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Daniel Levy - Former Chairman

Strange reading "embarrassing" being used in any posts about professional football, most people involved in it have no shame and the concept is beyond them. It's mainly the fans who feel that as they are emotionally committed to the club.
 
Maybe I’m remembering it incorrectly, but I don’t recall there being a huge amount of criticism or hostility until around 2021, when the stadium reopened after Covid, a few months after Mason took over and fans gradually started returning. By that stage, ENIC had already been in charge for more than 20 years. I’d say that’s a fair amount of time to give any chairman and ownership group.

Before Covid, I don’t remember ENIC and Levy receiving anything like the level of criticism they did in the years that followed. In fact, from the Redknapp era through to the Pochettino years, the club and fanbase were largely united.

I don’t condone abuse, but I do understand criticism. Levy became the lightning rod because he was the one constant throughout numerous managerial changes and constant turnover in the playing squad.
I think that's a fair assessment.....but even 2021 was 5 years ago. Enough for an abusive partner to take its toll.
 
I think you are purposely missing some of the facts around it, yes we went for him on the basis of his clause, if we hadn't its unlikely we would have at all, so yeh it was opportunist, but the fact he didn't come in the end was pressure and personal life, the guy has literally said it himself several times, so that just can't be ignored.

As for being embarrassed, like I say, why? Because the club that actually owned the club kept their player under some duress? Come on now



Again, Eze literally made the statement, the approach from Arsenal came before ours, we are a serious club, but we ain't Arsenal, like we were not Chelsea when the Willian deal fell through, but equally we are a bigger club that RB and we took Simons, so I am ok with the whole food chain of football and how it works, some find it embarrassing because its our rivals, I couldn't really care, we have pulled rank on clubs and others have pulled rank on us.

Lets also be clear about what we know about the club, the Lewis family has the power, thats without any doubt, they could have provided guidance on funds to make both deals more attractive at any time, if us fans felt the pinch when them deals were happening, don't tell me the powers that be didn't not know and what did they do? Of course they were happy with Levy acting like he did, because by and large he did it within the constraints of the finances and budgets afforded to him. Its easy to come out after and say "well we are smashing the glass ceiling on the wages and what we spend for quality" but then where were they then? Thats where the revision and swallowing of BS happens IMO.

I am willing to give this structure a chance, but on the basis they have changed their tune because it is the same owners there have always been and this season the slept walked into oblivion by making no decisions till the end when it nearly backfired on them, that wasn't on DL and it wasn't a good looking start.

We are not the first club to miss out on targets, we won't be the last. Its the game

Again, I’m not talking about merely getting gazumped, I’m talking about too clever by half tactics firstly with examples over years and then in quick succession that have demonstrably held us back. If you don’t think there was anything odd about those deals then fine…I just think with the football ecosystem as we know it now, we were clearly very close to both, and we failed to get them over the line. And to be clear, I am not embarrassed. I think the owners were. We wanted to start to compete for top players, that the top clubs want. And in both cases, in public and frankly ridiculous circumstances, we fail to do the deals. I maintain, to think those deals were normal is to he desensitised to the DL playbook, and accepting that as Tottenham we shouldn’t be able to get them. Put it this way, a top club either gets that close because they know they’ll get the deal done, or they don’t go that far.

I think the owners were perfectly happy with how Levy ran the club up to 2019. 50m to 4bn valuation or whatever it is. I think they gave him free rein. And then they probably started to wonder why other clubs started to make waves, and started to see the game changing around them, and probably had an inkling that the way things had been done needed to change. As I said a few posts back, I’m curious as to who exactly is giving the Lewis kids the football advice now. But I think their analysis of the situation and what we need to do is correct. I do believe Levy was holding us back, both in overall lack of football strategy and in an inability to get the big deals done. And I’m interested to see how far the Lewis kids and VV can take us because their public statements suggest they know what needs to change to act like a top club.
 
I haven’t seen that
What I have seen and I agree with, is levy would have acted much quicker

I honestly don’t know the answer. The caveat is that we were still in the Champions League. I imagine Levy gave Ange more time than he normally would have because of our involvement in the Europa League, and he may well have learned a lesson from sacking a manager while still in the latter stages of a cup competition, as he did with Jose.

It’s not a huge leap of logic to suggest he might have afforded Frank similar patience because of the Champions League.

If we hadn’t been in Europe, I’d agree that he would most likely have pulled the trigger weeks earlier. Personally, I think Frank should have gone after the West Ham defeat.
 
Yes, because their emotional needs were being met. Yet the same man, probably operating in exactly the same way as he always had, was in charge. Go figure.


We had a manager in Redknapp who played attractive, free-flowing football while still maintaining a solid defensive balance, and as a result the team flourished for most of his tenure, right up until the final few months.

Then Pochettino came in and united the fanbase. Once again, the team was moving in the right direction on the pitch. When results are good and the football is enjoyable, there’s naturally less reason for supporters to direct criticism at the chairman.

That doesn’t mean Levy wasn’t making mistakes during that period, though. In my view, there were still opportunities to take both the team and the club to the next level that were missed, particularly when it came to recruitment and squad building.
 
Just found an old quote from Levy that I remember him making.

"I'm always clear that we are merely the custodians of the club -- it was here long before any of us and will be here long after us all. It is simply our turn to look after it, grow it and support it."

When you read of all the lawsuits against Triller the owners of Eight Sports makes the alleged sale of his share of the club to them a little bemusing but of course £££££££ wins in the end.
 
I honestly don’t know the answer. The caveat is that we were still in the Champions League. I imagine Levy gave Ange more time than he normally would have because of our involvement in the Europa League, and he may well have learned a lesson from sacking a manager while still in the latter stages of a cup competition, as he did with Jose.

It’s not a huge leap of logic to suggest he might have afforded Frank similar patience because of the Champions League.

If we hadn’t been in Europe, I’d agree that he would most likely have pulled the trigger weeks earlier. Personally, I think Frank should have gone after the West Ham defeat.
I can’t see levy having stuck with Frank after the debacle of the games towards the end of the year last year
He sacked Nuno for similar levels of performance … But he did have a DOF who had a new guy lined up
But we will never know
I 100% agree that the West Ham game was a other turning point and issue that merited some action
But we know the leadership are weak as tinkle at the moment
 
Did they? Who?

I haven't seen anything that suggests that, so keen to hear what you know?
Not to respond for him but there have been lots of reports over the years of rival chairman disliking doing business with us. Even Simon Jordan who calls him a friend has mentioned that he preferred not doing business with Levy because of how difficult he was. Fergie said the same, Analus also and there have been many mentions over the years and I don't believe these people were talking purely about the price but more so his negotiating stance.

Yes being hard headed about the price you want for a player can be beneficial to the headline figure, but if that then means that sale takes all summer to happen (Berbatov, Kane, Modric) it gives little time for the replacement's also extended negotiations and for that player to bed into the squad. It also limited our ability to sell our unwanted players because everyone knew our pricing was quite unreasonable.
 
Numerous posters have voiced dissatisfaction of VV, Lange and the owners. I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but the underlying message seems to be “it would be so much better if we just brought Levy back”.

I think its more "nothing seems to have changed" personally, which currently it hasn't.

Pointing out we still have the same owners for me is key, because they are the same, that seems to be a major denial or blind spot for some more so IMO
 
Not to respond for him but there have been lots of reports over the years of rival chairman disliking doing business with us. Even Simon Jordan who calls him a friend has mentioned that he preferred not doing business with Levy because of how difficult he was. Fergie said the same, Analus also and there have been many mentions over the years and I don't believe these people were talking purely about the price but more so his negotiating stance.

Yes being hard headed about the price you want for a player can be beneficial to the headline figure, but if that then means that sale takes all summer to happen (Berbatov, Kane, Modric) it gives little time for the replacement's also extended negotiations and for that player to bed into the squad. It also limited our ability to sell our unwanted players because everyone knew our pricing was quite unreasonable.

Yeh, no denial for me on that, but was ref business world so I suspected he meant away from football, which he did as he DM me (thanks @glorygloryeze)

I don't deny the second paragraph either, but in the context of the owners removing him, they could have back then also, I suspect despite the moments in the market he failed previously they didn't remove him then because he was making them too much money.........I don't for one second believe they removed him last summer for it either TBH.....
 
I think its more "nothing seems to have changed" personally, which currently it hasn't.

Pointing out we still have the same owners for me is key, because they are the same, that seems to be a major denial or blind spot for some more so IMO

But the criticism of them seems more vocal because Levy is no longer around. Posters that afforded Levy 25 years seem uncomfortable allowing VV and Lange more than 1 season.

For the record, I also want new owners. That most likely means VV and Lange will go which I’m not necessarily against, I just find the discrepancy quite amusing when it comes to fans tolerance levels and patience.
 
But the criticism of them seems more vocal because Levy is no longer around. Posters that afforded Levy 25 years seem uncomfortable allowing VV and Lange more than 1 season.

For the record, I also want new owners. That most likely means VV and Lange will go which I’m not necessarily against, I just find the discrepancy quite amusing when it comes to fans tolerance levels and patience.

Last season was the worst season we have had in 25 years though so people are naturally going to question whats what, DL or no DL people would be doing that, surely?? I mean people are having the same arguments about the nuance of Ange and Franks seasons.

Depends what how you view patience, DL build a club in and upwards trajectory from where it was and oversaw the longest period of sustained growth in terms of league positions, Europe and done it building a monumental infrastructure which isn't seen anywhere else in football and did it without it being his own money.......I think in some cases DL earned the patience I gave him, I won't lie with that, I felt he earnt in even if it was massively frustrating at times. And yeh VV and Lange deserve patience of their own, doesn't mean last season can't be called what it was either, both can be true........
 
Last season was the worst season we have had in 25 years though so people are naturally going to question whats what, DL or no DL people would be doing that, surely?? I mean people are having the same arguments about the nuance of Ange and Franks seasons.

Depends what how you view patience, DL build a club in and upwards trajectory from where it was and oversaw the longest period of sustained growth in terms of league positions, Europe and done it building a monumental infrastructure which isn't seen anywhere else in football and did it without it being his own money.......I think in some cases DL earned the patience I gave him, I won't lie with that, I felt he earnt in even if it was massively frustrating at times. And yeh VV and Lange deserve patience of their own, doesn't mean last season can't be called what it was either, both can be true........


Yeah, I don’t expect anyone to be happy with the team’s performances last season. But let’s not forget that we also finished 17th the previous campaign with Levy still in charge, so it’s hard to argue that the decline has been sudden. In my view, things have been gradually heading in the wrong direction since 2019.

There have obviously been ups and downs along the way, but the overall trajectory has been downward for six or seven years now. That’s not a small sample size. Personally, I wasn’t comfortable giving Levy any more time. No one should be granted a lifetime pass, even if they achieved great things during the early and middle stages of their tenure.

Even the top-four finishes that the club appeared to cherish became increasingly infrequent. We managed just one since 2019, in 2022. For years, the club appeared to prioritise securing Champions League qualification over winning trophies. There was even an additional Champions League place available for fifth this season and in previous campaigns, and we still couldn’t take advantage of it.

Out of interest, how much more time would you have been willing to give him?
 
Yes, because their emotional needs were being met. Yet the same man, probably operating in exactly the same way as he always had, was in charge. Go figure.
Our expectations were lower in those days? At that stage the fans hadn't been fed the narrative of the stadium being "the game-changer" that became established once we had moved.
 
Yeah, I don’t expect anyone to be happy with the team’s performances last season. But let’s not forget that we also finished 17th the previous campaign with Levy still in charge, so it’s hard to argue that the decline has been sudden. In my view, things have been gradually heading in the wrong direction since 2019.

There have obviously been ups and downs along the way, but the overall trajectory has been downward for six or seven years now. That’s not a small sample size. Personally, I wasn’t comfortable giving Levy any more time. No one should be granted a lifetime pass, even if they achieved great things during the early and middle stages of their tenure.

Even the top-four finishes that the club appeared to cherish became increasingly infrequent. We managed just one since 2019, in 2022. For years, the club appeared to prioritise securing Champions League qualification over winning trophies. There was even an additional Champions League place available for fifth this season and in previous campaigns, and we still couldn’t take advantage of it.

Out of interest, how much more time would you have been willing to give him?

Sometimes change for changes sake needs to happen, DL had built up a certain level on animosity (obvious on this thread) that hung over the fan relationship with club, and there were legitimate concerns that he had hit a ceiling with his approach.

That said, the 6 or 7 years, sometimes 10, sometime more, re downward trajectory narrative is vastly overstated.
- We literally were 4th, five seasons ago (2022, 3 years post your 2019 statement)
- We were 5th, three seasons ago
- We were in SF of domestic cup twice, in that same five seasons
- We won the Europa League two seasons ago.

This is inherently the issue with serious football discussion and nuance.
- Tottenham went on an extraordinary run of league results from 04/05 season all the way to 23/24 (19 seasons with only 3 times out top 6)
- Despite Chelsea, City and Saudi Sportswashing Machine coming with money doping, and increased competition from better run clubs and rival of clubs like Villa.
- There always was going to be some drop off post our best manager/team combination in modern era and moving on of the current best player in the world, to paint it as some monumental fudge up is just too simplistic a perspective.
- Covid seriously hurt the club exactly at the point when the stadium was supposed to help

There is too much of a lazy narrative to paint the last 6-10 years or entire ENIC/DL period as a failure.

The last 2 years have been an utter clusterfudge, that is the story (if we had got 5th/6th this year, there would be no narrative re years of decline). The real question is why the last 2 years have gone so bad.
- Why have two manager hires failed to get a grasp on the PL (Jose/Conte never even looked like dropping outside top half)
- Recruitment with a serious nuance, why has the squad managed in both Europa/CL but looked horrid in PL (balance, type of player, physicality, is it a profiling mistake?). To say our recruitment is brick (i.e. bad players) is again OTT, balance and gaps for sure.
- Injuries, this gets swept under the rug every time, but no recruitment strategy, no squad depth model can compensate for 14 injured players, none.
- Why has our model gone from 5th highest spend and punching slightly above our weight to 5th highest spend and performing way below (except in Europe).

Re your two questions (even though not aimed at me)
- The club prioritized CL finishes because the financial model required it (perhaps our new/old owners will change this, lets see)
- Keeping Levy with same set of rules/controls (put in place by same owners we currently have) in place made no sense. The only model in which keeping him made sense was with more delegation of authority and him focusing on working with FA/UEFA (just like Dein used to get Scum favours) and the overall commercial side and continued development of Tottenham.
 
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