• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

AVB - I want him out now!

I aluded to this in another thread and another post. It is blatantly obvious by watching those players that they seem shackled into moving in certain directions and doing certain things. Its like they are told a criteria and they have to run through it in their minds if the situation arises eg if the opposition moves his little toe, Walker runs past him or something like that.

Players to play well need to enjoy their football and I dont think they are. They are being micro managed as it were and as we all know - Micro management is just ****. Its a control freaks way of saying, I dont trust you so do it my way and my way is the only way I can adopt to counter against the fact I cant do it on the pitch myself.

If AVB just told those players to go out and play and not worry too much about the opposition etc - I think we would see some of the players realise their potential

ps - I actually dont want AVB out and dont think anyone should suggest that but I do think he needs to change the way the team plays and even his management style on enforcing players to be so regimented.

Which IMO is why Lamela isn't getting a game. Watching him in the Europa games he's always knocking it into the tight forward areas and going instantly for the return, he's always drifting into different positions, he takes his man on and takes risks. He loses the ball sometimes.

I think AVB wants all that coached out of him before he can play in the Premiership which is a real shame as, as I said before we haven't had a player that unpredictable and exciting to watch since Robbie Keane. VDV was another 'off the cuff' player but without the ability in terms of pace and trickery to run past players.

But AVB binned him off IMO.

Bale was changed from a bit of a free spirit who ran at players all the time, took risks and was exciting to watch into a robot who sat in the centre of the pitch waiting for a yard of space to get one of his rockets away. He stopped making those fearsome runs that made the fans get up out their seats and started just banging in goals

I think AVB wants a solid functioning unit that plays the percentages and it's soulless and boring
 
Because he does it the most and rarely to much effect. The stats says he has 93 accurate long balls from 141 attempts, but that's just all passes over a certain length. Phil Jagielka is the only player in the Premier League to have played more long balls. Vlad has a higher number of long balls per game, but he is far more accurate, 36 of 41. It's the ones where he boots it long to the winger on opposite side that has to go. He may not have been instructed NOT to do it, but it doesn't mean he should be doing it. Pass and move along the ground is IMO more effective in order to unsettle opposition defences, creating those gaps, than simply hoofing it. Accurate long ball is also a very poor stat. It only tells you whose head it landed on, not where it ended up. Most of them will end up being cleared by a defender.

do you think he does this against coaches advise? or that coaches have NOT told him to do it?

he does it enough that you would assume someone is telling him to do it
 
do you think he does this against coaches advise? or that coaches have NOT told him to do it?

he does it enough that you would assume someone is telling him to do it

I don't think it's something AVB wants the players to actively seek out to do. It can be useful sometimes if there's a player in acres of space, but Dawson isn't accurate enough. Whether he's been told to cut it out I don't know. It will be interesting to see what happens with Kaboul back and hopefully Rose as well soon.
 
:(

When will it not be horrible to be a Spurs fan?

When we hire a coach that is not only talented but believes and respects the traditions of the club and the fans.

We've had Harry who was a good coach, someone who had us playing in the club's traditions but he didn't respect the fans or the club he was in it for himself and when he thought the Englsnd job was his he stopped doing his job and threw 3rd place away.

His retort was our fans were stupid and this is as good as it gets. You could tell he had contempt for us.

Now we have AVB, a man who openly admits he doesn't want to be a manager for long, he wants to get to the top quickly then go off and race cars.

We're a stepping stone to rebuild his reputation and he's playing it safe. It's about him again. Another 'safe' season from him and the PSG or Barca job will be his.

He has criticised the fans openly again. You can tell he feels he knows best and is cleverer than us all.
 
Which IMO is why Lamela isn't getting a game. Watching him in the Europa games he's always knocking it into the tight forward areas and going instantly for the return, he's always drifting into different positions, he takes his man on and takes risks. He loses the ball sometimes.

I think AVB wants all that coached out of him before he can play in the Premiership which is a real shame as, as I said before we haven't had a player that unpredictable and exciting to watch since Robbie Keane. VDV was another 'off the cuff' player but without the ability in terms of pace and trickery to run past players.

But AVB binned him off IMO.

Bale was changed from a bit of a free spirit who ran at players all the time, took risks and was exciting to watch into a robot who sat in the centre of the pitch waiting for a yard of space to get one of his rockets away. He stopped making those fearsome runs that made the fans get up out their seats and started just banging in goals

I think AVB wants a solid functioning unit that plays the percentages and it's soulless and boring

Why is AVB playing Townsend then and allowing him to take on players constantly? Why hasn't this been "coached out of him" before he's given time on the pitch? Where are the safe passes?

You're really having a go at AVB for the development he oversaw with Bale? Is there anything AVB has done that you will give him credit for at this point if not this? The development where we could all see Bale go from a super talented and very good young player into a real life superstar signed for a world record transfer fee by Real Madrid? Not even this development is beyond complaint? Seems unreasonable to me.
 
When we hire a coach that is not only talented but believes and respects the traditions of the club and the fans.

We've had Harry who was a good coach, someone who had us playing in the club's traditions but he didn't respect the fans or the club he was in it for himself and when he thought the Englsnd job was his he stopped doing his job and threw 3rd place away.

His retort was our fans were stupid and this is as good as it gets. You could tell he had contempt for us.

Now we have AVB, a man who openly admits he doesn't want to be a manager for long, he wants to get to the top quickly then go off and race cars.

We're a stepping stone to rebuild his reputation and he's playing it safe. It's about him again. Another 'safe' season from him and the PSG or Barca job will be his.

He has criticised the fans openly again. You can tell he feels he knows best and is cleverer than us all.


I hear people saying this kind of thing a lot and it always baffles me. There seems to be this assumption that AVB is wanted by every top club in Europe. Where on earth does that idea come from? One great season at Porto, then failure at Chelsea (having been appointed by well-know football genius Roman Abramovich) followed by "safe" mediocrity at Spurs...and Barca will offer him their job? Huh? No, for me AVB is fighting to save his reputation and the idea "safe" will do it at Spurs - 5th for 3 seasons with a well drilled defence and loads of 1-0's - before he swans off to a Galactico club seems pretty absurd to me.

When Harry left I wanted the new manager to be young, with fresh ideas and a modern approach. Both Martinez and AVB ticked those boxes, and while I'd have picked the former, the latter was a perfectly, perfectly reasonable choice by Levy. EVEN IF IT WAS A RISK AND EVEN IF IT TURNS OUT TO BE THE WRONG DECISION, it was still right to punt on a young coach. I back Levy's decision 100%.

Age has always been my #1 issue with AVB. I think 34 is simply too young for a top EPL team. Even the modest 4 or 5 years Rodgers and Martinez have on him count for that extra bit of self-awareness and maturity. That still worries me.

That said, if pushed about my core feeling on our current situation, it's this: Building from back to front is a good idea and our defence is pretty good. It is FREAKISH how little we are creating and I say it is IMPOSSIBLE that many talented players can't make more chances than Stoke or West Ham - bullsh1t they can't, irrespective of formation. So I honestly believe it's one of those weird, horrible patches where it just goes wrong all the time. A good defence/DM set-up quickly followed by our front 5 clicking around Xmas could still see us with a pop at 4th.

As for Spurs traditions, Norwich at home wasn't exactly 1960's style Spurs, but it still had an awesome, flowing power to it that I found pretty damn exciting. If AVB served that up every week and we added some goals I would not be unhappy.

Just IMO.
 
When we hire a coach that is not only talented but believes and respects the traditions of the club and the fans.

We've had Harry who was a good coach, someone who had us playing in the club's traditions but he didn't respect the fans or the club he was in it for himself and when he thought the Englsnd job was his he stopped doing his job and threw 3rd place away.

His retort was our fans were stupid and this is as good as it gets. You could tell he had contempt for us.

Now we have AVB, a man who openly admits he doesn't want to be a manager for long, he wants to get to the top quickly then go off and race cars.

We're a stepping stone to rebuild his reputation and he's playing it safe. It's about him again. Another 'safe' season from him and the PSG or Barca job will be his.

He has criticised the fans openly again. You can tell he feels he knows best and is cleverer than us all.

I know you've said it's not your job to point to who the replacement manager should be and I agree with you to a large extent.

However, you're cutting the pool of potential replacements by a ton if you're saying that we have to find a manager that will not see Spurs as a potential stepping stone. You'll cut it even further if you want a manager that doesn't feel that he "knows better than the fans" if you were seriously criticizing AVB for being confident about his own knowledge and ability.

By the way, I think there would have been much safer jobs available for AVB if he was primarily looking to rebuild his reputation. There are much easier jobs in the world of football than taking over the team with the 6th biggest budget in the Premier League, a fanbase demanding attacking entertaining football and clear cut top 4 ambitions.
 
Which IMO is why Lamela isn't getting a game. Watching him in the Europa games he's always knocking it into the tight forward areas and going instantly for the return, he's always drifting into different positions, he takes his man on and takes risks. He loses the ball sometimes.

I think AVB wants all that coached out of him before he can play in the Premiership which is a real shame as, as I said before we haven't had a player that unpredictable and exciting to watch since Robbie Keane. VDV was another 'off the cuff' player but without the ability in terms of pace and trickery to run past players.

But AVB binned him off IMO.

Bale was changed from a bit of a free spirit who ran at players all the time, took risks and was exciting to watch into a robot who sat in the centre of the pitch waiting for a yard of space to get one of his rockets away. He stopped making those fearsome runs that made the fans get up out their seats and started just banging in goals

I think AVB wants a solid functioning unit that plays the percentages and it's soulless and boring

agree with your views on AVB. perhaps its the early phases of the team building that he requires strict possession discipline. Not only lamela, but also eriksen .. they seem mentally shackled when we know they can attempt much more (but risk losing possession). but to AVB's credit he has always given one player that role of unpredictably; last season it was bale, and this season its townsend. i think avb has the appetite for only ONE player in that role, hence i don't think he will play both lamela and townsend in a speculative role.

given that half the team are new, i'd suspect that avb would want the team to settle down quickly by playing a disciplined games against all the teams once; if i'm right we will see a more adventurous type of football after christmas. i also suspect that a proper LB is something he is pining for.
 
Why is AVB playing Townsend then and allowing him to take on players constantly? Why hasn't this been "coached out of him" before he's given time on the pitch? Where are the safe passes?

You're really having a go at AVB for the development he oversaw with Bale? Is there anything AVB has done that you will give him credit for at this point if not this? The development where we could all see Bale go from a super talented and very good young player into a real life superstar signed for a world record transfer fee by Real Madrid? Not even this development is beyond complaint? Seems unreasonable to me.

AVB has made us difficult to score against. He deserves credit for that. However, has it been at the cost of our attacking fluidity and lack of goals? Probably. It has certainly made us significantly less entertaining to watch.

Is he in the middle of a grand, masterplan? Some seem to think so. Others see no evidence of this.

Regarding Townsend, I think AVB is endeavouring to restrict his natural attacking inclinations. Much like he has done with Lennon, who looks a shadow of himself under AVB IMO.

Regarding Bale, some think AVB deserves ALL the credit for his performances last season. Others point out that Harry was the first to play him through the middle and all over the front ( in spite of chants of " Bale, he plays on the left"). Personally, I think Bale himself turned himself into the superstar by his many hours practicing his free-kicks and shooting with both feet. No one deserves the credit for that but the man himself.
 
AVB has made us difficult to score against. He deserves credit for that. However, has it been at the cost of our attacking fluidity and lack of goals? Probably. It has certainly made us significantly less entertaining to watch.

Is he in the middle of a grand, masterplan? Some seem to think so. Others see no evidence of this.

Regarding Townsend, I think AVB is endeavouring to restrict his natural attacking inclinations. Much like he has done with Lennon, who looks a shadow of himself under AVB IMO.

Regarding Bale, some think AVB deserves ALL the credit for his performances last season. Others point out that Harry was the first to play him through the middle and all over the front ( in spite of chants of " Bale, he plays on the left"). Personally, I think Bale himself turned himself into the superstar by his many hours practicing his free-kicks and shooting with both feet. No one deserves the credit for that but the man himself.

You don't see us in the middle of a grand masterplan, but do you think he's in a gradual process of improvement that will take time or do you think we see more or less the finished product?

The Townsend comment doesn't answer my question to NWND, why is Townsend allowed to play before this is coached out of him if this is indeed what AVB is doing with Lamela?

I specifically said that AVB oversaw Bale's development to avoid this going off topic into another Bale development discussion. I thought this was a wording neutral enough that no on would feel inclined to kickstart that old discussion, seems I was wrong. Feel free to take this off topic arguing against what "some people" think in some other thread if that is what you want though...
 
I think we should ban all these "some people" they seem totally clueless judging by how i keep seeing them desribed. :D
 
If we won every game 4-0 and won the league there would still be people moaning about something, it's in our genes

why is it such a problem that some fans want us to score more and be more threatening in the attacking 3rd? 6 goals from open play in 11 PL games!! I think fans from any club with that kind of record would have a little moan even if their team was in 1st place and 10 pts clear.

i mean everyone is analysing our attacking play, other fans, journos, the media and wondering why with such talent and expenditure we dont score more or even look like scoring. Why cant we as fans of our own club do it. I just dont get it
 
because it's still a work in progress, it's like the bride storming into the bakery whilst the cake is still in the oven and wanting the chef sacked because the icing isn't finished
 
because it's still a work in progress, it's like the bride storming into the bakery whilst the cake is still in the oven and wanting the chef sacked because the icing isn't finished

More like she wants him sacked because she thinks he will get the icing wrong.
 
I think it is hard to pinpoint what AVB is doing right this season. Obviously I want him to do well because I'm a Spurs fan, not a manager fan, and if he does badly then that means we do badly but if he persists with a number of things then it will be difficult to maintain my support for him.

Firstly I think it's very silly of him not to have had Sandro start more games. I understand he had a long-term injury but if he's fit enough for 45 minutes then the chances are he's fit enough for 90. I believe the reason AVB hasn't started him in the league more is because he genuinely thinks Paulinho-Dembele will work, but how often does a fairly attack-minded duo like that really work without someone protecting the midfield? Not much. We get too exposed and having this pairing has cost us in home games against West Ham and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Hopefully AVB has learnt his lesson in this aspect.

Another issue is obviously the Soldado conundrum. I've never been a huge fan of his, his allround game isn't great at all, but La Liga is a weaker league and at Valencia he had several very creative players around him so scored a fair few goals. AVB's tactic however is seemingly to play with inverted wingers, none of whom are creative players, meaning Soldado becomes totally ineffective for us. It's a shame he fell out with Adebayor, because although Ade is a bit of a *** and inconsistent he at least fits in to this system better than Soldado and Defoe.

AVB's tactics are obviously another cause for concern. He has always relied heavily on long range shots in his time at the club. Thankfully Bale is a master of them and so was able to score plenty last season. It's a bit worrying that AVB's main attacking 'tactic' is to just instruct his attacking midfielders to shoot on sight, however. Townsend does it too much, Sigurdsson does it too much, Paulinho does it too much... you get the point. Eriksen has invention in his locker but is extremely hit and miss so we can't expect him to create hatfuls of chances every game. Holtby is fairly creative but more of a workhorse. Lamela I watched many times at Roma - he is very good at scoring goals, be that through a dribble or accurate curler etc. but he isn't exactly what I'd describe as creative. Lennon and Chadli, can run with the ball but won't set many chances up via a through ball. So what teams do is sit narrow and demand us to find a way through - unfortunately we rarely have an answer. Yes, the odd long range strike will go in but more often than not it is extremely frustrating for both the players and the fans.

I'm not entirely sure what we can do with the players we have to suit us best. We have a strong squad but I'm not entirely sure how to get the best out of it. Rose and Walker are automatic picks at full-back when fit, then AVB has an array of options in the centre of defence. But from there upwards he has to play Sandro every league game and decide on Paulinho (who has failed to deliver so far - seems technically below par for a Brazilian, but I'm willing to give him time) or an underperforming Dembele. Eventually Lamela has to come in for the one-trick pony Townsend on the right, because at least Lamela is more of a goal threat. Put Townsend on the left where is at least forced to go on the outside sometimes and cross the ball. Eriksen/Holtby/Sigurdsson is much of a muchness for the 'hole' position, personally I'd opt for the most in form which right now is perhaps Holtby. Then I would have Adebayor up front but that seems unrealistic, so maybe stick with Soldado because he'd be slightly more likely to be serviced by that trio IMO.

I dunno, I just feel we had a very poor summer on the transfer front. Not too sure what the plan was. Chiriches coming in to replace Caulker was weird but the former looks good so I can just about see the reasoning for it. Capoue adds depth but how much of an upgrade he is on Huddlestone I am unsure. Paulinho is a good player but Dembele was last season and instead of having them challenge each other for that box to box role it appears as if both are first-choice, which as I've said above just doesn't work. Lamela I can understand signing because he has the potential to be a top player. Eriksen, well I've never been convinced and it was an even more pointless signing with Holtby and Sigurdsson already here - should have either sold Sig and bought someone better for the position or just not signed Eriksen and let Sig/Holtby fight it out. Chadli is okay, but again slightly pointless due to our having three other wingers more in favour (as well as Sigurdsson playing on the left). Soldado, see above for my thoughts.

If the plan was to just buy all of the above players, throw them in together and hope for the best then that is pure idiocy. Unfortunately that seems to be the case. How many of our players get in to the other top six teams despite our spending £100m? Very few, worryingly:

Arsenal - Lloris, Vertonghen, possibly Sandro (all of whom were here already).
Chelsea - Lloris debateably, Vertonghen, Sandro. Arguably Paulinho/Dembele ahead of Ramires, but that depends what you want.
Liverpool - Lloris, maybe Vertonghen? Sandro and Lucas have little between them, but you could do a swap there if you fancied it.
Emirates Marketing Project - Lloris, Vertonghen.
Man Utd - Lloris, maybe Vertonghen again, probably a midfielder of ours, potentially Lamela.

In other words, the only players of ours that the majority of top teams would be looking at using in their first elevens are Lloris, Vertonghen and Sandro. To spend as much money as we did and still say that is very worrying. It's partly why I'm concerned we may be in a scrap for 6th with Everton and Southampton as opposed to fight for 4th with the above five sides. We have a much stronger squad than Everton and Southampton but if they keep themselves fit it won't be easy.

I hope that post isn't too long-winded or dull. That's just how I feel at the moment, very down on Spurs after four years of genuine belief (not hope, belief) that we were going in the right direction. AVB has done some good things here but he needs to quickly press the stop button because he's fast turning in to the AVB of Chelsea. If that were to happen, there's no coming back for him at the Lane.
 
Back