also didn't expect a text between peers to be aired???

In fairness I have seen debates all week on twitter that range from "good deal" to "bad deal", I mean I am sure I have seen that on here too. So its not really the gotcha people people are making out, two men from the game discuss the value of the deal

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

I suspect he also didn't expect a text between peers to be aired???

In fairness I have seen debates all week on twitter that range from "good deal" to "bad deal", I mean I am sure I have seen that on here too. So its not really the gotcha people people are making out, two men from the game discuss the value of the deal

Yeah I just genuinely don’t think DL would even think he has anything to be embarrassed about by his view on the deal being out there. He probably thinks it makes him look better.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Yeah I just genuinely don’t think DL would even think he has anything to be embarrassed about by his view on the deal being out there. He probably thinks it makes him look better.

Or he just gave his opinion?

I don't think there is any great conspiracy here

 

[Bishop]

I suspect he also didn't expect a text between peers to be aired???

In fairness I have seen debates all week on twitter that range from "good deal" to "bad deal", I mean I am sure I have seen that on here too. So its not really the gotcha people people are making out, two men from the game discuss the value of the deal

It's not a gotcha, it's just a confirmation of our understanding of his rationale. His response to the details of the deal is completely unsurprising.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

It's not a gotcha, it's just a confirmation of our understanding of his rationale. His response to the details of the deal is completely unsurprising.

And under an ownership model where someone else held the cash, its likely spot on

 

[SissokoWasGood (BoL)]

Or he just gave his opinion?

I don't think there is any great conspiracy here

Neither do i?

 

[Bishop]

And under an ownership model where someone else held the cash, its likely spot on

Almost all clubs are run by someone spending money for someone else. Levy wasn't unique in that regard. What was unique was his personal ownership percentage and the the potential conflict of interest there.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Correct, it is also over looked that he was never a rich man himself, so was not using his own money but the money allocated to him. Much easier for the family who actually own the club to say "we will be spending more" than it is for the man tasked with running their company.

Also I think all of this talk always over looks where we came from at the time DL took the reigns to where we are now, all the arguments about ambition and success in the transfer market comes from a base he grew, raising expectations. There is no way in 2001 the same fans would have been arguing for parity with Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern and Dortmund. And equally, I find people only ever compare us to clubs based on their hugely successful moments, not their bad.

For a club that has won 2 league titles in its life I do find some of this laughable, you can be ambitious, but also being realistic isn't the crime its made out to be. I went down a Hoddle rabbit hole the other day and it re-shocked me to realise we won 3 major trophies in his 12 years here, 3, all coming over 3 years, so for 9 years we did nothing, over a period fondly looked back with him and players as the "Glory Glory" times. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love him and that period too, but again, it wasn't exactly prolific success.

The guy made massive mistakes here, but he also most certainly raised the expectations of the fanbase which for me is a marker of his success.

Oh if only we could win 3 major trophies in 12 years again at some point of the rest of my life!

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Oh if only we could win 3 major trophies in 12 years again at some point of the rest of my life!

Absolutely, wouldnt make us Liverpool though like the comparisons

 

[Finney Is Back]

Almost all clubs are run by someone spending money for someone else. Levy wasn't unique in that regard. What was unique was his personal ownership percentage and the the potential conflict of interest there.

As well as the big salary that he paid himself.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Absolutely, wouldnt make us Liverpool though like the comparisons

To become a Liverpool you need owners who value winning trophies more than they value increasing their own personal wealth

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

To become a Liverpool you need owners who value winning trophies more than they value increasing their own personal wealth

The point was, DL clearly raised yours and others expectations to keep talking the comparisons you have fot the last 10 years or so. Absolutely no chance you were comparing us to that level of club when we were finishing 14th, 11th &10th the years before he took the reigns.

 

[Muttley]

Correct, it is also over looked that he was never a rich man himself, so was not using his own money but the money allocated to him. Much easier for the family who actually own the club to say "we will be spending more" than it is for the man tasked with running their company.

Also I think all of this talk always over looks where we came from at the time DL took the reigns to where we are now, all the arguments about ambition and success in the transfer market comes from a base he grew, raising expectations. There is no way in 2001 the same fans would have been arguing for parity with Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern and Dortmund. And equally, I find people only ever compare us to clubs based on their hugely successful moments, not their bad.

For a club that has won 2 league titles in its life I do find some of this laughable, you can be ambitious, but also being realistic isn't the crime its made out to be. I went down a Hoddle rabbit hole the other day and it re-shocked me to realise we won 3 major trophies in his 12 years here, 3, all coming over 3 years, so for 9 years we did nothing, over a period fondly looked back with him and players as the "Glory Glory" times. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love him and that period too, but again, it wasn't exactly prolific success.

The guy made massive mistakes here, but he also most certainly raised the expectations of the fanbase which for me is a marker of his success.

I think people miss the point with Levy. He actually was and still is a significant financial stakeholder in THFC. He has ridden the football money chain brilliantly and turned his personal wealth from <£50m to becoming a personal billionaire, or very close to. That has been created from Sky TV packages, sponsorship deals, season tickets etc when you look back through the supply chain. It may not be the case now but there was a time where Sky were making £1.5b profit a year and their biggest consumer package was sport. That money that flooded into football dragged Levy and other smart businessmen along and made our football club worth billions, not hundreds of millions. His stewardship on the financial side was very good.

However, not the point I'm making. Levy's issue was a leadership 101 principle. Levy never recognised his own weaknesses in his chosen career path. He hit CEO level but didn't know how to substitute his weaknesses and plug the gaps with good hires. His own board were just clones of himself and I think we had 4 of them at one point with ACA after their name (chartered accountants). Now I'm now saying you can't be a chartered accountant and not have sales and marketing DNA, but it's quite likely you went down that path as it was your vocation. Same as football. We all know Levy came up short in a lot of the football operational activities. He empowered himself e.g. what @SissokoWasGood (BoL) was talking about earlier where Levy valued players himself even though we all know he couldn't get to a ground zero level of detail on any footballer he had at the club, let alone ones we were going to buy. Levy's football ops skillset was pretty poor.

For me, it's such a shame Levy didn't recognise his flaws and it's also a shame he didn't build great leadership groups to bring us more than bottom line growth. He made so many poor decisions over the years and he was never gregarious enough to move through those periods. He just went quiet and wouldn't face the music personally. He knew he couldn't articulate a real football conversation like a lot of his peers. He was also quite condescending to us fans in his comms. There was no real recognition as the fan as the customer with him.

 

[Baleforce]

I think people miss the point with Levy. He actually was and still is a significant financial stakeholder in THFC. He has ridden the football money chain brilliantly and turned his personal wealth from <£50m to becoming a personal billionaire, or very close to. That has been created from Sky TV packages, sponsorship deals, season tickets etc when you look back through the supply chain. It may not be the case now but there was a time where Sky were making £1.5b profit a year and their biggest consumer package was sport. That money that flooded into football dragged Levy and other smart businessmen along and made our football club worth billions, not hundreds of millions. His stewardship on the financial side was very good.

However, not the point I'm making. Levy's issue was a leadership 101 principle. Levy never recognised his own weaknesses in his chosen career path. He hit CEO level but didn't know how to substitute his weaknesses and plug the gaps with good hires. His own board were just clones of himself and I think we had 4 of them at one point with ACA after their name (chartered accountants). Now I'm now saying you can't be a chartered accountant and not have sales and marketing DNA, but it's quite likely you went down that path as it was your vocation. Same as football. We all know Levy came up short in a lot of the football operational activities. He empowered himself e.g. what @SissokoWasGood (BoL) was talking about earlier where Levy valued players himself even though we all know he couldn't get to a ground zero level of detail on any footballer he had at the club, let alone ones we were going to buy. Levy's football ops skillset was pretty poor.

For me, it's such a shame Levy didn't recognise his flaws and it's also a shame he didn't build great leadership groups to bring us more than bottom line growth. He made so many poor decisions over the years and he was never gregarious enough to move through those periods. He just went quiet and wouldn't face the music personally. He knew he couldn't articulate a real football conversation like a lot of his peers. He was also quite condescending to us fans in his comms. There was no real recognition as the fan as the customer with him.

I think Levy was good at judging players.

For every one we did miss out on because he wouldn't pay the fee or wages, there are 10 he stopped us wasting our money on.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think Levy was good at judging players.

For every one we did miss out on because he wouldn't pay the fee or wages, there are 10 he stopped us wasting our money on.

I am, as you know, greatly appreciative of the superb work Levy did off the pitch. Genius. Honestly the best ever.

His transfer dealings/method? Not so much.
Season after season we played games and did not get players in until days before a season started -or sometimes a game or so into it- which consistently cost us. He often ended up over-paying in order to get something across the line knowing it would otherwise be a bust. I laughed when Simon Jordan said he got that text from Levy that we'd had our pants pulled down; from a man who spent 65 million on Solanke nonetheless...

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

I think people miss the point with Levy. He actually was and still is a significant financial stakeholder in THFC. He has ridden the football money chain brilliantly and turned his personal wealth from <£50m to becoming a personal billionaire, or very close to. That has been created from Sky TV packages, sponsorship deals, season tickets etc when you look back through the supply chain. It may not be the case now but there was a time where Sky were making £1.5b profit a year and their biggest consumer package was sport. That money that flooded into football dragged Levy and other smart businessmen along and made our football club worth billions, not hundreds of millions. His stewardship on the financial side was very good.

However, not the point I'm making. Levy's issue was a leadership 101 principle. Levy never recognised his own weaknesses in his chosen career path. He hit CEO level but didn't know how to substitute his weaknesses and plug the gaps with good hires. His own board were just clones of himself and I think we had 4 of them at one point with ACA after their name (chartered accountants). Now I'm now saying you can't be a chartered accountant and not have sales and marketing DNA, but it's quite likely you went down that path as it was your vocation. Same as football. We all know Levy came up short in a lot of the football operational activities. He empowered himself e.g. what @SissokoWasGood (BoL) was talking about earlier where Levy valued players himself even though we all know he couldn't get to a ground zero level of detail on any footballer he had at the club, let alone ones we were going to buy. Levy's football ops skillset was pretty poor.

For me, it's such a shame Levy didn't recognise his flaws and it's also a shame he didn't build great leadership groups to bring us more than bottom line growth. He made so many poor decisions over the years and he was never gregarious enough to move through those periods. He just went quiet and wouldn't face the music personally. He knew he couldn't articulate a real football conversation like a lot of his peers. He was also quite condescending to us fans in his comms. There was no real recognition as the fan as the customer with him.

Sorry mate, but that bolded is simply not fully true. Yes revenues were rising but that didn't impact the clubs valuation or Levy wealth, what he did with the club commercially did that more so. Building the stadium, having the foresight to make it into a commercial powerhouse, making the NFL deal. It was his foresight and hard work over 20 years that made the quantum leap for the club financially and yeh it was aided by the PL money etc all, but it was never covering what was needed before the stadium to push on.

The footballing decision declined, but he was never as bad as people made out, yes he lucked out with some, but before the stadium or ability to flip players for major profits and go again, running at Net Zero and still have the club operating in Europe more years than not, that doesn't come from being crap on the footballing side. Where those wheels came off was when the operational side became to big, thats not not recognising flaws thats taking the eye off the ball and making some bad decisions (there isn't an owner/chair base that hasn't).

Overall, Levy had flaws, like I say, all in football do, from players to owners, but we are a much better club than before he took over, he undoubtedly raised expectations in our support base, just look at these pages to see that and he undoubtedly future proofed the club on the commercial side that will have a lasting impact for the good moving forward.

 

[Muttley]

I think Levy was good at judging players.

For every one we did miss out on because he wouldn't pay the fee or wages, there are 10 he stopped us wasting our money on.

Says who. Who did he block?

Our recruitment team rarely get their first choices, our club has a terrible history of taking 3rd or 4th choices and them being bad buys. Mostly late in the summer as well. When did Levy ever intervene on these?

Levy's squad strategy and management working with Harry was as bad as I've ever seen. We all knew the new squad quotas were coming in and we still ended up with 35 players over 21 at the start of every summer for 4 years. We haemorrhaged money on salaries for players that had no 1st team impact and we couldn't manouvere in the transfer market and get high quality, fresh blood in place. Don't even get me started on Steve Pienaar.

Levy was terrible in the 2-in-the-box model. He always needed football DAN around him other than his managers.