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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

Bedfordspurs said:
I don’t think we have a world beaters
I don’t think we have a squad on par with Leeds though… ours is better
I really liked Frank at Brentford for what he did there. Actually did some research on how he okayed in April time (joys of gardening leave) and was impressed with how his team got promoted
Didnt really look at recent prem form as we know they have been comfortable most of the time
I also fully expected him to have us organised and motivated… fully aware we may have bumps on the road
But we don’t look organised at all
Motivation seems the lowest I’ve seen in some time
Form is on par with the year we got relegated
We’re desperately waiting on the injured saviours to get us back up the table but they are a long way odd returning
And all the new players are clearly brick along with the ones who were here already
Players who are good enough to play for top international sides aren’t actually very good it seems (and I think international football is a low bar)

And as an aside we don’t have any players to really invest in (huge issue for me). No youth near the squad and senior players who rarely look happy to be here
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At best we’re a top 6 side and I think that’s being very generous and if the likes of Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Chelsea have shockers.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Of course
It’s a Chelsea club he is at
Fabregas has done a top job but is a fudgetard
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Gritted teeth job isn’t it, he’s done a good job there but I’d genuinely rather stop watching football than have him anywhere near Spurs. Not that I think he would ever take it anyway.

Le Bris has done great, I wondered if at first he would have a good first few games and then it would all just catch up with them quality wise, but he’s got great results against the top sides so far too. I’d fancy them to do us home and away on current form. Did enjoy them beating the Geordies.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
What does he want?
Most managers show that so fans can see and it’s clear from the players too
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I think he wants smart decisions based on the game state. It’s a bit Italian, it’s a little bit Jose actually tactically, but I think he comes at it more from a very different management and motivational style. But essentially I think he wants the players to be able to adjust well based on the game state, to essentially play the percentages (I mean that not in a derogatory sense, because playing percentages could mean attacking a lot with inverted full backs like vs Brentford) and then over the longer term, the results fall in our favour.

Which is why I’ve said I’m willing to give him time, in the sense I don’t think he deserves less time to see his methods come to fruition just because he’s not building a pure system like an Amorim, or even an Ange, or a Conte or whatever. His methods, especially when such a departure from what the squad will have been used to, will take time.

That said, I think he could have done better at explaining this, so it gives the crowd something to get behind. I guess he has said we need to defend better, we need to be smarter, we need to not be so open etc. But he’s also said if you don’t take risk you’ve taken risk. And that just means when we put in some of the truly bad in possession performances that we have done, it flies in the face of what he’s supposedly said.

Comms is such a big part of it, in getting fan and squad buy in. Maybe he’s done ok with squad buy in, but I think he’s left himself in a position where only results will get him fan buy in.
 
Rafa87 said:
Gritted teeth job isn’t it, he’s done a good job there but I’d genuinely rather stop watching football than have him anywhere near Spurs. Not that I think he would ever take it anyway.

Le Bris has done great, I wondered if at first he would have a good first few games and then it would all just catch up with them quality wise, but he’s got great results against the top sides so far too. I’d fancy them to do us home and away on current form. Did enjoy them beating the Geordies.
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I’ll hold my hands up and say anyone getting Sunderland up did well
But he has been another level now
Will it continue…. No idea. Their away form isn’t great but he has done rebutting alongside his team to set them up for every game

From what I’ve seen I’ve always liked Italianos football. Doubt that would translate here but then de zerbi kind of did

Im way out of touch on managers in Spain and the Netherlands
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
I think he wants smart decisions based on the game state. It’s a bit Italian, it’s a little bit Jose actually tactically, but I think he comes at it more from a very different management and motivational style. But essentially I think he wants the players to be able to adjust well based on the game state, to essentially play the percentages (I mean that not in a derogatory sense, because playing percentages could mean attacking a lot with inverted full backs like vs Brentford) and then over the longer term, the results fall in our favour.

Which is why I’ve said I’m willing to give him time, in the sense I don’t think he deserves less time to see his methods come to fruition just because he’s not building a pure system like an Amorim, or even an Ange, or a Conte or whatever. His methods, especially when such a departure from what the squad will have been used to, will take time.

That said, I think he could have done better at explaining this, so it gives the crowd something to get behind. I guess he has said we need to defend better, we need to be smarter, we need to not be so open etc. But he’s also said if you don’t take risk you’ve taken risk. And that just means when we put in some of the truly bad in possession performances that we have done, it flies in the face of what he’s supposedly said.

Comms is such a big part of it, in getting fan and squad buy in. Maybe he’s done ok with squad buy in, but I think he’s left himself in a position where only results will get him fan buy in.
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He has had so many pressers but I’ve not seen one where he has talked about his football plans… missed opportunity when trying to get fans on board

We don’t take risks - so that was the first contradiction (or lie as the bloke in format or me on Saturday said)

He massively needs results and fortunately we play palace after a huge rest period where their squad is being stretched due to volume

We okay Brentford who were as weak as kittens when they played us

And then Sunderland missing a chunk of players to Afcon

We’re now 14th in the league, having brought in 4 players of which only one is a frequent starter
 
Mikey10 said:
I tend to agree with Dan Kilpatruck and Jack Pitt-Brooke on today’s LWOS: that we have a bottom end of mid-table squad, and an ownership who have turned us into the Man United of the south - still considered to be ‘a big 6’ club but with a squad which places us nowhere near that level. Also agree with them that there is no silver bullet answer as the problems are deep-seated and will likely take years to begin to solve, no matter which manager is in charge.
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Is that with or without Kulu, Maddison, and Solanke?

I think this squad with the above players fit plus time for new players and manager to settle, are qualifiing for Europe. It isn't a bad squad, its an unsettled one. We lost our whole attack from last season and our midfield is lacking, and we've lost Bissouma. But Maddison and Kulu are the real losses. They were the players who took responsibility to drive play.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Is fight part of 'style of play' then maybe you can tick off a little of your wants there.

I woudl suggest that much of the rest of 'style of play' is simply the side gelling and passing and moving better. And of course scoring more and winning.
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First part...I think it's what you hope for week in week out, but it has been sporadic with us, so great to see it happening.

As for the second part, I know that's your POV. I still want to know what he is aiming for with regards to an actual identity.
 
thfcsteff said:
First part...I think it's what you hope for week in week out, but it has been sporadic with us, so great to see it happening.

As for the second part, I know that's your POV. I still want to know what he is aiming for with regards to an actual identity.
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Identity football!

When Frank was appointed one of the things celebrated (by some who are now putting the boot in) is that he can change things up. He isn't a one system manager. Frank has the capacity to adapt and he understands different setups and sytles of play. Of course, right now, he needs to establish an identity and way of playing. But that isn't a snap your fingers thing, especially if you value a coach who has some dexterity. A coach who can adapt and evolve a side.

Frank is very much working out the side and its identity now. Even if it was a manager who has a set formula, they would be bedding in and dealing with a new attack, and an underpowered midfield. Not having Kulu and Madderson leaves us so light in middfield and attack.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Identity football!

When Frank was appointed one of the things celebrated (by some who are now putting the boot in) is that he can change things up. He isn't a one system manager. Frank has the capacity to adapt and he understands different setups and sytles of play. Of course, right now, he needs to establish an identity and way of playing. But that isn't a snap your fingers thing, especially if you value a coach who has some dexterity. A coach who can adapt and evolve a side.

Frank is very much working out the side and its identity now. Even if it was a manager who has a set formula, they would be bedding in and dealing with a new attack, and an underpowered midfield. Not having Kulu and Madderson leaves us so light in middfield and attack.
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I am not sure whatyou want me to say.
Would you like me to say, 'SpurMeUp, I accept wholeheartedly that my opinions on this matter are not worthy and hereby say you are right and have been all along'?
Sorry. That won't happen.

I can't be much clearer on my viewpoint than I've repeatedly been, and it still leaves me no closer to agreeing with you on your central opinion.
I certainly HOPE we end up at a place where we generally play attractive football (pragmatic moments are necessary in big games of course) and win things with Thomas Frank. He is currently our manager. I want him to succeed.
But again, we are a 'special case club' for a multitude of reasons, and as such, I do not believe he will get the same amount of time as he did at previous clubs. One thing I have great sympathy with him for, is the upstairs situation. He has come from an extremely stable off-the-pitch set-up, one which was consistent in both policy and staffing, and he has ended up at a club which is in churn at the executive end. It cannot be remotely helpful. Between that and (looking like) he is losing one of his top assistant coaches mid-season, it is certainly not ideal for him.
 
thfcsteff said:
I am not sure whatyou want me to say.
Would you like me to say, 'SpurMeUp, I accept wholeheartedly that my opinions on this matter are not worthy and hereby say you are right and have been all along'?
Sorry. That won't happen.

I can't be much clearer on my viewpoint than I've repeatedly been, and it still leaves me no closer to agreeing with you on your central opinion.
I certainly HOPE we end up at a place where we generally play attractive football (pragmatic moments are necessary in big games of course) and win things with Thomas Frank. He is currently our manager. I want him to succeed.
But again, we are a 'special case club' for a multitude of reasons, and as such, I do not believe he will get the same amount of time as he did at previous clubs. One thing I have great sympathy with him for, is the upstairs situation. He has come from an extremely stable off-the-pitch set-up, one which was consistent in both policy and staffing, and he has ended up at a club which is in churn at the executive end. It cannot be remotely helpful. Between that and (looking like) he is losing one of his top assistant coaches mid-season, it is certainly not ideal for him.
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Nothing looks different at the club he has left, so far. That’s testament to a bell of an organised and well structured club
Just like Brighton
Some clubs have the right processes and people who suit their structure that means losing parts of it doesn’t make a dent
Matty wells leaving is intriguing. Huge move for him
Paratici and these rumours seems a solid exit too
Neither can help him
 
thfcsteff said:
I am not sure whatyou want me to say.
Would you like me to say, 'SpurMeUp, I accept wholeheartedly that my opinions on this matter are not worthy and hereby say you are right and have been all along'?
Sorry. That won't happen.

I can't be much clearer on my viewpoint than I've repeatedly been, and it still leaves me no closer to agreeing with you on your central opinion.
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Our conversation started where you said you didn't like our style of play, and I asked you to outline what style of play you didn't like or maybe wanted.
thfcsteff said:
I certainly HOPE we end up at a place where we generally play attractive football (pragmatic moments are necessary in big games of course) and win things with Thomas Frank. He is currently our manager. I want him to succeed.
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winning games is what buys managers time, so they can then polish and refine. So I'd simple settle for us winning a few games first and foremost. It helps players with confidence, fans with belief, takes away pressure from staff etc. It is all about winning games, football always has been, despite protestations.
thfcsteff said:
But again, we are a 'special case club' for a multitude of reasons, and as such, I do not believe he will get the same amount of time as he did at previous clubs. One thing I have great sympathy with him for, is the upstairs situation. He has come from an extremely stable off-the-pitch set-up, one which was consistent in both policy and staffing, and he has ended up at a club which is in churn at the executive end. It cannot be remotely helpful. Between that and (looking like) he is losing one of his top assistant coaches mid-season, it is certainly not ideal for him.
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Totally agree. Frank is building without much foundation. Just a backline really. Midifeld and attack are at sea. He's lost all the senior attacking players from last season, and has to bed in new players whilst developing the identity and side. Maybe some managers can press buttons and instill more belief in players quicker than Frank - get them playing with confidence - but the biggest confidence builder is winning.

It has been an aweful year. 4 wins at home in 1 year is a shocker. Probably one of the worst on record for Spurs. That started pre-Frank, but I think he will come good, if the fans show patience. Which of course we know will never happen!
 
SpurMeUp said:
Is that with or without Kulu, Maddison, and Solanke?

I think this squad with the above players fit plus time for new players and manager to settle, are qualifiing for Europe. It isn't a bad squad, its an unsettled one. We lost our whole attack from last season and our midfield is lacking, and we've lost Bissouma. But Maddison and Kulu are the real losses. They were the players who took responsibility to drive play.
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Yeah there is not a side in this league that would lose their two most creative midfielders and first choice striker and not struggle. If Villa had not had Watkins, Rogers and Tielemans from the start of this season where would they be? Nowhere near where they are is the answer.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I love the way posters try to pretend there is a seperation. As though watching the team only win 4 games in a year could be enjoyable if only they'd play with style.
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I'll speak personally and not for @Finney Is Back ...I'll put that stat aside and focus on Ange's awful portion of it. Seeing us sticking to the same philosophy whether (for example) Archie Gray was at CB or Cristian Romero gave me great hope that we were bedding in a culture. Sometimes the performances were great, albeit when he had to regularly field sides with Fraser Forster in goal and several teenagers who simply had to step up, that was hard.
The injuries were shocking.
I personally believe many were still dealing with that ludicrously timed World Cup's fall out, added to the other rampant run of games. Seeing that there was an adjustment in order to win the Europa League? That, added to the overall style, added to the creation of a squad which actually got over the line despite no Maddison, Deki or Bergvall, was enough to help me personally override the league form and write it off as part of an injury-drenched anomaly.
I personally would've liked to see where this journey went. My preference. I am aware of other opinions, all good.

At the time of the names swirling around, I said of all of them I felt Frank was the best fit for for our club and the way it was set-up. A team member. A boardoom gent. A good communicator and a man with a higher coaching ceiling it seemed. I focussed on his Brentford side which went up style-wise, not the PL Brentford. I hoped we'd see strong signs of that Brentford from their promotion year, only with our squad and club resources. Sadly it has not happened, and again, in fairness to Frank, the boardroom he signed up for has had many changes (albeit his mate Lange is in a strong position still).
So trust me, I want to believe. I just need a sign that our destination is not to become a permanent counter-attacking side.
 
thfcsteff said:
I'll speak personally and not for @Finney Is Back ...I'll put that stat aside and focus on Ange's awful portion of it. Seeing us sticking to the same philosophy whether (for example) Archie Gray was at CB or Cristian Romero gave me great hope that we were bedding in a culture. Sometimes the performances were great, albeit when he had to regularly field sides with Fraser Forster in goal and several teenagers who simply had to step up, that was hard.
The injuries were shocking.
I personally believe many were still dealing with that ludicrously timed World Cup's fall out, added to the other rampant run of games. Seeing that there was an adjustment in order to win the Europa League? That, added to the overall style, added to the creation of a squad which actually got over the line despite no Maddison, Deki or Bergvall, was enough to help me personally override the league form and write it off as part of an injury-drenched anomaly.
I personally would've liked to see where this journey went. My preference. I am aware of other opinions, all good.

At the time of the names swirling around, I said of all of them I felt Frank was the best fit for for our club and the way it was set-up. A team member. A boardoom gent. A good communicator and a man with a higher coaching ceiling it seemed. I focussed on his Brentford side which went up style-wise, not the PL Brentford. I hoped we'd see strong signs of that Brentford from their promotion year, only with our squad and club resources. Sadly it has not happened, and again, in fairness to Frank, the boardroom he signed up for has had many changes (albeit his mate Lange is in a strong position still).
So trust me, I want to believe. I just need a sign that our destination is not to become a permanent counter-attacking side.
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Beggers can't be choosers. We just need to get some wins on the board. Then we can get back to being football snobs :)
 
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