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indianspur
Guest
this was weird, all the journos have picked up on it and think he is bonkers if he believes this.
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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach
- Thread starter Bale
- Start date
this was weird, all the journos have picked up on it and think he is bonkers if he believes this.
glorygloryeze
Ian Walker
Sadly, This. Only Ramos arrested this "we're down a man, so let's just fold" mentality a little
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indianspur
Guest
its not just about going down to 10 men, its the general mentality. Ramos may have arrested that aspect, but then he also delivered the 2pts from 8 games, plus the horrendous run till the end of the previous season after winning the carling cup.
Jol had his lasagnegate moment, Redknapp had the disastrous run last season when we comfortably had 3rd place. We have a history of folding when it matters
Doesn't really count as folding.
Leeds Spur
Banned
Pretty positive press coverage. Today
Ganter
Erik Edman
well, he is right, but I think he should have kept it to himself.
We were in control until Ade went off. We went into complete meltdown until halftime. 2nd half, we were in control man down, apart from 5 minutes when Arsenal were simply passing the ball inside their own half. 5-2 does not tell the story, but it is incredibly annoying how we lack talent in front of goal.
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
I have been one of AVB's biggest critics, but there were encouraging signs from him yesterday. Having said that, a few major blunders once again need to be talked about. Let's start with the positives. He took a gamble in setting up with a 4-4-2 away to Arsenal. It's the reason our season ended as badly as it did last year. We all knew they'd have an extra man on us in the centre and we could leave ourselves exposed. But AVB also realised that Arsenal's confidence was low at the moment and if we could pin them back they'd start to crumble. And it really worked. We took the initiative to them, got ourselves in front, and for the first 20 minutes we were comfortably the better side. We were playing effective attacking football, the type we have been desperate to see the team play all season. The other major positive was the tactical switch at half time. I knew we had to change something, my first thoughts were to take off Naughton, as he was getting raped by Walcott, and bring on Dempsey, moving Bale to left-back. That would leave us a bit less exposed and allow Dempsey to cut inside and Bale to overlap when we went forward. What I didn't think of was to take off both full-backs and pack out the midfield. It worked very well and I thought we played quite well in the second half with 10 men. If Bale had passed to Defoe to tap into an open goal and make it 4-3 instead of whipping it across the goal himself, who knows what we could have got from the game? I was pleased to finally see an intelligent use of substitutions and tactical switch, something I've been slagging him off for not being able to do on a weekly basis.
However...he must accept some of the blame for his tactical decisions too. For starters, playing Lloris in goal. It's something I've wanted to see for a while, and I thought Lloris was generally quite good yesterday, one outstanding save from a header in particular. But I thought the whole point of not playing him yet was to slowly integrate him into the side? If that's true, why throw him in at the deep end, in the derby? He must have been under huge amounts of pressure, not exactly a slow integration is it? It's a bizarre strategy and I really don't think the way AVB is handing this situation is good. I thought he should have saved Giroud's goal personally.
But my bigger gripe with AVB today was the slow response to the red card. As I mentioned earlier, he made a very intelligent tactical switch in the second half. But why the fudge did he wait until then? The reason why the 4-4-2 was going to work against Arsenal was because Adebayor drops deep and acts as an extra body in midfield when we need him there, and it also prevents them from pushing too far forward as we have two strikers they need to worry about if we counter. As soon as Ade goes off, those things aren't true any more, so we should have changed the formation. I have seen a 10 man 4-4-1 work well in the past, we all remember Berbatov's outstanding performances in the Emirates Marketing Project away cup win and the 4-1 win at home to Bolton, but the reason he could play that role is because his hold up play was truly world class. Defoe isn't that kind of player, and this was a recipe for disaster. It it had been Defoe that got sent off, I would have said keep the formation for a little longer and see how it goes, because at least Ade could hold the ball up a bit. But we kept it, for almost half an hour and 3 goals longer than we should have done. The Arsenal players and crowd were buoyed by the fact that one of our players, and not just any player, but Adebayor, had been sent off, and we knew an onslaught was coming. The thing to do there would have been to get physical, aggressive and in their faces, as we were still winning and if we could fight back with a great big fudge you until the crowd had started to get frustrated again, we'd have had a decent chance. Instead...we gifted them 3 goals. If AVB hadn't realised what was coming when the red card happened, the first 5 minutes of constant Arsenal pressure before the equaliser should have been enough to get the message to him. Then the first goal came, then the second, then the third. The whole way through I was screaming for a change, but by the time it came, the match was over. The best managers don't wait until half-time to change things around, they spot when something is wrong and change it straight away. AVB's indecisiveness has cost us for the second week in a row.
However...he must accept some of the blame for his tactical decisions too. For starters, playing Lloris in goal. It's something I've wanted to see for a while, and I thought Lloris was generally quite good yesterday, one outstanding save from a header in particular. But I thought the whole point of not playing him yet was to slowly integrate him into the side? If that's true, why throw him in at the deep end, in the derby? He must have been under huge amounts of pressure, not exactly a slow integration is it? It's a bizarre strategy and I really don't think the way AVB is handing this situation is good. I thought he should have saved Giroud's goal personally.
But my bigger gripe with AVB today was the slow response to the red card. As I mentioned earlier, he made a very intelligent tactical switch in the second half. But why the fudge did he wait until then? The reason why the 4-4-2 was going to work against Arsenal was because Adebayor drops deep and acts as an extra body in midfield when we need him there, and it also prevents them from pushing too far forward as we have two strikers they need to worry about if we counter. As soon as Ade goes off, those things aren't true any more, so we should have changed the formation. I have seen a 10 man 4-4-1 work well in the past, we all remember Berbatov's outstanding performances in the Emirates Marketing Project away cup win and the 4-1 win at home to Bolton, but the reason he could play that role is because his hold up play was truly world class. Defoe isn't that kind of player, and this was a recipe for disaster. It it had been Defoe that got sent off, I would have said keep the formation for a little longer and see how it goes, because at least Ade could hold the ball up a bit. But we kept it, for almost half an hour and 3 goals longer than we should have done. The Arsenal players and crowd were buoyed by the fact that one of our players, and not just any player, but Adebayor, had been sent off, and we knew an onslaught was coming. The thing to do there would have been to get physical, aggressive and in their faces, as we were still winning and if we could fight back with a great big fudge you until the crowd had started to get frustrated again, we'd have had a decent chance. Instead...we gifted them 3 goals. If AVB hadn't realised what was coming when the red card happened, the first 5 minutes of constant Arsenal pressure before the equaliser should have been enough to get the message to him. Then the first goal came, then the second, then the third. The whole way through I was screaming for a change, but by the time it came, the match was over. The best managers don't wait until half-time to change things around, they spot when something is wrong and change it straight away. AVB's indecisiveness has cost us for the second week in a row.
Mumorn
Vic Buckingham
I still have wet dreams of us under Ramos beating City in the League Cup with 10 men, what a performance that was.
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
Naughton off, Dempsey on, Bale to LB. A bit more defensive presence in the middle of the park was what was needed, and Walcott was tearing Naughton a new one. Dawson then coming on for Walker so we could go 3 at the back and pack the midfield was a good decision, though as I said, not one I'd have thought of myself.
SUIYHA
Scott Parker
Inter away - came back from 4-0 down to 4-3 with 10 men
Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home - Kaboul was sent off in the first half, we then maintained possession extremely well to close out the half before scoring two second half goals to win the match
Villa away - Defoe sent off in the first half, continued to play excellent counter attacking football and scored one of the goals of the season in the second half to win the game
Arsenal away - two goals down at half time, looked like game over in a fixture we hadn't won in 17 years - ended with 3 points to Tottenham
Arsenal home - Fought back from 3-1 down to get it back to 3-3, and in the end we could have won the game
The problem came back a bit last season...the only real example I can think of from there was when we fought back from two goals down to City away and probably should have won the game.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
I think it's clear we may have to take some steps back, in order to ultimately go further forward. It's clear when we play the poorer teams at home that it's a problem with the game plan 'clicking' rather than actually getting ripped apart or because the players aren't motivated or because they aren't playing for the manager. AVB is trying to get our players to think about the game in a different way, and be able to counter different types of situations. And it's the kind of thing that because it's quite a different philosophy, it may take a while to not only understand, but be able to carry out in competitive matches. But once it does click, we could be all the better for it.
It's not just about brick managers and good managers. I don't really think there is any such thing. There is the right managers for the right club. Do you actually think AVB is brick? What is it about him exactly? That he doesn't 'get' tactics? That the players don't like him? Why are you against him so much? Yes results aren't great, but we are 8th in a highly competitive league and we have already had one historic result this season plus a good run of form. Performances have been poor, but it's so clearly because the way of playing and thinking about the game on the pitch hasn't clicked for the players yet, rather than any actual problem with the manager. And that's the nature of transition, especially to a highly different way of playing from the previous guy. It's also the nature of losing a legendary centre back alongside one of the best midfield play makers in world football. Yes we have got some good players in to replace them but again, it will take time for them to play he wants.
I suspect he could quite easily get good results and performances by carrying on with Harry's preparation style and keeping the changes to an absolute minimum, but then the players wouldn't be learning how to play in a way that would see truly consistent performances that could reach the heights we want to reach, without the money to get there a quicker way. And to do that, it will take a period of transition. Of course results are dodgy, of course performances could be much improved. But this is a highly competitive league season. Man United have already lost 3 games. Arsenal have made their worst start for decades. West Brom are shocking everyone. There are no easy games.
Levy has seen too many good managers come through now, and I think he is too wise to think results can be instant. He knows what he wants to turn the club into, and I think he has realised that giving a manager time for a long term project is the only way at a club like ours if we want to compete with the best. What exactly do you want to happen? Sack AVB and start again, when he is nowhere near getting the type of players that would work for his ideal style of football? Madness. If after 2 seasons we've provided him with good players that he wants and there is still no progress, then by all means sack him. But until then we will not have given time enough to see if his methods can get us to where we want to be.
And the stuff about moaning about us not doing well with ten men...in a North London Derby...come on. Sometimes you just have to accept that we probably aren't going to win. AVB came out of that game with a lot of credit yesterday, and deservedly so.
unit kaboom
Kevin Dearden
As i said
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indianspur
Guest
so we were not in control for 90 mins
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indianspur
Guest
some of the players were affected, but the ones that werent should have performed better.
I seem to remember that we had so few available players that at least two were ill whilst on the pitch. We were effectively playing with 8 or 9 men in West Ham's cup final.
parklane1
Vic Buckingham
Anyone who starts a thread with the words Some really deluded people in this thread. is not here to debate with anyone, just throw insults around, or do you disagree with that?
W5, D2, L5
Says it all - this has been a poor season so far. All down to poor leadership at the top (Levy), what was he thinking when he appointed avb? Especially when Moyes practically said he'd be interested on the BBC!!
Yesterday was yet another example of what is wrong with our club. Years of mediocrity needs good leadership to shake off!
Says it all - this has been a poor season so far. All down to poor leadership at the top (Levy), what was he thinking when he appointed avb? Especially when Moyes practically said he'd be interested on the BBC!!
Yesterday was yet another example of what is wrong with our club. Years of mediocrity needs good leadership to shake off!
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indianspur
Guest
imo it was food poisoning combined with a serious case of bottling it Tottenham style which led to all that happened that day
i cannot think in the history of football of another team going through something like that.....lots of clubs have mega important games, league or cup, and yet what happened to the Spurs players that day in May seems to be pretty unique
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indianspur
Guest
wasnt impressed at all with how Moyes led Everton during the FA semi against Liverpool....Liverpool were there for the taking, Everton even went 1 goal up and all Moyes did was to instruct his team to hold onto that goal lead which of course they failed to do
It was a big game, and he blew it.