Eric Dier

[billyiddo]

I think it's the next step I our development.

Playing a DM is like patching a hole. Once the system's properly settled in then we should be able to get back to playing a passer in there.

i think you misunderstand what makes this team work so well and also the role of the DM in relation to how we play, the DM is vitally important in allowing the defenders to push forward and support our attacking play - take that away and we lose our defensive solidity which means less players getting forward and attacking or more goals conceded as we're outnumbered in defense

 

[parklane1]

We wouldn't have lost that game with dier in midfield

I love wanyama but Dier plays so many more forward passes IMO and takes the ball into the opposition half

Victor had a poor first half and a good second but could you ever see Victor scoring like Matic? Dier has scored some crackers and defensively for me their similar but Dier adds the creative attacking threat

I still think that Dier and Wanyama can play together, the problem there is what we do with Dembélé.

 

[scaramanga]

i think you misunderstand what makes this team work so well and also the role of the DM in relation to how we play, the DM is vitally important in allowing the defenders to push forward and support our attacking play - take that away and we lose our defensive solidity which means less players getting forward and attacking or more goals conceded as we're outnumbered in defense

The teams that are a couple of tiers above us don't need to. Once we get good enough then hopefully we'll be able to as well.

It's a bit of a catch 22, as we need a better passer in there to control the game more which makes it easier to do without the DM.

 

[billyiddo]

The teams that are a couple of tiers above us don't need to. Once we get good enough then hopefully we'll be able to as well.

It's a bit of a catch 22, as we need a better passer in there to control the game more which makes it easier to do without the DM.

unless we change how we play i don't think we need a 'passer' in that role at all, mainly because Dier and Vertonghen are the passers in midfield as Wanyama drops back and allows them to move in to midfield - having a 'passer' in that role would be a waste of his passing abilities

 

[scaramanga]

unless we change how we play i don't think we need a 'passer' in that role at all, mainly because Dier and Vertonghen are the passers in midfield as Wanyama drops back and allows them to move in to midfield - having a 'passer' in that role would be a waste of his passing abilities

I'd rather get to the point where we didn't have any passengers in offense. At the moment Wanyama is one.

I don't discount the value of his defensive abilities, he's as good a DM as I've seen in a long while. I'd just prefer we were better than needing a DM.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

as opposed to playing in a crowded central position when part of a central midfield 2? i don't see it personally

its why this system has been such a success - Wanyama holding court and supporting Alderweireld in defense allowing Vertonghen and Dier (and Rose/Walker) the freedom (and space) to move in to so they can support midfield/attack - we're scoring more and conceding less in the new setup and getting more points on the board, switching back to 4231 or playing Dier in Wanyamas role would be a backwards step, imo

Our recent results playing with Dier in midfield have been our best peorfomances IMO, especially when missing Danny Rose

 

[billyiddo]

I'd rather get to the point where we didn't have any passengers in offense. At the moment Wanyama is one.

I don't discount the value of his defensive abilities, he's as good a DM as I've seen in a long while. I'd just prefer we were better than needing a DM.

you don't seem to appreciate that having an extra man in defense (Wanyama) allows us to attack the way we do - and far from being a passenger it's actually his presence which, indirectly, adds to the numbers we can attack with.

 

[billyiddo]

Our recent results playing with Dier in midfield have been our best peorfomances IMO, especially when missing Danny Rose

3 games?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

3 games?

Look at the goals scored and against

 

[AdamB]

I still think that Dier and Wanyama can play together, the problem there is what we do with Dembélé.

I dont agree with that at all. Dier is good on the ball for a DM, but doesnt compare to a ball playing midfielder. If I remember correctly, Dier and Wanyama played a couple games together when Dembele was suspended and the performances weren't great

 

[billyiddo]

Look at the goals scored and against

3 games mate and we've had high scoring games with Wanyama in the side too.

equally look at our goals scored as a team, last season v this one, we're scoring at a much better rate and keeping them out at the other end at a better rate also, even if you take those 3 games away...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

3 games mate and we've had high scoring games with Wanyama in the side too.

equally look at our goals scored as a team, last season v this one, we're scoring at a much better rate and keeping them out at the other end at a better rate also, even if you take those 3 games away...

Hey I love wanyama

But our last 3 games have been plus 11 minus 1 goal

We have not averaged that ratio this season or last on anykwveek even with some of the bigger wins but it is a small sample size

We may well have got the same results with Victor but I doubt it as Dier scored a couple in those games

I'd add that I saw no sense whatever in Poch changing the team yesterday and IMO iy hurt us

 

[billyiddo]

the sense in the change i guess would be that Wanyama and Dembele as a pairing have dominated Chelsea twice this season already and were the foundation for our comprehensive victory over them at the Lane - probably a match too soon for Wanyama after his injury though tbf

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Hey I love wanyama

But our last 3 games have been plus 11 minus 1 goal

We have not averaged that ratio this season or last on anykwveek even with some of the bigger wins but it is a small sample size

We may well have got the same results with Victor but I doubt it as Dier scored a couple in those games

I'd add that I saw no sense whatever in Poch changing the team yesterday and IMO iy hurt us

Our average before the last 3 games gave us a positive of 1.25 goals per game

Our average with Dier back in with Moussa gave us 3.3 goals positive

That's a massive difference and something that may not be repeatable

 

[Bedfordspurs]

the sense in the change i guess would be that Wanyama and Dembele as a pairing have dominated Chelsea twice this season already and were the foundation for our comprehensive victory over them at the Lane - probably a match too soon for Wanyama after his injury though tbf

Hence why I thought he looked lost first half. Was much more like hinslef second half

 

[billyiddo]

Our average before the last 3 games gave us a positive of 1.25 goals per game

Our average with Dier back in with Moussa gave us 3.3 goals positive

That's a massive difference and something that may not be repeatable

it certainly was an impressive purple patch

 

[Bedfordspurs]

it certainly was an impressive purple patch

fudging scary purple patch

I still think we're in it

Yesterday we played Chelsea off the park but made some errors

We won't repeat them again and we have some hard games but no team IMO can keep up with us

If we had a decent ref yesterday it would have helped but the game was killed by Matic wonder goal which I'm gonna say may never have happened had Victor been on... contrvesial i know

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

I still think that Dier and Wanyama can play together, the problem there is what we do with Dembélé.

I think they can as well, plus Dembele is not fit enough to play two games a week and sadly with his increasing age he is likely to get even more injuries. I have changed my mind on him from two seasons ago and I love him now. But we need a squad and the is space for both of them.

Look at Davies he did not think he would play as many games as he has this season but injuries happen. Aiming for 20 to 30 games a season from Dembele is what we should be looking for.

 

[parklane1]

I dont agree with that at all. Dier is good on the ball for a DM, but doesnt compare to a ball playing midfielder. If I remember correctly, Dier and Wanyama played a couple games together when Dembele was suspended and the performances weren't great

Well we will have to disagree, we started the season off with them as a pairing and it was only when Dier got injured that it changed, then when he came back injurys to our back four happened and he was played there.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I can see why Poch didn't play Dier in midfield yesterday: it wasn't the kind of game for him imo.

Wanyama and Dembele was certainly the right call from a solidity perspective as Dier can be very cumbersome on the turn and vulnerable to have his pocket picked repeatedly when he is faced with pacy counter-attacking types in midfield (see previous games vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine last season, the Chelski draw at the bridge last season, the Liverpool games this season). We certainly have upped our goal output when we've had to switch to the Dembele-Dier pivot during the Burnley game but we have to remember that the calibre of opponents was far below the level that we were going to face in Chelski.

Dier and Wanyama are good options to have but they need to be used wisely and in mind of the opposition we are facing. I think Poch has generally been doing just that.