• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

***OMT - Spurs vs Liverpool***

DubaiSpur said:
Right, but against Liverpool, our style isn't different to our opponent's style. We both press. Just that Klopp's team seems to be *much*, *much* better, smarter and more skilled at it than our lads. And I'm wondering why that is - maybe we should be adopting Liverpool's pressing system instead of our own? Is there a substantive difference between medium block and high block pressing? If so, why were Liverpool the ones closing down all the way up to our keeper today instead of it being the other way around?
Click to expand...

Our style is quite different to Pool, honestly Pool is closer to AVB than Poch, its a suicidal high press with a badly exposed back line. Their midfield doesn't dominate possession (ours can), they break up, then hit a long ball to pace, which in turn finds 5-6 Pool players in the opposition final third, it overloads the defense and you get chaos (as we saw today).

Our press does not involve as many players, we don't overcommit in middle (we tend to wide with FBs), with our best system (3 at back), you always have 4-5 defense players (think MJ's attacking zone vs. defense zone instead of just formations), and two, maybe 3 players in opposition box (Kane, with Deli/Son running on).

The solution is

- don't give the space to hit into, don't have half your team in Pool's half (minimizes chance of your defense being left exposed)
- hit longs balls to expose their back line, you only need two or three players committed to making the runs and you expose them.

My verdict on today

- We were stubborn against a system that has worked against us repeatedly in past.
- Compounded by not being able to play our best team, 3-5-2 with Jan & Rose in the lineup would have countered a lot of the initial chaos.
 
DubaiSpur said:
We *tried*, but every single 50:50, header and loose ball dropped to a Liverpool player. Kane was isolated up front, and even when he had support, a long ball to him would be picked up by a well-positioned red shirt before we could get there.

I don't think such simple tactics would have worked today. We needed something different - I don't know what, but something which breaks this voodoo Klopp has over Poch.

Edit: the pattern of the game was really repetitive, for what it's worth. We alternated between trying to build from the back (which always failed) and lumping it to Kane. Nine times out of ten, the latter approach would fail too, in more dangerous ways - the ball would fall to a Liverpool player, who would send it to Coutinho or Wijnaldum - both of whom would spin and avoid the tackles that came flying in, and were suddenly free in acres of space to advance the ball into the feet of the onrushing Mane/Milner/Firmino/A.N.Other on the edge of our area. We'd lose half the field in terms of territory, and would end it desperately snuffing out a Liverpool shot or cross. Then, we'd take the ball and either laboriously work it forward again (always failing), or lump it clear again and repeat the whole process. Only once out of maybe ten times did Kane actually bring the ball down to a Spurs pair of feet to start a rare foray forward.

That can't be solved by bypassing the midfield, because it's what we were doing anyway.
Click to expand...

That's the point, we didn't commit to anything, so did a bit of nothing. Klopp is undone by simple tactics, watch the next game they play against a brick side, if they don't score in first 20 minutes, it will go tits up.

We needed to sit deeper, Pool already overcommits at the best of times, hit ball (look at the one to Son in first half), have Son, Kane & Alli ready for counter.
I would have actually tried Eriksen deeper, and alternate between Erikson & Toby hitting the long pass.
 
braineclipse said:
We're really good. We're just not good in all match situations.

Match situations that require quick pass and move football by our central midfield, vs. good high pressing or well organized bus parking teams, being my main concern.
Click to expand...
braineclipse said:
Agree fully.

I find it a strange change from the trust and belief shown to ball playing midfielders in Pochettino's first season to the current approach.

I can only assume that there's something I'm missing or that Pochettino is simply rewarding our overall results with game time in big matches for our regular starters.
Click to expand...
Are you forgetting that we had one of the worse defensive records in the league in his first season or that this season we have one of the best as well the highest points totals at this stage of the season?
 
So disappointing! We were so poor in that first half and only ok in the second as Liverpool backed off. No way Son should have started that, play winks in a midfield 3, keep it tight!
 
In my opinion, when teams of equal or more ability than us want to press us high, we struggle because we refuse to adapt our game plan and we don't have good enough technical players to handle it; namely, Dier, Lloris and Wanyama -- all pretty poor in possession when under constant pressure/given few passing options by opposition aggressive pressing.

Opposition will be more aggressive away from home, more so when they are equal/better teams.

The players I mentioned are mostly good for us and an asset. The way we play is perfect for most of our games, as we are better than most opposition we face. For away games against the best sides, Poch need to adapt the tactics and be more pragmatic. We'll still lose our share of these tough away games, but it's not good enough to do what we did today, namely suicidal football. We got lucky against City, we didn't get that today, but the overall game was similar.

I love Poch, but this performance is on him. He is asking players like Lloris, Dier, Wanyama and Davies to handle an aggressive high press with the aplomb of Guardiola's Barca. That's not going to happen and I don't blame those players, I blame the way they were asked to play today.

4 words from Poch would have seen an improvement -- sit deep, go direct.
 
braineclipse said:
I'm probably not making myself very clear. But at this point if the kind of opponents we struggle against isn't clear enough from watching the games I'm not sure it's in me to make that clear.

My opinion on what is the main cause of these problems remains the same as it has been for some time. But apparently that's close to blasphemy on here and making my point clear on this is definitely beyond me tonight.
Click to expand...
It seems the way to beat Liverpool is to adopt an organised defensive shape. Absorb the pressure and hit them on the break. They only turn up against the top 6 anyway.​
 
Robspur12 said:
Are you forgetting that we had one of the worse defensive records in the league in his first season or that this season we have one of the best as well the highest points totals at this stage of the season?
Click to expand...
There were a lot of differences. We still finished 5th with several areas being significantly weaker.
Raziel said:
Our style is quite different to Pool, honestly Pool is closer to AVB than Poch, its a suicidal high press with a badly exposed back line. Their midfield doesn't dominate possession (ours can), they break up, then hit a long ball to pace, which in turn finds 5-6 Pool players in the opposition final third, it overloads the defense and you get chaos (as we saw today).

Our press does not involve as many players, we don't overcommit in middle (we tend to wide with FBs), with our best system (3 at back), you always have 4-5 defense players (think MJ's attacking zone vs. defense zone instead of just formations), and two, maybe 3 players in opposition box (Kane, with Deli/Son running on).

The solution is

- don't give the space to hit into, don't have half your team in Pool's half (minimizes chance of your defense being left exposed)
- hit longs balls to expose their back line, you only need two or three players committed to making the runs and you expose them.

My verdict on today

- We were stubborn against a system that has worked against us repeatedly in past.
- Compounded by not being able to play our best team, 3-5-2 with Jan & Rose in the lineup would have countered a lot of the initial chaos.
Click to expand...
Look at how the teams deal with the press rather than the press itself. Liverpool don't pick central midfielders primarily because of size or tackling ability.
 
braineclipse said:
There were a lot of differences. We still finished 5th with several areas being significantly weaker.
Click to expand...

The main reason for finishing 5th was the number of goals conceded. The attack has hardly changed since then. You could just ignore this of course and the effect Wanyama and dembele have had on making us solid. Poch has not.
 
The formation with which we best walked throughout the season is 3 5 2 without doubts (wba, watford, chelsea etc), it does not matter that we do not have the players necessary to carry it out, it is impossible to try to leave playing from the bottom without Without rose and verth, today wanyama had a very poor match but that is partly because when a team presses as high as today liverpool, and the circuits of play are cut, son, delle and eriksen are far away from the game, generating Lack of people from half to back, a team cut and long, to play with four defenders against teams that press so high we need more fight in the middle, this team fights very well when it can stand in rival field, but it complicates when not Has circuits of game and therefore is cut, today in the first time could have been a catastrophe.
 
10 teams in recent weeks had perfectly demonstrated how to frustrate and beat Liverpoo. Yet Poch decides that we instead should play in a way that most effectively plays into their hands. That's just fudging shocking!!!!

Sent with Miele C1 Vacuum cleaner
 
Why does our spirit go every time every year when we have a chance of being real Title challengers?

Surely we should have some kind of psychological confidence..
I just don,t get it.

Not only that 19 f ing 61 and still no understanding or desire instilled into the Team how important
it is for our fans to win this League..
Gutted for yet another year.

Leicester had more desire than us and that's a sobering thought. This club is just one big soft touch and
As I've said before.

Sorry but that,s how I feel and if I were the Manager I would be instilling a winning mentality
Not a, oh well let's go out on the pitch and see how we do attitude.
It disgust,s me! Bloody shocking.
And as for players like Sissoko.....
Say,s it all doesn't,t it.
Simply not good enough at this level.

Rant over for this year until next bottling time.
 
the dza said:
In my opinion, when teams of equal or more ability than us want to press us high, we struggle because we refuse to adapt our game plan and we don't have good enough technical players to handle it; namely, Dier, Lloris and Wanyama -- all pretty poor in possession when under constant pressure/given few passing options by opposition aggressive pressing.

Opposition will be more aggressive away from home, more so when they are equal/better teams.

The players I mentioned are mostly good for us and an asset. The way we play is perfect for most of our games, as we are better than most opposition we face. For away games against the best sides, Poch need to adapt the tactics and be more pragmatic. We'll still lose our share of these tough away games, but it's not good enough to do what we did today, namely suicidal football. We got lucky against City, we didn't get that today, but the overall game was similar.

I love Poch, but this performance is on him. He is asking players like Lloris, Dier, Wanyama and Davies to handle an aggressive high press with the aplomb of Guardiola's Barca. That's not going to happen and I don't blame those players, I blame the way they were asked to play today.

4 words from Poch would have seen an improvement -- sit deep, go direct.
Click to expand...

Perfect.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back