OMT: Everton vs Mighty Spurs

[scaramanga]

And it's possible to have a good game despite what pass completion stats are telling us.

What about when pass completion is low, but total passes, touches, goals and key passes are also low? Then what if total losses of possession is high?

I agree that any one stat can be taken out of context, but when a player is down on every attacking measure you have to start listening to what they tell you.

 

[Lemonade Money]

I get that it's why he was bought - I think that Poch is wrong in both his reasoning and his choice of player. He's especially wrong in picking that player against teams we can pass around - like Everton.

Spurs at Everton without Sissoko:
03 Jan 2016 Everton v Tottenham Hotspur D 1-1
13 Aug 2016 Everton v Tottenham Hotspur D 1-1
Spurs at Everton with Sissoko:
09 Sep 2017 Everton v Tottenham Hotspur W 0-3

 

[scaramanga]

Spurs at Everton without Sissoko:
03 Jan 2016 Everton v Tottenham Hotspur D 1-1
13 Aug 2016 Everton v Tottenham Hotspur D 1-1
Spurs at Everton with Sissoko:
09 Sep 2017 Everton v Tottenham Hotspur W 0-3

Do you want me to pull up records like that for every brick player we've had? Because we both know they'll be there if anyone wishes to search long enough.

 

[Lemonade Money]

I'm the only one to have backed up my opinion with facts. Please feel free to provide contrary evidence if you have some.

Do you want me to pull up records like that for every brick player we've had? Because we both know they'll be there if anyone wishes to search long enough.

Go for it!

 

[scaramanga]

Go for it!

Spurs away at Blackburn without Goran Bunjevcevic:
'99 1-1 Draw
'01 2-1 Loss

With Bunjevcevic:
'02 1-2 Win

Now we both know that's a waste of my time and yours. Too many factors vary year to year just in our own team, let alone our opponents to measure them by the team's results.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Spurs away at Blackburn without Goran Bunjevcevic:
'99 1-1 Draw
'01 2-1 Loss

With Bunjevcevic:
'02 1-2 Win

Now we both know that's a waste of my time and yours. Too many factors vary year to year just in our own team, let alone our opponents to measure them by the team's results.

I thought we were specifically talking about Pochettino's reasoning and choice of player in a passing team?

 

[scaramanga]

I thought we were specifically talking about Pochettino's reasoning and choice of player in a passing team?

The point still stands - too many variables across both teams change to be able to say that a win is purely down to the inclusion of a player who we have already established had little involvement in our win.

 

[alekaras]

But we should be criticising the manager for picking him though right? After all, a Sunday League player would be significantly less good at football than the rest of our team, less good than those on the bench and detrimental to our chances of winning matches (even if we're winning despite that player).

Yes, but you've been criticizing the player, not the manager, in all your posts.

 

[Lemonade Money]

The point still stands - too many variables across both teams change to be able to say that a win is purely down to the inclusion of a player who we have already established had little involvement in our win.

I must have missed this.

Leon Osman on Moussa Sissoko: "He has made a massive difference for Tottenham, the runs he's made have caused a real problem for Everton."

Moussa Sissoko

Not many players can encapsulate the sublime and ridiculous within a split second, but the Frenchman can do just that.

However, there's no denying he does offer something to this Tottenham team. His direct running, pace and power are tools that combined are not available elsewhere among Pochettino's midfield options.

He will fluff something basic one moment, but his team mates do benefit from the breaks he embarks on and the space that can give to others.
http://www.football.london/tottenha...danny-rose-pochettino-sissoko-koeman-13603079

 

[scaramanga]

Yes, but you've been criticizing the player, not the manager, in all your posts.

I don't think I have.

I'm fairly sure that Sissoko is playing to something like the best of his ability. It's not his fault he's a bit brick, but Poch shouldn't be picking him.

 

[scaramanga]

I must have missed this.

The bit where I showed how he has had fewer touches of the ball than all outfield players bar Kane.

I've spoken before about how I feel on the subject of paying footballers to talk about football. Even if we assume that they're more likely to know more than the average intelligent fan (far from a given), then there's nothing to suggest they have the mental acuity to comprehend and effectively analyse that information.

 

[Kandi1977]

The bit where I showed how he has had fewer touches of the ball than all outfield players bar Kane.

I've spoken before about how I feel on the subject of paying footballers to talk about football. Even if we assume that they're more likely to know more than the average intelligent fan (far from a given), then there's nothing to suggest they have the mental acuity to comprehend and effectively analyse that information.

You don't have to touch the ball to have a massive influence! Did you see Messis third goal yesterday? Neither Dembele or Suarez touched the ball in that attack, but Messi would not have scored without them! Their runs split up the defense like Moses spilt the red sea!

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Have you really resorted to comparing Sissoko to Barcelonas attack in an attempt to defend him?

There are a few in here going to rather excessive lengths to defend him. Its bizarre because there really is very little argument to support him.

Those criticising him hold all the aces! And thats only down to him and his performances, not some agenda against him.

I dont think for a second Scara (for example) WOULDNT be delighted if Sissoko plays a blinder tonight. Its not like its personal, its observation of whats been put in front of us.

 

[scaramanga]

You don't have to touch the ball to have a massive influence! Did you see Messis third goal yesterday? Neither Dembele or Suarez touched the ball in that attack, but Messi would not have scored without them! Their runs split up the defense like Moses spilt the red sea!

That's fine if you're also able to get on the ball and do something with it.

Even if we take the somewhat unlikely position that Sissoko's runs were all intelligent and useful and moved defenders about all over the place, that's not enough. It wouldn't be enough for a brick team, let alone one that tries to keep the ball for most of the match.

 

[Yermiyahu]

I cant believe that I have crawled out of my hurricane bunker after a fine 3_0 away win ,to find people still arguing about Sissoko. Sheesh!

 

[harr1984]

Have you really resorted to comparing Sissoko to Barcelonas attack in an attempt to defend him?

There are a few in here going to rather excessive lengths to defend him. Its bizarre because there really is very little argument to support him.

Those criticising him hold all the aces! And thats only down to him and his performances, not some agenda against him.

I dont think for a second Scara (for example) WOULDNT be delighted if Sissoko plays a blinder tonight. Its not like its personal, its observation of whats been put in front of us.

The point he's making is that you need runners in order to create space, which in turn creates chances and goals. Doesn't matter whether you're Barnsley or Barcelona the concept is the same and it's a valid one.....

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Its also not rocket science, and simply "making runs" doesnt necessarily equate to a meaningful contribution.

My point is that if thats the best defence of him then people really are reaching to try and build a case. Which, basically, supports those making valid criticism of him.

 

[scaramanga]

The point he's making is that you need runners in order to create space, which in turn creates chances and goals. Doesn't matter whether you're Barnsley or Barcelona the concept is the same and it's a valid one.....

Is it valid to include someone in a team just to do that running?

Is Sissoko's ability to run off the ball measurably better than that of those who can control their own feet?

 

[Lemonade Money]

Its also not rocket science, and simply "making runs" doesnt necessarily equate to a meaningful contribution.

My point is that if thats the best defence of him then people really are reaching to try and build a case. Which, basically, supports those making valid criticism of him.

Is it valid to include someone in a team just to do that running?

Is Sissoko's ability to run off the ball measurably better than that of those who can control their own feet?

It's like you've never heard of the tactic known as 'fudging run around a bit'?

 

[harr1984]

Is it valid to include someone in a team just to do that running?

Is Sissoko's ability to run off the ball measurably better than that of those who can control their own feet?

No one other than you is implying that's all he does, or that he can't control his feet. He doesn't have the ball skills of an Eriksen but I don't believe his technical is as bad as can be implied on here. We have enough pretty footballers and his skill set adds something different. See Pochs quotes after Everton game, was very happy with his performance and mentioned how he plays him in different position for different games. This is because he believes his skill set adds something....