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London Bridge and Borough terrorist incident

Parklaner81 said:
So, to take just a handful of examples;

This guy freely and openly parades his views on our streets and on mainstream British television, then goes on to commit this vile atrocity...


...We've allowed hundreds of Jihadi fighters to return to this country to roam the streets, after leaving to fight abroad...

http://news.sky.com/story/battle-hardened-returning-jihadists-pose-uk-terror-threat-10815737


...and we hand out sentences so lenient that the vast majority of convicted terrorists since 9/11 are now free, including 7/7 accomplices and the leader of the airline liquid bombs plot...

http://news.sky.com/story/warning-as-hundreds-of-jailed-terrorists-back-on-uk-streets-10639848


...and you don't think we've been too soft?

Ok. I can see that we probably aren't going to agree on this...
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If prisoners do not engage in reform programmes they should not be realised.
 
braineclipse said:
And how would you handle tens or hundreds of thousands of potential suspects in a way that prevents the kinds of attacks we're seeing?

It's not like nothing is being done. It's not like people are returning from fighting for ISIS declaring their history at the border and coming back in.

To what extent would you have the UK track the activities of its citizens abroad?
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Make anyone who leaves the UK for a country with known terror ties/training camps be required to have an exit visa, that would make them way more easily tracked by the security services I would say. Anyone who left for such a country without permission attempting to come back into the UK should be arrested, but no doubt there will need to be a law created to allow that to happen.

As for the hate preachers, well I'm sorry but if they are doing this and are so against the society and freedoms the UK allows then deport them to a country more in keeping with their views and they can live there happy as a pig in brick and preach their spiel there. Maybe adopt a three strikes rule to keep the PC crowd happy or something, I dunno.

Yes draconian, but no more draconian than running down a street knifing people to death and yes expensive - but what price do you place on an innocent life, be that 15yrs or 80yrs old.
 
braineclipse said:
See my response to Spursman.

To be truly effective against this kind of attack measures would have to be draconian and very expensive.
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Ok so simple question to throw back at you

If a UK citizen is proven to have been to Syria or Libya to fight for IS or a liken'd cell, do you think they should be allowed to return to the UK and back into society without question??

What would you say should be the actions taken to such circumstances?
 
Parklaner81 said:
So, to take just a handful of examples;

This guy freely and openly parades his views on our streets and on mainstream British television, then goes on to commit this vile atrocity...


...We've allowed hundreds of Jihadi fighters to return to this country to roam the streets, after leaving to fight abroad...

http://news.sky.com/story/battle-hardened-returning-jihadists-pose-uk-terror-threat-10815737


...and we hand out sentences so lenient that the vast majority of convicted terrorists since 9/11 are now free, including 7/7 accomplices and the leader of the airline liquid bombs plot...

http://news.sky.com/story/warning-as-hundreds-of-jailed-terrorists-back-on-uk-streets-10639848


...and you don't think we've been too soft?

Ok. I can see that we probably aren't going to agree on this...
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Its utterly ridiculous im with you on this
 
Grays_1890 said:
Ok so simple question to throw back at you

If a UK citizen is proven to have been to Syria or Libya to fight for IS or a liken'd cell, do you think they should be allowed to return to the UK and back into society without question??

What would you say should be the actions taken to such circumstances?
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I think they should be fudged off, sorry you're not welcome anymore
 
braineclipse said:
And how would you handle tens or hundreds of thousands of potential suspects in a way that prevents the kinds of attacks we're seeing?

It's not like nothing is being done. It's not like people are returning from fighting for ISIS declaring their history at the border and coming back in.

To what extent would you have the UK track the activities of its citizens abroad?
Click to expand...

Actually, it's been suggested on Sky news this evening that the third scumbag (to be named) was stopped by police in Italy on his way out to the middle east in the last year or two. Guess what he apparently told them when questioned? 'I'm going out there to fight'. 'To be a terrorist' I think were the words reported. And then he ends up here! This isn't the first time I've heard stories like this. It's not like scumbag number 1 made any effort to hide his extreme views either, albeit in a different format. So I have a feeling that, at least in some cases, there wouldn't be too much work involved.

Where this is reason to believe that British citizens pose a risk to this country in relation to their activities while abroad, some level of monitoring is required. Which I'm sure is already taking place - afterall, we have numbers.

Personally I like the suggestion that anybody with dual nationality be stripped of their British passport if leaving the country to fight abroad. They can't have the best of both worlds any longer. The stakes are too high.
 
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braineclipse said:
And how would you handle tens or hundreds of thousands of potential suspects in a way that prevents the kinds of attacks we're seeing?

It's not like nothing is being done. It's not like people are returning from fighting for ISIS declaring their history at the border and coming back in.

To what extent would you have the UK track the activities of its citizens abroad?
Click to expand...


Can I ask your opinion on the matter of prison sentences by the way? The article I cited earlier included examples such as 7/7 accomplices being free today, and the leader of the transatlantic airliner liquid bomb plot (something more on the scale of 9/11 than London Bridge). Do you still feel that we aren't too soft in light of these cases?
 
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the US media are throwing their hands up at how the evil cnut Butt was on that channel 4 show and then this happened, one thing the US does right and maybe its why so many want to come here is that people really do assimilate here, you don't see the ghettos of say southall or bradford here, its a much more inclusive society, allowing people to only mix with their own breeds contempt.
 
Parklaner81 said:
Actually, it's been suggested on Sky news this evening that the third scumbag (to be named) was stopped by police in Italy on his way out to the middle east in the last year or two. Guess what he apparently told them when questioned? 'I'm going out there to fight'. 'To be a terrorist' I think were the words reported. And then he ends up here! This isn't the first time I've heard stories like this. It's not like scumbag number 1 made any effort to hide his extreme views either, albeit in a different format. So I have a feeling that, at least in some cases, there wouldn't be too much work involved.

Where this is reason to believe that British citizens pose a risk to this country in relation to their activities while abroad, some level of monitoring is required. Which I'm sure is already taking place - afterall, we have numbers.

Personally I like the suggestion that anybody with dual nationality be stripped of their British passport if leaving the country to fight abroad. They can't have the best of both worlds any longer. The stakes are too high.
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Jihadis are cleverly evading the authorities by appearing in documentaries about jihadis with the word jihadi in the title.

That made me laugh
 
Mr_B said:
the US media are throwing their hands up at how the evil cnut Butt was on that channel 4 show and then this happened, one thing the US does right and maybe its why so many want to come here is that people really do assimilate here, you don't see the ghettos of say southall or bradford here, its a much more inclusive society, allowing people to only mix with their own breeds contempt.
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that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? From my understanding there are huge areras where cities are broken down along racial lines and your at risk if you are not part of the racial group.
 
r-u-s-x said:
I prefer the European western society over those in the Middle East - even if that means a little more risk. And where there are stricter laws the results have led to no terror attacks?
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It's surely fair to say that this guy has a little more experience and insight in terms of dealing with these types than us, isn't it? No one is suggesting morphing into a middle eastern society. That doesn't mean we can't take advice from them on issues of which they have special knowledge.
 
Parklaner81 said:
It's surely fair to say that this guy has a little more experience and insight in terms of dealing with these types than us, isn't it? No one is suggesting morphing into a middle eastern society. That doesn't mean we can't take advice from them on issues of which they have special knowledge.
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Is there a record of success? - its difficult to compare because there are totally different situations but terrorist attacks are still happening in Iraq. In fact its still largely a war zone so perhaps his experience should be listened to but rules in a war zone should not necessarily be applied in the UK.
 
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