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Alfie Mawson

AdamB said:
To emphasise my point on the need for another CB, assume we play 60 games in all comps. Then that's 180 starting CB positions (excluding the 60 bench roles) so I'd split them as:

- TA starts 45 by the time he misses the odd game (and you need to remember that he'll have a few internationals as well)
- JV starts 45
- Wimmer say 30
- New CB 30
- Dier 20-25 in addition so say 20-30 as a DM
- CCV 5-10

This is what convinces me that we're 1 short at CB
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That assumes us playing a back 3 in all those games. Why assume that?

Edit: I agree that Dier is not at the level of Jan and Toby. But I also think we'll do really well to find someone that's clearly better than him and willing to sign for us as a squad player of sorts.
 
braineclipse said:
I agree that Dier is not at the level of Jan and Toby. But I also think we'll do really well to find someone that's clearly better than him and willing to sign for us as a squad player of sorts.
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Particularly as the way that we play a three at the back requires Verts and Dier to push forward and start play from the back.
 
braineclipse said:
Edit: I agree that Dier is not at the level of Jan and Toby. But I also think we'll do really well to find someone that's clearly better than him and willing to sign for us as a squad player of sorts.
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In terms of finding someone who is clearly better than Dier...it depends on how you look at this. I think he's a top class DM but less good at CB - for example, I think he's clearly international standard as a DM but not as a CB. Signing someone who is early 20s, on the fringe of international football is most realistic for us given our wage structure and stadium consuming all our capital. I do think we're short at CB though - if Wanyama gets an injury then Dier has to play DM full-time which leaves us short of CB options
 
Initially I had only seen him play a few times, but not at his best and not not having realised his relatively tender age. He has clearly started to perform at a higher level and in my mind does show a lot of potential but is like most other 20/21 y/o CBs in not being quite the complete package just yet.

I've nothing against Wimmer, who has been outstanding for spells covering Verts in numerous games, which shouldn't go unnoticed. It's more for his sake that he ideally should be a mainstay somewhere, his problem here is that with positional ability limited to CB it's very hard to for young Kevin to force his way in to this team. It depends on his mindset and current feeling following a less than outstanding season but I think he could leave to quite a surprisingly decent team and do well there..

Back to Swansea, having stayed up there's not an obvious need to sell, and could have plenty of cash via siggy if he leaves. For where Mawson is at present, perhaps a full season in the premier league is best rather than perhaps infrequent games with us.

My vote would be to speak privately with Clement and board about a transfer with immediate loan for duration of season where we might also pay a percentage of his wages; and get Onomah there on loan to nail the DM position and get some proper mileage under his belt as well.

Being lazy at research I don't know how Mawson's contract situation is but they're not going to let him go for less then 20/25m by any stretch unless they have to. It's a lot of ifs, but if we get funds from the sale of Walker and Wimmer it's not a bad investment to make to have another young quality English player around for our first season at the new stadium.

That would mean the immediate move would perhaps be more experienced cover for this season, essentially to be 4th CB unless Poch really has high ambitions for CCV imminently , in which case, more funds accumulated so happy days either way.

My hope is that as things like this might be being discussed and have less pressure re deadlines that our focus is more on finding the quality needed to push on, in more forward areas of the pitch but maybe that's a little optimistic...


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AdamB said:
In terms of finding someone who is clearly better than Dier...it depends on how you look at this. I think he's a top class DM but less good at CB - for example, I think he's clearly international standard as a DM but not as a CB. Signing someone who is early 20s, on the fringe of international football is most realistic for us given our wage structure and stadium consuming all our capital. I do think we're short at CB though - if Wanyama gets an injury then Dier has to play DM full-time which leaves us short of CB options
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Well... no, not really.

4 at the back leaves Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Wimmer and Carter Vickers.

We also have the option of playing Dembele next to Winks (or Onomah?) in midfield.

Where Dier ends up as his best position is still an open question as far as I'm concerned.
 
AdamB said:
In terms of finding someone who is clearly better than Dier...it depends on how you look at this. I think he's a top class DM but less good at CB - for example, I think he's clearly international standard as a DM but not as a CB. Signing someone who is early 20s, on the fringe of international football is most realistic for us given our wage structure and stadium consuming all our capital. I do think we're short at CB though - if Wanyama gets an injury then Dier has to play DM full-time which leaves us short of CB options
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Correct me if I'm wrong but he has just played centre back for the season for the best defence in the country - their are players playing international football who could only dream of that. Dier is certainly international standard IMO at centre back and centre mid. England actually need to look at how we use his flexibility at Spurs and see if it can be applied to the England side

I do agree with your comments about the type of player we need to sign though
 
NaijaSpurs said:
Why would Wimmer want to stay when he saw so little game time last season.
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He'll stay because it suits the club and he is still under contract. He might not particularly like it but that won't change things much.We have all seen him play to a high level the season before so it is in him to do better and get more minutes on the pitch.
If Poch deems him not up to the task then so be it.
 
Rorschach said:
He'll stay because it suits the club and he is still under contract. He might not particularly like it but that won't change things much.We have all seen him play to a high level the season before so it is in him to do better and get more minutes on the pitch.
If Poch deems him not up to the task then so be it.
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But therein lies the rub, I do not think it does suit the club. Poch has little faith in him and I believe he will go for someone that he trusts. The problem is we are asking for £20m and he is not worth that
 
AdamB said:
He's far better as a DM
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Well that isnt really what was said is it - you said he isnt a Cb which clearly isnt the case as that is where he has spent his entire career playing, save for one season. Whether you personally think he is a better DM than he is a CB doesn't really change that fact.

Rare to find a polished young CB as it's a position which players usually mature in to over time - so for me that alongside him playing with two of the best CBs in the league means he sometimes get held up to a higher standard than should be expected of him. When playing DM he had Dembele to hold his hand and Alderwiereld/Vertonghen behind meaning he was less exposed than he is at CB, where he has more responsibility.
 
Back to the subject of Alfie Mawson; I was pleased when we signed Chiriches as he was captaining his national team, was young, an Eastern European hardnut, what could possibly go wrong?

I quite like Wimmer and he's married to Son, but we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.
 
Bullet said:
Back to the subject of Alfie Mawson; I was pleased when we signed Chiriches as he was captaining his national team, was young, an Eastern European hardnut, what could possibly go wrong?

I quite like Wimmer and he's married to Son, but we don't know what goes on behind the scenes.
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Cheeky bid?

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I think Poch might like to play Dier and Wanyama together in midfield more often, in which case we could do with another centre-half (if Wimmer leaves).

Dier and Wanyama didn't look great as a pair early season, but they played together in some games towards the end and looked very good. Wanyama almost seemed to take to the Dembele role in the team.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Wimmer and 2CV barely played half a dozen games between them (2CVs only one was against Gillingham IIRC) last season, despite injuries to Alder and Verts

Unlike other positions, CBs don't need to be rotated
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And should not be rotated unless absolutely necessary.
 
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