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Climate Change

thfcsteff said:
Brilliant.

Is there anyone who can seriously deny climate change anymore? I mean, I know some hung on for a while, but now?
Click to expand...
There is still a fair portion of folk who think it is just the natural cycle of the Earth cooling and heating - i.e. not caused by humans. This is one of the FF industry attack vectors on renewables, and it sounds a reasonably plausible explanation to some, if you are primed for that argument. And billions have been spent targeting folks with this misinformation, priming them for this argument, so it is not suprising some of it sticks.

Someone in my own family gave me this same argument there at some get-together. Normally I wouldn't bother trying to convince them of their mistake, it is rarely worth the effort, but I just consumed the right amount of wine to overcome my better judgment. I gave them the science behind it - Earth should be heading into an ice age (Milankovich cycles), etc... and bingo. They changed their minds for the most part. So, feeling confident I decided to apply the coup de grace and explain the fossil fuel industry misinformation campaign and how this one industry that doesn't want the manmade argument to be true openly admit it is true. So I was mildly chuffed with this outcome. I talked to the same family member then a couple of months later, and he was back to his original position of denial.
 
Rorschach said:
There is still a fair portion of folk who think it is just the natural cycle of the Earth cooling and heating - i.e. not caused by humans. This is one of the FF industry attack vectors on renewables, and it sounds a reasonably plausible explanation to some, if you are primed for that argument. And billions have been spent targeting folks with this misinformation, priming them for this argument, so it is not suprising some of it sticks.

Someone in my own family gave me this same argument there at some get-together. Normally I wouldn't bother trying to convince them of their mistake, it is rarely worth the effort, but I just consumed the right amount of wine to overcome my better judgment. I gave them the science behind it - Earth should be heading into an ice age (Milankovich cycles), etc... and bingo. They changed their minds for the most part. So, feeling confident I decided to apply the coup de grace and explain the fossil fuel industry misinformation campaign and how this one industry that doesn't want the manmade argument to be true openly admit it is true. So I was mildly chuffed with this outcome. I talked to the same family member then a couple of months later, and he was back to his original position of denial.
Click to expand...
'Chuffed' with the outcome, but ultimately a waste of time? :)
 
To deny something is going on, just from a cursory glance, is madness.
And I'm not quite sure what angle they're coming from?
Can't be arsed with the conversation?
It's gonna cost me?
Changing the way I go about life is too inconvenient?
I'm behind what the big corps are talking about?

For me it's not so much about 'climate change' per se (no I'm not denying it :)), but a path correction from early industrial times.

My opening gambit has always been....if aliens came down to this world and assessed the situation of fuel resources, in their logical Spock way, would think, that hot orange thing shines all day everyday (somewhere), that body of water moves in and then out every 6 hours, that invisible wind blows and blows, water will naturally fall due to gravity. And it appears to do this forever and a day without request.

Then they look at the humans approach...
Drilling miles out at sea, miles into the seabed to extract some black liquid.
Blasting liquid deep underground to fracture rocks to release gas or oil.
Using some mad lethal science, and then containing it to give them energy but fingers crossed it doesn't kill a continent.

They would 100% conclude it's madness (it's not logical, Captain)

But it's not our fault, we were at the mercy of invention, it's not a path we should have predicted, the timeline was what it was.
But it, with hindsight, was the wrong path. That fact needs accepting.

So we need to endeavour to move away from that, and as quickly as possible. Not because of the climate (which of course would massively benefit as a side effect) BUT because it a chance to correct course. The aliens will tell you, the power sources we recognise are infinite, the ones you have chosen are finite, WTF are you doing it's illogical. That should be the biggest argument if you are thinking of future generations.

Finally, if money gets in the way of this...we are fudging stupid 🤬
 
Rorschach said:
My own veg has suffered badly this summer from the heat stress. There was a cold spell before that, so the plants got confused. My lettuce and onions went to seed (bolted) quickly, making them all but inedible. All my legumes had problems too. I look at it as a learning experience, as it is not my livelihood, but as I have always said on here, food will be the climate impact that hits us first in this corner of the world. Multiple bread baskets failing at once is only a matter of time.

Season 6!! I'm still on season 2. I better catch up.
Click to expand...

Stellar year for the apple tree
(Lack of south westerlies has helped)


IMG20260723130446.jpg
 
Rorschach said:
They look amazing. I bought a small apple tree there a good few months back and it is still sitting in the pot outside the window, crying. The poor fecker produced 1 apple. A tiny one. Haha.
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Fruit trees often cycle between heavy and low crops on alternative years, so you may have more luck next summer
 
Gutter Boy said:
Fruit trees often cycle between heavy and low crops on alternative years, so you may have more luck next summer
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I had read that, but ours bangs them out like a trojan every year (ironically one of the reasons a tree might low crop the next year). Far too many in fact...so it does it's natural drop, then I may pick a few off to help it get to full development with the rest.

Being coastal, it can get wind burn plus beaten up by successive strong winds which can really deplete the crop, or even the blossom if the timing of a stormy period is bad.

That said, she gives it her all every year 😍

(Might look into the possibility of some homemade cider😎)
 
Rorschach said:
There is still a fair portion of folk who think it is just the natural cycle of the Earth cooling and heating - i.e. not caused by humans. This is one of the FF industry attack vectors on renewables, and it sounds a reasonably plausible explanation to some, if you are primed for that argument. And billions have been spent targeting folks with this misinformation, priming them for this argument, so it is not suprising some of it sticks.

Someone in my own family gave me this same argument there at some get-together. Normally I wouldn't bother trying to convince them of their mistake, it is rarely worth the effort, but I just consumed the right amount of wine to overcome my better judgment. I gave them the science behind it - Earth should be heading into an ice age (Milankovich cycles), etc... and bingo. They changed their minds for the most part. So, feeling confident I decided to apply the coup de grace and explain the fossil fuel industry misinformation campaign and how this one industry that doesn't want the manmade argument to be true openly admit it is true. So I was mildly chuffed with this outcome. I talked to the same family member then a couple of months later, and he was back to his original position of denial.
Click to expand...
A noble effort nonetheless.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Fruit trees often cycle between heavy and low crops on alternative years, so you may have more luck next summer
Click to expand...
Well this tree should be in the ground but there is work happening where it is supposed to be planted, so it is sitting in a big pot, just about hanging on. I'm surprised to see any fruit on it. This variety needs two other apple trees close by to pollinate, so there must be two somewhere
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
To deny something is going on, just from a cursory glance, is madness.
And I'm not quite sure what angle they're coming from?
Can't be arsed with the conversation?
It's gonna cost me?
Changing the way I go about life is too inconvenient?
I'm behind what the big corps are talking about?

For me it's not so much about 'climate change' per se (no I'm not denying it :)), but a path correction from early industrial times.

My opening gambit has always been....if aliens came down to this world and assessed the situation of fuel resources, in their logical Spock way, would think, that hot orange thing shines all day everyday (somewhere), that body of water moves in and then out every 6 hours, that invisible wind blows and blows, water will naturally fall due to gravity. And it appears to do this forever and a day without request.

Then they look at the humans approach...
Drilling miles out at sea, miles into the seabed to extract some black liquid.
Blasting liquid deep underground to fracture rocks to release gas or oil.
Using some mad lethal science, and then containing it to give them energy but fingers crossed it doesn't kill a continent.

They would 100% conclude it's madness (it's not logical, Captain)

But it's not our fault, we were at the mercy of invention, it's not a path we should have predicted, the timeline was what it was.
But it, with hindsight, was the wrong path. That fact needs accepting.

So we need to endeavour to move away from that, and as quickly as possible. Not because of the climate (which of course would massively benefit as a side effect) BUT because it a chance to correct course. The aliens will tell you, the power sources we recognise are infinite, the ones you have chosen are finite, WTF are you doing it's illogical. That should be the biggest argument if you are thinking of future generations.

Finally, if money gets in the way of this...we are fudging stupid 🤬
Click to expand...

The biggest argument always has to be that if we reach the climate change tipping point (which may already have happened), our species goes extinct and roosterroaches & jellyfish inherit the earth. That's the stakes at play for not halting and reversing the global temperature rise.
 
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