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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

Raziel said:
I think his hand was forced (wouldn't be the first time Conte has stumbled into a solution)

I'm not entirely convinced Conte didn't play Gil & Sarr against Villa to send a message to the club (oh, look what brick I have to rely on, young, unproven players) and then realized they actually could do a job.

We need high energy players in the system, otherwise we become too passive and easy to play against. It's why Deki, Bentancur, Richarlison, Gil, Sarr make an impact to how we play, I suspect Spence would be similar.
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Not going to knock Conte too much because I believe in balance but there was a great article today about how harping on about squad depth over looks the fact he still has Kane and Son at his disposal and that it's ultimately his job to get both firing which has an element of truth.

I really hope the penny has dropped with the youth situation and I will give him the benefit of the doubt about sending messages until a time it's clearer, but last night showed that we do have good young players at the club and for whatever Conte wants Spurs ethos will always be to bring them on like it or not so he might as well embrace it
 
Grays_1890 said:
Not going to knock Conte too much because I believe in balance but there was a great article today about how harping on about squad depth over looks the fact he still has Kane and Son at his disposal and that it's ultimately his job to get both firing which has an element of truth.

I really hope the penny has dropped with the youth situation and I will give him the benefit of the doubt about sending messages until a time it's clearer, but last night showed that we do have good young players at the club and for whatever Conte wants Spurs ethos will always be to bring them on like it or not so he might as well embrace it
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Yep, agree and if I was to take the positive spin, while Spurs and Conte seem a bad match at times, the opposite could be true, they could bring out the best in each other

- Conte keeps pressuring the club to improve the first 11 every window, something that matters
- Conte brings a fitness level and never die attitude
- The club forces Conte to tone back his media bitching (I can recall at least 1 or 2 incidents where I feel it's obvious someone in the club spoke to him post an interview)
- The club forces Conte to incorporate youth and use his coaching ability on said youth.

Conte and Levy are stubborn not stupid, they both know each other, it's up to them to find a model that works and it's never going to be 100% what the other wants.
 
Raziel said:
I think his hand was forced (wouldn't be the first time Conte has stumbled into a solution)

I'm not entirely convinced Conte didn't play Gil & Sarr against Villa to send a message to the club (oh, look what brick I have to rely on, young, unproven players) and then realized they actually could do a job.

We need high energy players in the system, otherwise we become too passive and easy to play against. It's why Deki, Bentancur, Richarlison, Gil, Sarr make an impact to how we play, I suspect Spence would be similar.
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There have been a lot of potential solutions offered up on here on how to play without Gil with our current injuries. He chose to play Gil. He chose to keep Gil on the pitch.

Skipp was booked and had a fairly average game. But Conte could easily have kept him on the pitch. Conte chose to put Sarr on.

If him playing and trusting younger players is interpreted as him sending a message to the club then fair enough. Difficult to argue against assumptions about his intentions. I think his main focus is trying to win whatever game is the next game.

Reports from Ali Gold that Conte trusted Sarr more after the break. Gave him minutes against Villa when he didn't need to. Put him on again against Palace, now earlier.

To me that's by far the most likely interpretation. He thought Sarr offered the best chance to victory. He thought Gil offered the best chance of victory. If he just wanted to make a point he could have subbed Gil at half time.

We need energy, but we also need players that fit the system. That will work to fit the system. I think Gil and Sarr have shown good steps in that direction in training.
 
braineclipse said:
What worked in the second half yesterday was one of his main winning formulas. Rather similar to the formula he used with success for us last season. The formula many in here have asked for him to abandon.

He does have a fairly high threshold for trusting some players, particularly younger players, but also perhaps more creative players like Eriksen.

Then again. He trusted Gil again. He stuck with Gil after a first half where I think many on here were unhappy with Gil. He stuck Sarr on at 2-0 (we all know very well that games aren't over at 2-0), having given him time on the pitch against Villa too. Both doing well.

Perhaps to some extent at least, in some situations at the very least, Conte knows what he's doing with these younger players too. He has shown a willingness to trust Skipp, Sessegnon, others in previous jobs too.

I have no issues with these players having to be "Conte ready" as long as he's showing an ability to get them there.

But yes, he does have a history of wanting ready made solutions, being reluctant to find other solutions, yet can be successful when doing so. Partly I would like to see him more proactive on solutions like Gil, Sarr and Spence.
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I think the problem Conte has is he implies he's not really interested in these players. Whether that's intentional or miscommunication is hard to tell. Yes, he sets a high bar and perhaps he feels he needs too, to give himself guarantees that his very specific system/tactics get carried out to the letter.

But now they are 'trusted' but has this moment come along just because of circumstances (ie injuries/susp)? Theres now also no chance of any of this lot going on loan according to AC.

I don't know if this helps Spence, I'd like to think it might flex ACs thinking around him.

The other point you'd think Conte would like.. is young players take instruction better (ie they don't think they know best) and when you're asking for insane training regimes, a youngster will suck it up easier.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think the problem Conte has is he implies he's not really interested in these players. Whether that's intentional or miscommunication is hard to tell. Yes, he sets a high bar and perhaps he feels he needs too, to give himself guarantees that his very specific system/tactics get carried out to the letter.

But now they are 'trusted' but has this moment come along just because of circumstances (ie injuries/susp)? Theres now also no chance of any of this lot going on loan according to AC.

I don't know if this helps Spence, I'd like to think it might flex ACs thinking around him.

The other point you'd think Conte would like.. is young players take instruction better (ie they don't think they know best) and when you're asking for insane training regimes, a youngster will suck it up easier.
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Gil is easily one of our fittest players, not sure Sarr is too far behind
 
braineclipse said:
There have been a lot of potential solutions offered up on here on how to play without Gil with our current injuries. He chose to play Gil. He chose to keep Gil on the pitch.

Skipp was booked and had a fairly average game. But Conte could easily have kept him on the pitch. Conte chose to put Sarr on.

If him playing and trusting younger players is interpreted as him sending a message to the club then fair enough. Difficult to argue against assumptions about his intentions. I think his main focus is trying to win whatever game is the next game.

Reports from Ali Gold that Conte trusted Sarr more after the break. Gave him minutes against Villa when he didn't need to. Put him on again against Palace, now earlier.

To me that's by far the most likely interpretation. He thought Sarr offered the best chance to victory. He thought Gil offered the best chance of victory. If he just wanted to make a point he could have subbed Gil at half time.

We need energy, but we also need players that fit the system. That will work to fit the system. I think Gil and Sarr have shown good steps in that direction in training.
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I/We don't know, and to be honest, if it has created a realization that Conte can and should use Gil & Sarr and makes him more likely to use Spence and Udogie in the future, I don't care if it was on purpose or an accident.
 
braineclipse said:
Very good to see Gil and Sarr taking steps towards being potential solutions for us.

Still leaves us either short or dependent on these young and inexperienced players going forward. The underlying issues are still more or less unchanged. I don't think we can rely on Gil and Sarr to consistently be the answer when we fall short. But gives us a bit more in terms of options and freedom.

Really hope some of those underlying issues with the squad get sorted out in January.
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He's saying that we could be back to full fitness for the NLD.

(Probably not Moura)
 
Grays_1890 said:
Not going to knock Conte too much because I believe in balance but there was a great article today about how harping on about squad depth over looks the fact he still has Kane and Son at his disposal and that it's ultimately his job to get both firing which has an element of truth.

I really hope the penny has dropped with the youth situation and I will give him the benefit of the doubt about sending messages until a time it's clearer, but last night showed that we do have good young players at the club and for whatever Conte wants Spurs ethos will always be to bring them on like it or not so he might as well embrace it
Click to expand...

Let's not kid ourselves, it not just conte bitching about our squad depth, this time yesterday most of us were bricking it if kulu wasn't available and with Bentancur and bissouma out we weren't happy or confident about skipp, gil or sarr coming in.
Our squad isn't as bad as was moaned about yesterday, but it's not as good as is being portrayed today.
I don't think we are good enough to put gil, sarr, skipp and spence out on Saturday as some are suggesting. Certainly not with others around them that are not in top form.
The same people suggesting that would be the ones moaning if went out of the cup.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think the problem Conte has is he implies he's not really interested in these players. Whether that's intentional or miscommunication is hard to tell. Yes, he sets a high bar and perhaps he feels he needs too, to give himself guarantees that his very specific system/tactics get carried out to the letter.

But now they are 'trusted' but has this moment come along just because of circumstances (ie injuries/susp)? Theres now also no chance of any of this lot going on loan according to AC.

I don't know if this helps Spence, I'd like to think it might flex ACs thinking around him.

The other point you'd think Conte would like.. is young players take instruction better (ie they don't think they know best) and when you're asking for insane training regimes, a youngster will suck it up easier.
Click to expand...

I don't know. Would we have seen the kind of performances we did yesterday from Gil and Sarr if Conte communicated to them that he's not really interested in them?

He sets a high bar. It's harsh, it's sink or swim, he's probably not the easiest manager for a young player to develop under.

I think Spence needs to show Conte that he can do it. I don't think Conte will start being more flexible.
 
Skriniar is în his last 6 months. Îs Levi even putting a bid în? Would be a crazy signing for us, not to mention a FREE one.
 
glasgowspur said:
Let's not kid ourselves, it not just conte bitching about our squad depth, this time yesterday most of us were bricking it if kulu wasn't available and with Bentancur and bissouma out we weren't happy or confident about skipp, gil or sarr coming in.
Our squad isn't as bad as was moaned about yesterday, but it's not as good as is being portrayed today.
I don't think we are good enough to put gil, sarr, skipp and spence out on Saturday as some are suggesting. Certainly not with others around them that are not in top form.
The same people suggesting that would be the ones moaning if went out of the cup.
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Exactly. Gil is hit and miss and that's been shown over the last 18 months. Sarr did really well last night but came on in a game we were coasting in. It was ideal for him. Skipp wasn't very good last night really. Not bad but not good.

I wouldn't want to be relying on them against Woolwich or City.
 
glasgowspur said:
Let's not kid ourselves, it not just conte bitching about our squad depth, this time yesterday most of us were bricking it if kulu wasn't available and with Bentancur and bissouma out we weren't happy or confident about skipp, gil or sarr coming in.
Our squad isn't as bad as was moaned about yesterday, but it's not as good as is being portrayed today.
I don't think we are good enough to put gil, sarr, skipp and spence out on Saturday as some are suggesting. Certainly not with others around them that are not in top form.
The same people suggesting that would be the ones moaning if went out of the cup.
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No I agree, I am not saying we should go all youth at Pompey, my complaints have been about slower integration when we had better strength around to be able to, I have been consistent on that view. The reason it seems all or nothing now is purely due to the fact we have to expose them not fan calls, but I will not say sorry for enjoying Sarr and Gil last night, its good to see regardless. My view on Spence and I maintain it, is that it would have been good to see him last night but thats been and gone.

Skipp was a first choice high performing player last year so he is not as risky TBH but I would expect maybe him and PEH against Pompey with Sarr coming in early if games done which would be great, same with Spence but I imagine thats wishful. GIl should start anyway, effectively same as last night TBH
 
Loved the effort put in yesterday. That (and the clean sheet) was almost more enjoyable than the result.
Almost.

Great to see Kane and Son back the in the goals. Great to see Lloris, Dier and co hold out long enough for Harry, Gill and Perisic to break through the Palace defensive ranks early in the second half - it's amazing what a goal can do to the dynamic of a game eh?

Gil was really disappointing and a big weak spot in the first half: any passes to him was basically where our passing moved went to die. He upped his game in the second half big time and was just about involved in all the goals IIRC. That pass for Kane's second goal was Kulu-like (or have we been so starved of slide-rule passes in the box that i'm getting giddy with that?). Definitely a player that benefits when we are on the front foot, though when HE keeps the ball and makes things happen (i.e. passing well to colleagues in space keeping hold of the ball before an easy pass to release it is available) he allows us to be on the front foot..

Was disappointed in Skipp i have to say, hopefully just rustiness but it was chalk and cheese when Sarr came on, though i guess it's easier to come on at 2-0 rather than other situations when we are in a tight spot or losing. But still, Sarr was very good.

Great to see Conte use more of the younger players but i hope he can similarly mix and match vs Portsmouth.
The effort out in shows that the players are certainly not downing tools etc.

Great win, great second half. Now hopefully it's onwards from here.
 
glasgowspur said:
Let's not kid ourselves, it not just conte bitching about our squad depth, this time yesterday most of us were bricking it if kulu wasn't available and with Bentancur and bissouma out we weren't happy or confident about skipp, gil or sarr coming in.
Our squad isn't as bad as was moaned about yesterday, but it's not as good as is being portrayed today.
I don't think we are good enough to put gil, sarr, skipp and spence out on Saturday as some are suggesting. Certainly not with others around them that are not in top form.
The same people suggesting that would be the ones moaning if went out of the cup.
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The reason the truth is somewhere in-between is because Conte has had no plan to integrate these guys, so they haven't had the game time to get to a point where we can rely on them. It's zero co-incidence that them having a few pre-season friendlies and a couple of games has equaled good performances.

Gil, Sarr & Skipp have been good enough to play our last two PL games, I'm really not sure why you think they would be out of their depth against Pompey?

Dier, Davies, Kane, Son, Bissouma are all likely to play (week off after), add in probably Sanchez, Sess, I really don't see how playing Skipp, Sarr, Gil and Spence is winging it.
 
Raziel said:
The reason the truth is somewhere in-between is because Conte has had no plan to integrate these guys, so they haven't had the game time to get to a point where we can rely on them. It's zero co-incidence that them having a few pre-season friendlies and a couple of games has equaled good performances.

Gil, Sarr & Skipp have been good enough to play our last two PL games, I'm really not sure why you think they would be out of their depth against Pompey?

Dier, Davies, Kane, Son, Bissouma are all likely to play (week off after), add in probably Sanchez, Sess, I really don't see how playing Skipp, Sarr, Gil and Spence is winging it.
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tenor.gif
 
Grays_1890 said:
No I agree, I am not saying we should go all youth at Pompey, my complaints have been about slower integration when we had better strength around to be able to, I have been consistent on that view. The reason it seems all or nothing now is purely due to the fact we have to expose them not fan calls, but I will not say sorry for enjoying Sarr and Gil last night, its good to see regardless. My view on Spence and I maintain it, is that it would have been good to see him last night but thats been and gone.

Skipp was a first choice high performing player last year so he is not as risky TBH but I would expect maybe him and PEH against Pompey with Sarr coming in early if games done which would be great, same with Spence but I imagine thats wishful. GIl should start anyway, effectively same as last night TBH
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we’re at home v Pompey right?
I’d start all of Skipp, Sarr, Gil and Spence but I’d want Romero, Peresic and Kane on from the start as well.
 
Mcfee said:
we’re at home v Pompey right?
I’d start all of Skipp, Sarr, Gil and Spence but I’d want Romero, Peresic and Kane on from the start as well.
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I'd be tempted to cotton wool Romero, Kulu (maybe give him 15 mins at end if he's recovered), and rest Perisic

Forster, Sess, Davies, Dier, Sanchez, Doherty/Spence, Bissouma, Skipp/Sarr, Gil, Kane, Son with Romero, Perisic, Kulu on the bench should be more than enough for Pompey at home.
 
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