Are we now permanently locked out of the CL?

[Spur of the moment]

An excellent question. I'd say it's possible but there will always be anomalies...generally speaking, however, money will talk louder than anything.

Of course, I'd abstract it further and say do we actually give a crud if all that is going to be about is money and buying your way in time and time again with a slew of mercenaries who kiss the cheque, sorry, badge with the empty, hollow sound of a pound coin dropping in an echo chamber.

Personally, and I've said this before, if we sell and 'oligarch/shiekh' it, a part of my love will die. One of the things which has made us so special is HOW we've done it. With flair, surprises and moments of soaring glory. Our current set-up, the way Poch is going, the way the club is going, the players we are fielding, are ALL making me happier than I have felt in years because there is real PRIDE in the shirt with many of those young men. I BELIEVE it. I FEEL it. To replace them with big money just to get in the CL? No thanks. fudge THAT! I'd rather get there once every decade and make at least the last 8 than 15 years in a row and nearly always bomb out before the quarters! Yup. Quote me ;-)

Cracking reply. I'm right with you.

 

[milo]

There are three teams with bigger budgets than Arsenal, significantly so in previous seasons, and they normally out perform at least one of them.

Budgets will rule us out of the title race but there will always be the opportunity to get into that top four I really do think that.

Absolutely, as have we in previous years. Considering the age of our team and the amount of rebuilding that has been done this year, I think that we have had a really successful season. Hopefully, we can build on this and over perform next year.

 

[indianspur]

I think Arsenal and United are on downward curves (Wenger era coming to an end/United's poor squad), whilst us and Liverpool are on upward ones, so that gap will keep shrinking IMO. The 2 doped teams are out of touch till something happens with their ownership.

CL qualification from the EL is a curveball that could help us. I do think we could win the EL in the next few seasons

nah, we will never take the competition seriously.....its seems to be a burden rather than an opportunity

 

[indianspur]

I think with some clever buys and with Pochs work on the players we have a chance of a top 4 finish in the next 2 or 3 years. A lot of things have to fall in place for it to happen but no way would i say its out of the question

 

[NWND]

Nobody is permanently locked out of the CL. I'd particularly point out that up until, I'd say, the Everton home game, our form was pretty terrible. It took Poch a while to get his philosophy across and for the likes of Ade, Kaboul and Capoue to be removed from the team.

A whole season of Kane, a whole season of our recent form (IF both Kane and us maintain the form), a strengthened defence in the summer, why couldn't we give it a shot?

I see similarities between Liverpool under Rodgers and us under Poch. Kane is our Bale/Suarez character and if we buy sensibly, we can mount a challenge.

 

[NWND]

Our form pre Everton home:

WWLDLDWLLWLW - only 5 wins in the opening 12 games.

Our form from Everton home:

WLDWWWDWLWWWLDWWLW - only 4 defeats in 18 games and 3 of those defeats were: Chelsea away, Liverpool away, Man Utd away.

The above form is with the consistent team featuring the likes of Mason, Bentaleb, Kane. If we had a full season of that kind of form, we'd be challenging for the title.

 

[paxtonwolf]

For me it isnt just yet. Quite often you can get one of the 'bigger' teams underachieving so there is always an outside chance of gratecrashing. I know we are talking ifs and buts, It is not over yet this season. A win today and loss for City tomorrow and the gap is 6 to United 5 to City who play each other next week. A win v Villa and one, or both of them are within sniffing distance.
Bear in mind some of the points dropped at home (I know all teams can say that), but the gap is not that substantial

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Take out Felaini and UTD are directionless, but he is a means to an end until they spend mega big in the summer.

They have to buy a lot of players this summer and still ship out a lot

They need a whirl defence and a new pair of strikers
Plus arguably another creative player to replace di Maria

 

[BucurestiSpur]

IF Lamela had had a season this season as "good" as Eriksens, and Eriksen had had a season as good as he could/should have and add that to Kanes current season where would we be?

Now discount the above but add in a reliable center half partnership only as good as would be reasonable for a club of Tottenhams size to expect (ie 25% better than now/25% less goals conceded?) where would be now?

Again discount both of the above but give Bentaleb and Mason* another season together and assume they are able to "win" midfield in 4/5ths of the games, where would we be now? (*or reasonably possible improvement signing)

Give Poch a couple of achievable signings and a summer of hard work.

Roll all of the above things into next season, again not unreasonable to hope for or even expect and there is reason for confidence and thats still with gaps here and there, brainfarts from Rose and Walker, Row Z's from Townsend, EL distractions, no new stadium and us still unable to compete financially.

One or two of the top 4-5 teams seem to have a problem every season since we first got 4th place.

Its doable, and exciting and probably heartbreaking, but its Tottenham lads.

 

[chicken_badge]

I am sorry but I am going to be negative, we wasted the Bale money massively, if you look at the teams above us would Mason, Townsend, Bentaleb and Chadli have got so much game time ? no chance, we have bought so poorly, somebody mentioned earlier that stadium revenue will make the difference, I hope so.

Interesting you miss Kane out of that little selection...

 

[Jimmy-g]

Interesting you miss Kane out of that little selection...

I think Kane and in a lesser extent Rose are my plus points this season, I like Dier too, I don't rate Bentaleb, Mason has promise, all of our big buys have been massive let downs, imo if we finish 6/7 its where we deserve to be.

 

[Pirate55]

I am rather afraid that the OMP is right in the question he asks.I still feel we missed our opportunity the season we were riding high in third under Harry and needed one decent signing then to consolidate our CL place. Then we could have locked in a possible permanence to CL places ourselves, retained our best players and go on to be one of the best teams in Europe. For me, that was the pivotal moment. We have been on a downward spiral ever since.

Can this be reversed? I hope so but am not too confident. Our young team gives some optimism for hope. However, our recent track record of buying players is simply woeful and until those responsible are replaced and some genuine class players are identified and purchased, we will continue to struggle to get above any one of those teams ahead of us at present. We must buy three quality players as an absolute minimum this summer. Centre half, centre midfield and centre forward , (who can both complement Kane and, when needed, replace him). A massive clearout is absolutely essential to finance these three key purchases.

 

[chicken_badge]

I agree with much of what Pirate says. One difference though is about is locking onto that top four. We do not have the resources for that, not in the same way City Chelsea United can.

 

[SpurMeUp]

You can't rewrite history. But do you think we'd be closer to the CL places, or in them, if we'd had no cup games?

 

[King of Norway]

You are never permanently locked out of the CL. Things can happen. A couple of the other contenders might underachieve, and we might overachieve, but realistically the gap between us and the teams that are above us in the table at the moment will widen.

We don't have the same resources as the clubs we aim to challenge. I looked at a table over net spend in transfers over the last five years recently, and we were together with Burnley the only PL club that had made a profit. We built an expensive training center, now we are building a very expensive stadium. Any money we spend on new players we need to gain from sales. That's the way it has been for several years now, and that is the way it will stay until we start making a greater profit in a new stadium and probably pay off some debts or whatever.

We had our chance a few years ago to get a foothold in the top 4. Arsenal were in the situation we are in now, in terms of having spent their money on a new stadium and couldn't spend money on players. Liverpool were struggling for a few years. Emirates Marketing Project were not yet an established top 4 side, and Chelsea had a poor season under AVB. I feel that if we had shown a little more ambition in that period for a couple of years, things might have been different, but the other projects perhaps made it difficult. We were very close, but we tended to fall short on the finishing stretch, in addition to being plain unlucky one year when we actually qualified and missed out on a technicality. There was that one season under Redknapp where we were actually close to challenging for the title at one point. In the January window, I felt that if we had strengthened the team with a couple of quality players, we might have given City and United a run for their money, and certainly consolidated our place in the top 3 and avoided that farce with losing out due to Chelsea winning the CL, but instead we actually weakened our squad and our season petered out.

With the way things are now, we need do something spectacular, probably in combination with other teams underachieving, to finish in the top 4. We also need to be shrewd in the transfer market, something we haven't exactly been in recent years. The squad we have now is far from good enough, and Pochettino would have to work wonders to finish top 4 with our current group. This season the results have been okay, under the circumstances, but the results have been better than the performances. We have put in few impressive performances.

 

[shaney]

The Europa League is designed to keep clubs like us out of the Champions League. And it works. We would have much more chance of top 4 next season without it. I cant see us ever winning the Europa League considering we didnt get anywhere near winning it even when no one gave a crud about it. Now with a champions league spot up for grabs there is even less chance.

The only way we will ever get back in the champions league is if we finish top 4. Can we ever do it ? Of course we can. With the right manager.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The Europa League is designed to keep clubs like us out of the Champions League. And it works. We would have much more chance of top 4 next season without it. I cant see us ever winning the Europa League considering we didnt get anywhere near winning it even when no one gave a crud about it. Now with a champions league spot up for grabs there is even less chance.

The only way we will ever get back in the champions league is if we finish top 4. Can we ever do it ? Of course we can. With the right manager.

You think that if we took away the EL games this season, Poch would have had the same league points? But then would Kane have emerged? If we get EL next season we need to play lots of youth and fringe players.

It's not just players fatigue from the amount of games. There is something else. I think it is that the coaching staff and team do not get sufficient time to focus on each game. So even if we play a rotated team in the EL, we need to be planning better with an extended coaching team. Almost have a second manager who can run the EL team.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

You think that if we took away the EL games this season, Poch would have had the same league points? But then would Kane have emerged? If we get EL next season we need to play lots of youth and fringe players.

It's not just players fatigue from the amount of games. There is something else. I think it is that the coaching staff and team do not get sufficient time to focus on each game. So even if we play a rotated team in the EL, we need to be planning better with an extended coaching team. Almost have a second manager who can run the EL team.

If we cannot cope with EL games against mediocre opposition, why are we craving CL games which are infinitely more demanding and would impact much more on our league campaign???

 

[shaney]

You think that if we took away the EL games this season, Poch would have had the same league points? But then would Kane have emerged? If we get EL next season we need to play lots of youth and fringe players.

It's not just players fatigue from the amount of games. There is something else. I think it is that the coaching staff and team do not get sufficient time to focus on each game. So even if we play a rotated team in the EL, we need to be planning better with an extended coaching team. Almost have a second manager who can run the EL team.

Good in principle but it doesnt, and never will happen. We will never play a team completely full of kids and second string and once we get past the group stages (which a pub team could) then we will yet again play most of the first team in the silly belief we will win it. And so the cycle continues.

 

[3DSpur]

The Europa League is designed to keep clubs like us out of the Champions League. And it works. We would have much more chance of top 4 next season without it. I cant see us ever winning the Europa League considering we didnt get anywhere near winning it even when no one gave a crud about it. Now with a champions league spot up for grabs there is even less chance.

The only way we will ever get back in the champions league is if we finish top 4. Can we ever do it ? Of course we can. With the right manager.

...Before the likes of Chelsea winning the fudging thing again, and we still ending up in Europa League. 11'-12' still stings like a bitch!