Carlyle takeover, was Cain Hoy takeover

[LesMedley]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Millsy_Yiddo:
You state:
"if they have taken the time to meet with representatives to discuss, as we did in this case, then they are interested enough to meet with representatives to discuss and that tends to lead to an eventual sale."
This ignores the fact that the discussions were about funding and not a takeover. I don't doubt (and indeed I fervently hope) that the Club will get funding for the stadium, but since a takeover was not on the table for discussion, then I'd suggest your logic, and indeed experience, are not relevant at the moment.
I also doubt that "they probably factored in being CL regulars by now". I'd suggest that they are far too competent as businessmen to "factor in" anything as fraught with difficulty as that. I stand by my previous assertion that they would not currently be able to maximize sale value and are therefore not likely to be willing sellers. I doubt that they indicated that "we 'might' be up for sale" for the reason I've given, and the fact that within a fortnight of Cain Hoy being made by the London Stock Exchange to "put up or shut up", they've "shut up".

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Millsy_Yiddo:
You state:
"if they have taken the time to meet with representatives to discuss, as we did in this case, then they are interested enough to meet with representatives to discuss and that tends to lead to an eventual sale."
This ignores the fact that the discussions were about funding and not a takeover. I don't doubt (and indeed I fervently hope) that the Club will get funding for the stadium, but since a takeover was not on the table for discussion, then I'd suggest your logic, and indeed experience, are not relevant at the moment.
I also doubt that "they probably factored in being CL regulars by now". I'd suggest that they are far too competent as businessmen to "factor in" anything as fraught with difficulty as that. I stand by my previous assertion that they would not currently be able to maximize sale value and are therefore not likely to be willing sellers. I doubt that they indicated that "we 'might' be up for sale" for the reason I've given, and the fact that within a fortnight of Cain Hoy being made by the London Stock Exchange to "put up or shut up", they've "shut up".

How do you know it wasn't on the table? Our press release said we were talking about funding. That doesn't mean they didn't talk about selling. The truth is seldom provided to us mortals in these situations.

In their planning they will have looked at multiple different scenarios, the risk that we aren't in the CL by the time we are ready to build the stadium will almost certainly have been considered. They have various choices to deal with this risk if it becomes a realisation, one of them may have been to avoid it completely by selling up. Delays to the stadium build will also have been considered.

I'm not saying this is what has happened by any means, just saying it's a potential reason among multiple multiple other less drastic ones. But if they did sell up in the near future I wouldn't be surprised.

I understand where you are coming from regarding maximising value. But there are multiple factors to take into consideration on that.

 

[LesMedley]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

How do you know it wasn't on the table? Our press release said we were talking about funding. That doesn't mean they didn't talk about selling. The truth is seldom provided to us mortals in these situations.

"12 September 2014

Statement re. press speculation

Tottenham Hotspur Limited ("THFC") notes the continuing press reports surrounding a potential takeover and the announcement released by Cain Hoy Enterprises, LLC ("Cain Hoy"). THFC confirms it is not in takeover discussions with Cain Hoy or any other party.

As stated in yesterday's announcement regarding the new stadium project, THFC has been in discussions with multiple providers of finance so that the optimum financing package for the project can be achieved and, in the course of those considerations, has met representatives of Cain Hoy. However, there are no ongoing discussions with Cain Hoy."

Now, you may think that the Club would tell a deliberate lie to the public in these very formal circumstances. I don't.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

"12 September 2014

Statement re. press speculation

Tottenham Hotspur Limited ("THFC") notes the continuing press reports surrounding a potential takeover and the announcement released by Cain Hoy Enterprises, LLC ("Cain Hoy"). THFC confirms it is not in takeover discussions with Cain Hoy or any other party.

As stated in yesterday's announcement regarding the new stadium project, THFC has been in discussions with multiple providers of finance so that the optimum financing package for the project can be achieved and, in the course of those considerations, has met representatives of Cain Hoy. However, there are no ongoing discussions with Cain Hoy."

Now, you may think that the Club would tell a deliberate lie to the public in these very formal circumstances. I don't.

That was at the beginning of the process, though, immediately after Cain Hoy had announced that they were considering a bid.

It is very likely that there was some takeover discussion between the two parties in the ten days or so before Cain Hoy announced that they would not be making a a bid for Spurs.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

"12 September 2014

Statement re. press speculation

Tottenham Hotspur Limited ("THFC") notes the continuing press reports surrounding a potential takeover and the announcement released by Cain Hoy Enterprises, LLC ("Cain Hoy"). THFC confirms it is not in takeover discussions with Cain Hoy or any other party.

As stated in yesterday's announcement regarding the new stadium project, THFC has been in discussions with multiple providers of finance so that the optimum financing package for the project can be achieved and, in the course of those considerations, has met representatives of Cain Hoy. However, there are no ongoing discussions with Cain Hoy."

Now, you may think that the Club would tell a deliberate lie to the public in these very formal circumstances. I don't.

About 6 months before my company was bought over, it was announced that someone was looking to buy us. We released a press statement detailing that there had been no discussions and that absolutely we were not for sale at any price. Six months later we were bought over by another company. As I said, these things rarely just come about by chance.

Just because we did not enter official takeover discussions with them does not mean that it was not on the table or that it was not discussed in the days coming up to Cain Hoy announcing they were considering a bid, and it also does not mean that Lewis et al aren't willing to sell at this moment in time if the price is right.

 

[LesMedley]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Neither Cain Hoy nor the club have suggested that a bid was on the table. Cain Hoy stated that they were at the early stage of preliminary investigations, (not takeover negotiations) which lasted a fortnight before they opted out. I believe that under Stock Exchange regulations they can't come back for a year, but someone else may be able to confirm or deny that. Of course ENIC would sell if the price were right, but at this stage with the CPO in the High Court and no funding in place, the price is highly unlikely to be right. Was your company in the same financial and development situation as Tottenham currently is? If so, did that situation change in the following six months?
"Just because we did not enter official takeover discussions with them does not mean that it was not on the table or that it was not discussed in the days coming up to Cain Hoy announcing they were considering a bid". Tottenham have denied that. Cain Hoy have not suggested it.
You may choose to believe that a bid was "on the table" when neither party has suggested so, and one has outright denied it. I don't.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Neither Cain Hoy nor the club have suggested that a bid was on the table. Cain Hoy stated that they were at the early stage of preliminary investigations, (not takeover negotiations) which lasted a fortnight before they opted out. I believe that under Stock Exchange regulations they can't come back for a year, but someone else may be able to confirm or deny that. Of course ENIC would sell if the price were right, but at this stage with the CPO in the High Court and no funding in place, the price is highly unlikely to be right. Was your company in the same financial and development situation as Tottenham currently is? If so, did that situation change in the following six months?
"Just because we did not enter official takeover discussions with them does not mean that it was not on the table or that it was not discussed in the days coming up to Cain Hoy announcing they were considering a bid". Tottenham have denied that. Cain Hoy have not suggested it.
You may choose to believe that a bid was "on the table" when neither party has suggested so, and one has outright denied it. I don't.

But there would very likely have been discussions between the two parties about a proposed takeover. And that, essentially, would almost certainly involve one or both parties naming a price at some point during negotiations. And if it was Cain Hoy who named a price, then that effectively constitutes an informal bid.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'm glad this distraction is over. I was sure it would have worked out badly (Glazer, Hicks, Gillett, Lerner style).

I don't think it's any surprise though. It's the least favourable time possible for ENIC to sell - just before all their efforts are about to be realised.

Hopefully the entitlement ****ers will quieten down a bit now.

 

[Millsy_Yiddo]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Neither Cain Hoy nor the club have suggested that a bid was on the table. Cain Hoy stated that they were at the early stage of preliminary investigations, (not takeover negotiations) which lasted a fortnight before they opted out. I believe that under Stock Exchange regulations they can't come back for a year, but someone else may be able to confirm or deny that. Of course ENIC would sell if the price were right, but at this stage with the CPO in the High Court and no funding in place, the price is highly unlikely to be right. Was your company in the same financial and development situation as Tottenham currently is? If so, did that situation change in the following six months?
"Just because we did not enter official takeover discussions with them does not mean that it was not on the table or that it was not discussed in the days coming up to Cain Hoy announcing they were considering a bid". Tottenham have denied that. Cain Hoy have not suggested it.
You may choose to believe that a bid was "on the table" when neither party has suggested so, and one has outright denied it. I don't.

I don't believe that a bid was on the table. At all. Nor am I suggesting it. I'm just surmising that these things don't happen by chance. There is usually some reason why another company makes a decision to 'consider an offer' for another, and that reason is often that they think the owners of the company they want to buyl are willing to sell. They get that information from somewhere rather than randomly approaching other companies. They didn't follow through with their offer for whatever reason. It doesn't mean an offer wasn't discussed and it doesn't mean that ENIC wouldn't be willing to consider others.

I don't see where we have denied that off the record discussions in the run up to Cain Hoy's announcement did or didn't happen, and Cain Hoy coming out and saying that they are 'considering a bid' would suggest to me that they did.

Regarding the price being right. It depends. If you look at Tottenham as a product. We know right now what the value of that product is. We know we aren't a CL club, we know what players we have, we know what assets we have etc etc etc. At this moment in time we don't really know the value the club will be after the stadium is built. We certainly can (and obviously will have estimated), but a risk averse business man may look at it from the perspective of throwing all the money at the stadium may not really be worth it if we come out the other end as still a non-champions league club sitting between 6th and 8th in the league. So they may consider the option of selling up now and allowing someone else to take on that risk.

I think you have taken my posts as me saying 'OMG Cain Hoy were about to buy us, someone will now come in and buy us'. I'm not, I'm just looking at potential options for the purposes of discussion. I'm happy with ENIC and Levy, I'd like to see us come out the other end of this with our new stadium and move on from strength to strength with them. Hopefully that is what happens.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Surely the simplest explanation, consistent with all statements by all parties, is that they were in discussions about financing the stadium. One option considered might have been buying a partial stake or a new share issue, which is not a takeover. This might have got the Cain Hoy people thinking, what if we buy the whole lot.

 

[Superhudd]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I'm glad this distraction is over. I was sure it would have worked out badly (Glazer, Hicks, Gillett, Lerner style).

I don't think it's any surprise though. It's the least favourable time possible for ENIC to sell - just before all their efforts are about to be realised.

Hopefully the entitlement ****ers will quieten down a bit now.

Theres that hand motion again.. I just cannot stop this week. :ross:

 

[scaramanga]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Surely the simplest explanation, consistent with all statements by all parties, is that they were in discussions about financing the stadium. One option considered might have been buying a partial stake or a new share issue, which is not a takeover. This might have got the Cain Hoy people thinking, what if we buy the whole lot.

I think the real questions are who leaked it to the press and why?

These kind of talks take place behind closed doors all the time, and unless the press or staff down the chain get wind of it that's where it stays. For one reason or another, the press were notified which forced the announcement.

 

[jts1882]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

I think the real questions are who leaked it to the press and why?

These kind of talks take place behind closed doors all the time, and unless the press or staff down the chain get wind of it that's where it stays. For one reason or another, the press were notified which forced the announcement.

At first glance, the leak doesn't favour either side. The initial Cain Hoy announcement seems to express some irritation (the without Spurs permission bit), which might lead one to think Spurs leaked it. If the idea of a takeover stake had been hinted at in discussions and was unwelcome, a Spurs leak could have been made to force Cain Hoy into making a decision for now to end the uncertainty. I suppose if they wanted to sell and they felt Cain Hoy were being too slow, it could likewise been have to force a decision. I can't see why Cain Hoy would leak it as it forced their hand, unless they had disagreements in their camp.

 

[LesMedley]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

At first glance, the leak doesn't favour either side. The initial Cain Hoy announcement seems to express some irritation (the without Spurs permission bit), which might lead one to think Spurs leaked it. If the idea of a takeover stake had been hinted at in discussions and was unwelcome, a Spurs leak could have been made to force Cain Hoy into making a decision for now to end the uncertainty. I suppose if they wanted to sell and they felt Cain Hoy were being too slow, it could likewise been have to force a decision. I can't see why Cain Hoy would leak it as it forced their hand, unless they had disagreements in their camp.

Cain Hoy announced it was commencing operations on 11th September. On 12th September it leaked or rather announced its "interest" in a takeover of the club. At that time very few in this country had ever heard of Cain Hoy in any of its guises. Tottenham immediately denied any sale discussions and stated the only discussions they had had, with among others Cain Hoy, was on funding the NPD. Immediately also, the media and other interested parties investigated who Cain Hoy were, what the background of its officers was, and what funds it might be able to generate, and broadcast it. On 15th September Cain Hoy announced it was backing a new development in Islington Square, which in reality had been under development for some months. A couple of weeks later on 25th September, they announced they had ceased their interest in Tottenham Hotspur. The result is that the media and the world and his wife have been discussing this new kid on the block for the last few weeks, while Cain Hoy have effectively done nothing. Now does anyone apart from me think this series of events was designed by Cain Hoy for the free publicity?
In my view the club may be sold; it may even be sold soon if an interested party is willing to pay well over the odds, but it is no more up for sale than it has been since 2001.
But as I said previously: time will tell.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

At first glance, the leak doesn't favour either side. The initial Cain Hoy announcement seems to express some irritation (the without Spurs permission bit), which might lead one to think Spurs leaked it. If the idea of a takeover stake had been hinted at in discussions and was unwelcome, a Spurs leak could have been made to force Cain Hoy into making a decision for now to end the uncertainty. I suppose if they wanted to sell and they felt Cain Hoy were being too slow, it could likewise been have to force a decision. I can't see why Cain Hoy would leak it as it forced their hand, unless they had disagreements in their camp.

It was simply PR for the newly created Cain Hoy.

We certainly didn't benefit from it. You could arguably say it cost us points by poisoning the atmosphere for the West Brom game and also potentially unsettled the coaching and playing staff.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

It was simply PR for the newly created Cain Hoy.

We certainly didn't benefit from it. You could arguably say it cost us points by poisoning the atmosphere for the West Brom game and also potentially unsettled the coaching and playing staff.

Why would Cain Hoy need publicity? They're not a brand.

Poisoned atmosphere my ****.

You don't actually believe this ****?

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Cain Hoy announced it was commencing operations on 11th September. On 12th September it leaked or rather announced its "interest" in a takeover of the club. At that time very few in this country had ever heard of Cain Hoy in any of its guises. Tottenham immediately denied any sale discussions and stated the only discussions they had had, with among others Cain Hoy, was on funding the NPD. Immediately also, the media and other interested parties investigated who Cain Hoy were, what the background of its officers was, and what funds it might be able to generate, and broadcast it. On 15th September Cain Hoy announced it was backing a new development in Islington Square, which in reality had been under development for some months. A couple of weeks later on 25th September, they announced they had ceased their interest in Tottenham Hotspur. The result is that the media and the world and his wife have been discussing this new kid on the block for the last few weeks, while Cain Hoy have effectively done nothing. Now does anyone apart from me think this series of events was designed by Cain Hoy for the free publicity?
In my view the club may be sold; it may even be sold soon if an interested party is willing to pay well over the odds, but it is no more up for sale than it has been since 2001.
But as I said previously: time will tell.

Once again, Cain Hoy have no need for publicity. They are not that type of company.

How many other investment company launches did you ever hear about? How many hedge funds?

Almost nil, I bet, unless you work in the City or pore over the inside pages of the FT.

There's a good reason for it. These companies don't court the general public. They specifically target very wealthy individuals and institutions. There are established channels for making those connections. They're based on word of mouth within the financial sector and personal contacts. Because of the names involved with Cain Hoy (not to mention the Guggenheim connection), they will have had little trouble attracting interest from all the right quarters. No need whatsoever to go to the media. Even less need to concoct a fake takeover bid for a football club. There would be zero benefit in it for them.

 

[LesMedley]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Once again, Cain Hoy have no need for publicity. They are not that type of company.

How many other investment company launches did you ever hear about? How many hedge funds?

Almost nil, I bet, unless you work in the City or pore over the inside pages of the FT.

There's a good reason for it. These companies don't court the general public. They specifically target very wealthy individuals and institutions. There are established channels for making those connections. They're based on word of mouth within the financial sector and personal contacts. Because of the names involved with Cain Hoy (not to mention the Guggenheim connection), they will have had little trouble attracting interest from all the right quarters. No need whatsoever to go to the media. Even less need to concoct a fake takeover bid for a football club. There would be zero benefit in it for them.

In my view, Cain Hoy's actions outweigh your words.

 

[jimmyb]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

In my view, Cain Hoy's actions outweigh your words.

What actions?

Couldn't the fact that they declared an interest in making a bid for Spurs be simply because.....you, know......they were actually interested in making a bid for Spurs?

 

[jts1882]

Re: Cain Hoy takeover

Rather a circular argument. They did it for they publicity, so they must have leaked it. They leaked it so their actions prove it is them.

I could understand the PR advantages for a different type of firm. A company interested in the naming rights, for instance. A leak doesn't seem very Levy/Lewis, either, as they rarely say anything, much to our frustration on the stadium front. However, if they don't want to sell, requiring Cain Hoy to make bid or go away is to their advantage as it got rid of a distraction. I see no obvious advantage for Cain Hoy. They don't need or even want publicity of that nature and a leak doesn't favour a takeover strategy and could have scuppered/delayed it.