Daniel Levy - Chairman

[DubaiSpur]

Well its been widely covered on forums and the press that their intimating the increase

we have a ticket increase for next season already confirmed so we know what’s happening..

Liverpool are run like we were 3 years ago... writhing was in harmony ok and off the pitch. It can easily change and doesn’t take much

Oh, we did have a ticket increase confirmed, but the club probably thought they were being generous by pinning it below inflation.

I'm intimating that the club might possibly revisit that generosity in light of all this - on top of the furlough nonsense. Don't count it out, is all.

As for Liverpool, well, the point is, they're run much better than we are now - on and off the pitch.

And even if it all goes tits up... in 10 years of FSG ownership, on the field, they've got a Champions League trophy to show for it, and will have a PL title as well. Off the field, they paid their staff through this crisis, and I doubt the U-turn they made will do any lasting damage to their self-image and perception as a club that gives a damn about ordinary folk (whether or not it's deserved).

We've had 20 years of ENIC - twice as long. On the field, we have one League Cup to show for it. Off the field, we're gleefully stiffing our staff and the taxpayer while Levy gets his excuses in early for why that is likely to continue - morally wrong, and a PR disaster on all fronts.

I'd say they got the infinitely better deal with their owners, in a way we just haven't with that useless tax-exile lump who owns us.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Anyway, the Trust have released a pretty measured statement on the whole sordid disaster -

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thfc-staffing-decisions-amid-covid-19-thst-position

I think it's the most measured take you can get - far more measured than I am at this farce. In short, the Trust clarifies that;

• there is no top up past 80% - every staff member has had a straight 20 pay cut.
• Club will apply for furlough money for 220 staff.
• Casual and matchday staff are also being furloughed.
• In the furlough cases, the club will pay staff 4/5ths of their wages and then claim that amount back from the government.

I know some people thought the club were topping it up - they aren't.

As for rationale, the Trust acknowledges the arguments made by folk on here as well - the club is in difficult financial circumstances, it was a pressure move on the players to get them to agree to pay cuts,and so on. It isn't condemning the use of the furlough scheme - I would have in the harshest possible terms, so they're more measured than me on that.

However, the Trust also points out that the move utterly, comprehensively backfired. Players have (rightly) seen wage cuts as a means to funnel revenue into club profits and the pockets of the owners - not to pay ordinary working-class staff. I know that's what Levy would have used it for, at least, so I can't really blame the players for banding together and rejecting that out of hand. And all we have to show for it is two weeks of relentlessly atrocious PR, angry staff, angry fans and (no doubt) somewhat warier potential sponsors.

To help the situation, the Trust suggests that Spurs top up the wages of the staff to 400%, guarantee no redundancies until June, and make their reasoning public for why using the furlough for 80% is necessary for the club - if they had done that in the first place, the PR disaster of the last two weeks would have been avoided, but better late than never. After that, the Trust suggests transparency to make it clear to the players where their cut wages will be going (to the staff, foundations, etc.) as a means to get them onside (for the whole league, not just Spurs).

They're all reasonable suggestions. And it offers the Club an out - 'we listened to our fans/Trust, we're clarifying that we will top up all wages to 400%, we will conduct outreach to players, etc.'

I hope the club takes it. It isn't too late to be a responsible actor for once.

I wish we as a fanbase held our owners with just the tiniest bit of accountability, like Liverpool's fanbase does, but that's dreaming. At the least, the Trust's suggestions are a conciliatory way to salvage some PR out of this.

You mention that we've had "angry staff". Not saying there hasn't been, but I haven't seen any comment from any of the staff being furloughed or having their wages cut. Has there been stuff on social media from them? I'd normally expect it to be picked up and quoted by people that I do follow. Genuinely interested to know what the reaction from them has been.

Re the part (from the Trust) about guaranteeing no redundancies before June. I would have thought that was the purpose of the furloughing and salary cut for April and May, no?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Oh, we did have a ticket increase confirmed, but the club probably thought they were being generous by pinning it below inflation.

I'm intimating that the club might possibly revisit that generosity in light of all this - on top of the furlough nonsense. Don't count it out, is all.

As for Liverpool, well, the point is, they're run much better than we are now - on and off the pitch.

And even if it all goes tits up... in 10 years of FSG ownership, on the field, they've got a Champions League trophy to show for it, and will have a PL title as well. Off the field, they paid their staff through this crisis, and I doubt the U-turn they made will do any lasting damage to their self-image and perception as a club that gives a damn about ordinary folk (whether or not it's deserved).

We've had 20 years of ENIC - twice as long. On the field, we have one League Cup to show for it. Off the field, we're gleefully stiffing our staff and the taxpayer while Levy gets his excuses in early for why that is likely to continue - morally wrong, and a PR disaster on all fronts.

I'd say they got the infinitely better deal with their owners, in a way we just haven't with that useless tax-exile lump who owns us.

Your entitled to your opinion as always
So am I
So are we all
Pool have done amazingly well lately and have just had 3/4s of an incredible season
But their not perfect and neither are we
The owners you highlight used their ways and means do force people out of their houses to help with their development plans
This is a club where they supported a racist player with T Shirts!!!!
Their fans smashed up several buses of the opposition fans with hardly a peep fork their owners condoning that behaviour
They hacked the Emirates Marketing Project scouting database to see their plans and targets
And that all in the last 5/6 years

 

[DubaiSpur]

You mention that we've had "angry staff". Not saying there hasn't been, but I haven't seen any comment from any of the staff being furloughed or having their wages cut. Has there been stuff on social media from them? I'd normally expect it to be picked up and quoted by people that I do follow. Genuinely interested to know what the reaction from them has been.

Re the part (from the Trust) about guaranteeing no redundancies before June. I would have thought that was the purpose of the furloughing and salary cut for April and May, no?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...push-ahead-20-per-cent-wage-cuts-furloughing/

Here you go, mate. Relevant bits -

'Despite first receiving the news by email just half-an-hour before last week’s public announcement, employees had hoped that the subsequent criticism may have persuaded Levy to back out of the cuts.


There was also a hope that he may modify the original plans and agree to top up the wages of furloughed staff, as Norwich City, Bournemouth and Liverpool have done.


The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust approached the board to suggest that Levy and the club’s players could pay back the money employees will lose.


But the second email indicates Levy is pushing ahead with his original plan for all non-playing staff, including him and the rest of the board, to earn 20 per cent less than their normal wage for the next two months.


There is no mention of a deferral or the money they give up for April and May ever being paid back to employees if the season restarts and is completed.


Other than being upset and worried over their loss of wages, employees are annoyed there was no consultation process and that, so far, Tottenham staff are seemingly being treated differently to employees at other clubs.

There is also disappointment that, almost a week after the original announcement, Mourinho and his players have made no comment about the cuts or their own situations.


Premier League players have been holding discussions over a proposed 30 per cent wage cut and many managers could follow suit once the situation regarding the salaries of their squads becomes clearer.


Tottenham employees who have not been furloughed fear their workload will increase because of around half of the 550 staff being furloughed and that they will now be asked to do more while being paid less.


One source told Telegraph Sport: “People are angry and upset. Many are worried about their mortgages and other bills. Other clubs have furloughed staff, but at least they have agreed to top up their wages.


“We are still yet to hear whether or not the players and the manager will take wage cuts, and there has been no indication people will ever get the money back if the season can resume.


“This has left a bad feeling that will linger with a lot of people for a long time after the coronavirus has hopefully passed.”

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Anyway, the Trust have released a pretty measured statement on the whole sordid disaster -

https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thfc-staffing-decisions-amid-covid-19-thst-position

I think it's the most measured take you can get - far more measured than I am at this farce. In short, the Trust clarifies that;

• there is no top up past 80% - every staff member has had a straight 20 pay cut.
• Club will apply for furlough money for 220 staff.
• Casual and matchday staff are also being furloughed.
• In the furlough cases, the club will pay staff 4/5ths of their wages and then claim that amount back from the government.

I know some people thought the club were topping it up - they aren't.

As for rationale, the Trust acknowledges the arguments made by folk on here as well - the club is in difficult financial circumstances, it was a pressure move on the players to get them to agree to pay cuts,and so on. It isn't condemning the use of the furlough scheme - I would have in the harshest possible terms, so they're more measured than me on that.

However, the Trust also points out that the move utterly, comprehensively backfired. Players have (rightly) seen wage cuts as a means to funnel revenue into club profits and the pockets of the owners - not to pay ordinary working-class staff. I know that's what Levy would have used it for, at least, so I can't really blame the players for banding together and rejecting that out of hand. And all we have to show for it is two weeks of relentlessly atrocious PR, angry staff, angry fans and (no doubt) somewhat warier potential sponsors.

To help the situation, the Trust suggests that Spurs top up the wages of the staff to 400%, guarantee no redundancies until June, and make their reasoning public for why using the furlough for 80% is necessary for the club - if they had done that in the first place, the PR disaster of the last two weeks would have been avoided, but better late than never. After that, the Trust suggests transparency to make it clear to the players where their cut wages will be going (to the staff, foundations, etc.) as a means to get them onside (for the whole league, not just Spurs).

They're all reasonable suggestions. And it offers the Club an out - 'we listened to our fans/Trust, we're clarifying that we will top up all wages to 400%, we will conduct outreach to players, etc.'

I hope the club takes it. It isn't too late to be a responsible actor for once.

I wish we as a fanbase held our owners with just the tiniest bit of accountability, like Liverpool's fanbase does, but that's dreaming. At the least, the Trust's suggestions are a conciliatory way to salvage some PR out of this.

I’m all for the TRUST as I believe someone doing something is better than nothing happening at all
But their not really competent for the roles their being asked to do IMO
Put a lot of angry people in the room and you just get more angry people

 

[DubaiSpur]

Your entitled to your opinion as always
So am I
So are we all
Pool have done amazingly well lately and have just had 3/4s of an incredible season
But their not perfect and neither are we
The owners you highlight used their ways and means do force people out of their houses to help with their development plans
This is a club where they supported a racist player with T Shirts!!!!
Their fans smashed up several buses of the opposition fans with hardly a peep fork their owners condoning that behaviour
They hacked the Emirates Marketing Project scouting database to see their plans and targets
And that all in the last 5/6 years

They're not perfect - not suggesting that, by any means. Victimhood suits them, for one, and obscures their flaws.

But they're better run than we are. Factually ,there is absolutely no arguing that, imo.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...push-ahead-20-per-cent-wage-cuts-furloughing/

Here you go, mate. Relevant bits -

'Despite first receiving the news by email just half-an-hour before last week’s public announcement, employees had hoped that the subsequent criticism may have persuaded Levy to back out of the cuts.


There was also a hope that he may modify the original plans and agree to top up the wages of furloughed staff, as Norwich City, Bournemouth and Liverpool have done.


The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust approached the board to suggest that Levy and the club’s players could pay back the money employees will lose.


But the second email indicates Levy is pushing ahead with his original plan for all non-playing staff, including him and the rest of the board, to earn 20 per cent less than their normal wage for the next two months.


There is no mention of a deferral or the money they give up for April and May ever being paid back to employees if the season restarts and is completed.


Other than being upset and worried over their loss of wages, employees are annoyed there was no consultation process and that, so far, Tottenham staff are seemingly being treated differently to employees at other clubs.

There is also disappointment that, almost a week after the original announcement, Mourinho and his players have made no comment about the cuts or their own situations.


Premier League players have been holding discussions over a proposed 30 per cent wage cut and many managers could follow suit once the situation regarding the salaries of their squads becomes clearer.


Tottenham employees who have not been furloughed fear their workload will increase because of around half of the 550 staff being furloughed and that they will now be asked to do more while being paid less.


One source told Telegraph Sport: “People are angry and upset. Many are worried about their mortgages and other bills. Other clubs have furloughed staff, but at least they have agreed to top up their wages.


“We are still yet to hear whether or not the players and the manager will take wage cuts, and there has been no indication people will ever get the money back if the season can resume.


“This has left a bad feeling that will linger with a lot of people for a long time after the coronavirus has hopefully passed.”

Just want to highlight that the first iterations of those articles also said we were furloughing all the back room staff
None mentioned the 40% until the trust did their bit (credit to them) to highlight the facts all be it they did it to hammer the club

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They're not perfect - not suggesting that, by any means. Victimhood suits them, for one, and obscures their flaws.

But they're better run than we are. Factually ,there is absolutely no arguing that, imo.

I guess it comes down to measures of what success is
In football terms it’s trophies and they have won the biggest cup in the world only last season
Of course that was against us

 

[scaramanga]

You mention that we've had "angry staff". Not saying there hasn't been, but I haven't seen any comment from any of the staff being furloughed or having their wages cut. Has there been stuff on social media from them? I'd normally expect it to be picked up and quoted by people that I do follow. Genuinely interested to know what the reaction from them has been.

Re the part (from the Trust) about guaranteeing no redundancies before June. I would have thought that was the purpose of the furloughing and salary cut for April and May, no?

That's a fudging ridiculous request. No person or business can make guarantees like that.

How the fudge can Levy know what will happen in the next couple of months?

This is just as ridiculous as them demanding transfers. fudging neighbourhood watch cretins.

 

[DubaiSpur]

I guess it comes down to measures of what success is
In football terms it’s trophies and they have won the biggest cup in the world only last season
Of course that was against us

On the field - yes, pretty much. And will win the title this season. That too.

Off the field - success at the very, very least means being able to treat the ordinary, non-millionaire folk who work for you well, or at least comparably to the clubs around you.

Apparently we haven't even got that bit right.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...push-ahead-20-per-cent-wage-cuts-furloughing/

Here you go, mate. Relevant bits -

'Despite first receiving the news by email just half-an-hour before last week’s public announcement, employees had hoped that the subsequent criticism may have persuaded Levy to back out of the cuts.


There was also a hope that he may modify the original plans and agree to top up the wages of furloughed staff, as Norwich City, Bournemouth and Liverpool have done.


The Tottenham Hotspur Supporters’ Trust approached the board to suggest that Levy and the club’s players could pay back the money employees will lose.


But the second email indicates Levy is pushing ahead with his original plan for all non-playing staff, including him and the rest of the board, to earn 20 per cent less than their normal wage for the next two months.


There is no mention of a deferral or the money they give up for April and May ever being paid back to employees if the season restarts and is completed.


Other than being upset and worried over their loss of wages, employees are annoyed there was no consultation process and that, so far, Tottenham staff are seemingly being treated differently to employees at other clubs.

There is also disappointment that, almost a week after the original announcement, Mourinho and his players have made no comment about the cuts or their own situations.


Premier League players have been holding discussions over a proposed 30 per cent wage cut and many managers could follow suit once the situation regarding the salaries of their squads becomes clearer.


Tottenham employees who have not been furloughed fear their workload will increase because of around half of the 550 staff being furloughed and that they will now be asked to do more while being paid less.


One source told Telegraph Sport: “People are angry and upset. Many are worried about their mortgages and other bills. Other clubs have furloughed staff, but at least they have agreed to top up their wages.


“We are still yet to hear whether or not the players and the manager will take wage cuts, and there has been no indication people will ever get the money back if the season can resume.


“This has left a bad feeling that will linger with a lot of people for a long time after the coronavirus has hopefully passed.”

Thanks. "A source" is always a bit suspect, and those quotes could have been made by anyone, but I fully understand that employees are probably not going to put their name forward.

The part I don't get is this "..., employees are annoyed there was no consultation process ".
An employer cannot just reduce someone's wages on a whim, the employee has to agree. Of course the alternative to not agreeing would probably be redundancy, so it's Hobson's choice in reality, but there would have to be some kind of dialogue around options. Maybe that's ongoing now.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

On the field - yes, pretty much. And will win the title this season. That too.

Off the field - success at the very, very least means being able to treat the ordinary, non-millionaire folk who work for you well, or at least comparably to the clubs around you.

Apparently we haven't even got that bit right.

Liverpool treat their fans as consumers just like we do
The difference is their starting form a lower base of fab economically hence the push against anything in £££
Hence the push their a socialist club
Fair play to their fans
But everyone of those fans would have still turned up if they won the league to celebrate it like nothing and changed
That’s the game now
And as for their staff they needed spit the dog and his mates to pipe up to change their mind... that would be like Sol Campbell commenting on us

 

[DubaiSpur]

That's a fudging ridiculous request. No person or business can make guarantees like that.

How the fudge can Levy know what will happen in the next couple of months?

This is just as ridiculous as them demanding transfers. fudging neighbourhood watch cretins.

https://www.lcfc.com/news/1654826/lcfc-statement-players-committed-to-future-vision/press-release

'The Club intends to retain all permanent staff and does not intend to utilise the Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme. All casual matchday and non-matchday staff will be paid to the end of the 2019/20 season, as the games were previously scheduled.'

Apparently Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha knows what will happen in the next couple of months better than Levy does. Some chairman, ours.

 

[scaramanga]

Thanks. "A source" is always a bit suspect, and those quotes could have been made by anyone, but I fully understand that employees are probably not going to put their name forward.

The part I don't get is this "..., employees are annoyed there was no consultation process ".
An employer cannot just reduce someone's wages on a whim, the employee has to agree. Of course the alternative to not agreeing would probably be redundancy, so it's Hobson's choice in reality, but there would have to be some kind of dialogue around options. Maybe that's ongoing now.

For that number of staff there's a minimum consultation period.

Either employees and reps knew about it some time ago, or the announcement was the start of the consultation period with the actions to follow.

 

[scaramanga]

https://www.lcfc.com/news/1654826/lcfc-statement-players-committed-to-future-vision/press-release

'The Club intends to retain all permanent staff and does not intend to utilise the Government’s Coronavirus Job Retention Scheme. All casual matchday and non-matchday staff will be paid to the end of the 2019/20 season, as the games were previously scheduled.'

Apparently Aiyawatt Srivaddhanaprabha knows what will happen in the next couple of months better than Levy does. Some chairman, ours.

Intending to is far from guaranteeing to.

In fact, statements of intent have no value whatsoever.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Thanks. "A source" is always a bit suspect, and those quotes could have been made by anyone, but I fully understand that employees are probably not going to put their name forward.

The part I don't get is this "..., employees are annoyed there was no consultation process ".
An employer cannot just reduce someone's wages on a whim, the employee has to agree. Of course the alternative to not agreeing would probably be redundancy, so it's Hobson's choice in reality, but there would have to be some kind of dialogue around options. Maybe that's ongoing now.

I think when you're reading a story about organizations, 'a source' is usually an employee that fears being sacked if they're identified.

Of course a lot of tabloids use 'a source' freely, and in football transfer rumours it means absolutely nothing, but it's still got its place for reputable papers. Which the Telegraph (just about) still is.

I think you're right in that the choices presented were simply 'agree to a wage cut' or 'be laid off'. Not much consultation there, I'm sure you'd agree.

 

[scaramanga]

I think when you're reading a story about organizations, 'a source' is usually an employee that fears being sacked if they're identified.

Of course a lot of tabloids use 'a source' freely, and in football transfer rumours it means absolutely nothing, but it's still got its place for reputable papers. Which the Telegraph (just about) still is.

I think you're right in that the choices presented were simply 'agree to a wage cut' or 'be laid off'. Not much consultation there, I'm sure you'd agree.

The consultation is a legal requirement in UK (possibly EU?) employment law.

Nobody actually uses it to consult, it's just a restriction that lobbyists for trades unions insisted on. In reality, what happens is that the employer gives a letter to staff inviting them to consult, lowering morale for the rest of the staff weeks before they needed to and then makes them redundant anyway having paid them a few weeks wages and making everyone else's jobs less secure.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Intending to is far from guaranteeing to.

In fact, statements of intent have no value whatsoever.

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/spo...ws/stoke-city-staff-wages-coronavirus-3968798

'Stoke City match day staff have been told they will be paid despite games being postponed and full-time staff will have salaries guaranteed for the next five months.'

Not even June - all the way up until September.

Huh. Guess Peter Coates and Bet365 know more about what's going to happen than Levy does. Again, some chairman of ours.

I can keep finding examples,but it would be a waste of my time if you still think it's something insane to meekly request something that other clubs have been guaranteeing long before Levy decided to sink the club's PR down the Thames.

 

[scaramanga]

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/spo...ws/stoke-city-staff-wages-coronavirus-3968798

'Stoke City match day staff have been told they will be paid despite games being postponed and full-time staff will have salaries guaranteed for the next five months.'

Not even June - all the way up until September.

Huh. Guess Peter Coates and Bet365 know more about what's going to happen than Levy does. Again, some chairman of ours.

I can keep finding examples,but it would be a waste of my time.

That's a ridiculous guarantee and one they can't stand by if the future doesn't go as they predict.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The consultation is a legal requirement in UK (possibly EU?) employment law.

Nobody actually uses it to consult, it's just a restriction that lobbyists for trades unions insisted on. In reality, what happens is that the employer gives a letter to staff inviting them to consult, lowering morale for the rest of the staff weeks before they needed to and then makes them redundant anyway having paid them a few weeks wages and making everyone else's jobs less secure.

Due to the numbers involved (over 99) we have to give a minimum 90 days notice of change in terms normally
I don’t know if this counts but it could explain why people arent getting paid Furlough until end of June when organisations will claim back what they have paid
I should say this is NOT my area of expertise at all before someone jumps on to correct me