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Moussa Sissoko

Was okay, I thought. Bit shaky out of position, but then, Son wasn't great at LB either. Held possession decently well, made a couple of incisive passes down the right in the final third as the game wore on. Didn't make too many runs, or defend particularly well, but again, it's a bit unjustified to pick him out for criticism based on this game.
 
So scared. So limited. Like a rugby player asked to play football. A couple of times he was elsewhere on the pitch and shanked the ball and I thought "WHO THE HELL WAS THAT?!!" and then realised it was just Sissoko. Always just trying to poke the ball to someone else and get away from the action.
 
We might well end up selling him this summer, but that will be Poch's decision. If it were up to me, I'll come right out and say it - he stays. He stays, like Janssen and N'Koudou stay.

First seasons mean little. Judge him at this point next year, and it will be much fairer. Now? Pointless, and counter-productive.
 
DubaiSpur said:
We might well end up selling him this summer, but that will be Poch's decision. If it were up to me, I'll come right out and say it - he stays. He stays, like Janssen and N'Koudou stay.

First seasons mean little. Judge him at this point next year, and it will be much fairer. Now? Pointless, and counter-productive.
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He's not a 22 year old playing his first season in England though.

If Pochettino wants to keep him then fine. Just like I imagine you're fine with selling him if that's what Poch wants. But I really struggle to see why keeping him is a good idea.
 
braineclipse said:
He's not a 22 year old playing his first season in England though.

If Pochettino wants to keep him then fine. Just like I imagine you're fine with selling him if that's what Poch wants. But I really struggle to see why keeping him is a good idea.
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I don't care if he's a wide-eyed 22 year old or a veteran pushing 35 joining us off the back of winning the CL and shagging Emily Ratajkowski at the open-top bus parade.

A player signs a contract to train, according to Poch. And he signs a contract for multiple years. If Poch thinks that player has trained hard enough to merit selection (and he's a notoriously hard taskmaster in that regard), then there is no questioning that player's work rate, respect for the club and his teammates, and willingness to be 'brave' (Poch's favorite word).

That's all I want from any signing or youth-teamer, and it's the same for both of them - age doesn't matter, application does. And if we get that, but don't get the performances that usually follow such dedication, then that's forgivable. Not forever, of course not - we're a professional sporting entity at the end of the day, and *some* level of performance is expected and demanded at a certain point. But forgivable to the extent of writing off the first year, if necessary.

Fairly arbitrary, but I'm sticking to it. I will not judge a player on his first year here, if he struggles - I said it when we signed Sissoko and Janssen (over my preferred alternatives), and I'm sticking to it. If Poch sells him, he sells him, and I completely trust the man to do what's best for the club in that respect - but if it were up to me, he stays.
 
DubaiSpur said:
We might well end up selling him this summer, but that will be Poch's decision. If it were up to me, I'll come right out and say it - he stays. He stays, like Janssen and N'Koudou stay.

First seasons mean little. Judge him at this point next year, and it will be much fairer. Now? Pointless, and counter-productive.
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He stays - until we get an upgrade ( which I can't believe will be very difficult).
 
DubaiSpur said:
I don't care if he's a wide-eyed 22 year old or a veteran pushing 35 joining us off the back of winning the CL and shagging Emily Ratajkowski at the open-top bus parade.

A player signs a contract to train, according to Poch. And he signs a contract for multiple years. If Poch thinks that player has trained hard enough to merit selection (and he's a notoriously hard taskmaster in that regard), then there is no questioning that player's work rate, respect for the club and his teammates, and willingness to be 'brave' (Poch's favorite word).

That's all I want from any signing or youth-teamer, and it's the same for both of them - age doesn't matter, application does. And if we get that, but don't get the performances that usually follow such dedication, then that's forgivable. Not forever, of course not - we're a professional sporting entity at the end of the day, and *some* level of performance is expected and demanded at a certain point. But forgivable to the extent of writing off the first year, if necessary.

Fairly arbitrary, but I'm sticking to it. I will not judge a player on his first year here, if he struggles - I said it when we signed Sissoko and Janssen (over my preferred alternatives), and I'm sticking to it. If Poch sells him, he sells him, and I completely trust the man to do what's best for the club in that respect - but if it were up to me, he stays.
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Age and experience surely says something about the likelihood of a player doing better in the future?

Training hard is a necessary part. But it's only one of the necessary parts.
 
braineclipse said:
Age and experience surely says something about the likelihood of a player doing better in the future?

Training hard is a necessary part. But it's only one of the necessary parts.
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Confidence does too. A young player low on confidence will not improve going into a new season unless he gets that confidence back - the same applies for a senior player, no matter how much more hardened he might be to criticism. If your confidence is gone, it's gone - building it back up is a similarly daunting challenge no matter how old you are, and no matter how much rigorous training you undertake. It might be harder for an older player to lose his confidence than it would be for a younger player, but the fact here is that Sissoko has looked hesitant and has played within himself to a large extent, which speaks of a loss of confidence in his situation.

Regardless of that fact, however, he's clearly worked hard enough in training to warrant Poch selecting him, and has gotten along with his teammates enough for them to be supportive of him during in-game moments (a few of my personal highlights of today were Dier and Wanyama wandering over to pat him on the back whenever he defended well - happened a few times as the game wore on). He's trying. Given our fairly comfortable situation in terms of our overall stability and status, I'm happy to give him a bit more time in light of that fact.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Confidence does too. A young player low on confidence will not improve going into a new season unless he gets that confidence back - the same applies for a senior player, no matter how much more hardened he might be to criticism. If your confidence is gone, it's gone - building it back up is a similarly daunting challenge no matter how old you are, and no matter how much rigorous training you undertake. It might be harder for an older player to lose his confidence than it would be for a younger player, but the fact here is that Sissoko has looked hesitant and has played within himself to a large extent, which speaks of a loss of confidence in his situation.

Regardless of that fact, however, he's clearly worked hard enough in training to warrant Poch selecting him, and has gotten along with his teammates enough for them to be supportive of him during in-game moments (a few of my personal highlights of today were Dier and Wanyama wandering over to pat him on the back whenever he defended well - happened a few times as the game wore on). He's trying. Given our fairly comfortable situation in terms of our overall stability and status, I'm happy to give him a bit more time in light of that fact.
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Or Poch started him because it makes him look like less of a flop going into the transfer market?

Confidence is one factor and his confidence is probably low. But he's been poor most of the season, did he start out low on confidence.

For me the bottom line is that he just doesn't look a good fit in our system. He needs space to run into and good counter attacking situations to be effective. And he seems to struggle to fit into an effective pressing unit. This is not based just on one season, that's based on several seasons of PL football for Saudi Sportswashing Machine too.

There were people making all kinds of claims last summer about what he could do. He's failed to live up to that. Greg has seen more of him than any of us I'm guessing and correctly predicted many of the problems he's faced this season. And correctly identified the flaws with the expectations some had towards him.
 
harr1984 said:
He did great for Sons second goal, nowhere to go on the touchline but manages to show strength and vision with the pass. Anyone else and there would have been plenty of mention in the match thread or individual player thread but as it's Sissoko let's not bother.....
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He is still by far our worst midfielder to start a league match this season with nothing to suggest much higher potential. His basic technique is poor
 
There is a kind of sadness in his eyes. The look reminds me of the look of this guy:

Bill_Duke_2_front_LX2qlvdVzr-largeThumb_ffb88af9.jpg
 
braineclipse said:
Or Poch started him because it makes him look like less of a flop going into the transfer market?
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I trust Poch enough to assume that his first priority when choosing players is the well-being of the club, not his own reputation.

braineclipse said:
Confidence is one factor and his confidence is probably low. But he's been poor most of the season, did he start out low on confidence.
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Haven't thought about it much, but there's definitely a solid argument to be made that he did indeed arrive low on confidence - he'd come from relegated Saudi Sportswashing Machine, after all, and it can't have helped, him suddenly finding himself amidst a group of players and coaching staff that was a) on another level to what he had to work with at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, and b) collectively striving for excellence in a way that he probably wasn't accustomed to at Saudi Sportswashing Machine (having only had one good coach in his career there, really - Rafa, at the very tail end of it).

braineclipse said:
For me the bottom line is that he just doesn't look a good fit in our system. He needs space to run into and good counter attacking situations to be effective. And he seems to struggle to fit into an effective pressing unit. This is not based just on one season, that's based on several seasons of PL football for Saudi Sportswashing Machine too.
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Maybe. But a) lack of confidence does strange things to a player, and we're probably not seeing him at his best. And b) many of the same things could be said about some of our other players as well - Wanyama looked a woeful passer based on the evidence of his days at Celtic and Southampton, but he's looking like a bloody decent distributor right now. Rose was simply not cut out to be a left back, with his rashness, defensive lapses of concentration and sub-par technique - until suddenly he was the best left back in the league. Eriksen...GHod, people said all sorts of woefully inaccurate crap about Eriksen. Now they're singing his praises without a care in the world.

Point being, I won't judge quite so quickly. People change, skills can be remastered with enough confidence and a player can look a different beast entirely if he just gets a bit of support and encouragement from time to time.

braineclipse said:
There were people making all kinds of claims last summer about what he could do. He's failed to live up to that. Greg has seen more of him than any of us I'm guessing and correctly predicted many of the problems he's faced this season. And correctly identified the flaws with the expectations some had towards him.
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What people choose to believe about our players is, as I've illustrated, frustratingly dependent on the prevailing zeitgeist, and it's fashionable to make easy promises of support and expect the world when things are going well, but immediately criticize and rush to judgement when things aren't going so well.

I don't deny that people were making all sorts of claims about what he could do. I did too. But the difference is, I don't believe this year counts when assessing what he can or cannot do, because I feel that's the minimum in terms of affording a signing of ours some support before we start minutely examining him and criticizing his every flaw. So I hold that said claim is still valid. He can do a lot of things. Next season will be the time to determine whether or not he does do those things. Not this year. That's the least we could afford to our new signings as fans. If we've learned the contrasting lessons of Rose and Soldado, anyway - which, sadly, I don't think we have.
 
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