Berahino in January for £25m?

[Robspur12]

Yes agree. I have no problem with him not selling. I have a problem with him making everything public and attacking the club that I support and thinking that I am stupid enough to believe his bile.

IMO there are 2 separate points here mate

1) that Peace did need to sell Berahino but didn't because he is an idiot - I strongly disagree with this point.

2) that he is shooting off his mouth because he won a "whose got the largest penis contest" with levy.

The second point does show he is a bit of an idiot but that doesn't mean he is lying about the negotiations. After all he is talking from a first hand view of them unlike any one on here. So why should I dismiss his version? That Levy low balled on the fee and the payment structure? It is not that I am willing to believe Peace because I am anti levy but because there is no compelling evidence to the contrary. Let's be clear the reason that Peace is continuing to shoot his mouth off is because levy decided to speak about the transfer in his statement. What's good for one is therefore good for the other. Perhaps in hindsight it was a mistake to mention anything about the transfer in his statement. Levy should know better than to low ball and to put in vexatious bids having been on the selling side himself before and forcing buying clubs to cough up. So at the very least I do not understand the tactic particularly when by their own admission they did not have alternatives lined up.

 

[Robspur12]

Right, so when there is no special insight into the mind to see that he acts irrationally you have to look at the facts. He is a successful businessman who has a significant financial interest in making this club more successful. For him to achieve top dollar he needs a new stadium and a CL/trophy winning team. Why would he jeapordize that just to "turn the screw". He doesn't win, the club doesn't win, the player doesn't win and the selling club doesn't win. Why be so self-destructive? There are no rational reasons, yet you would choose to believe the media and some choice comments from opposing chairman over any of these rational facts.

The guy cannot win. In the posts of today he has been accused of turning the screw on a deal or to try one more squeeze, then he is accused of overpaying for Lamela/Soldado, then he is accused of not taking enough risks.

Then, when asked which other chairman people would want based on success, the silence is deafening.

So in the absence of any facts to the contrary, what are we left with. A bunch of supporters who will blame Levy for anything and everything all because it is easier to find a spacegoat then actually admit that what their own expectations are wildly high and they don't even know what the right thing to do is. He should have paid over the odds for Berahino, but shouldn't have paid over the odds for Lamela. He should show a little ambition and take more risks, he shouldn't have wasted the Bale money on average journeymen. He likes one further squeeze, but only in certain situations in the same transfer window. He should spend £400m on players rather than on a stadium, despite the fact that Chel53a and Emirates Marketing Project, the two clubs that have broken into the top 4 spent more than double that to cement their places in the top 4. He didn't want to turn the screw on N'Jie or Son transfers, but did for the Berahino. Man, he must be an idiot.

I don't think that lamela and berahino are comparable. If you are going to consider one a lower risk signing, surely it will be the Englishman, who has played in the Premier League, top scored for his club score d a respectable amount of goals despite playing for a club largely consisting of journeyman rather than the South American from a different league. You would be far more likely to push the boat out for Berahino?

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

We had a price, they had a price, their price was a lot higher than ours, so no deal was done. I'm not sure why that means Levy was the one that "was played" "lost a poker game" "tucked it up" "embarrassed us" or whatever other numerous derogatory comments have been made about him?

I really can't see how anyone can come to those conclusion's based on what we know of this negotiation? I mean, someone even posted the WBA statement from earlier and said "there you go that's proof levy screwed this up". As if that's some sort of independent neutral assessment of what went on! Yet the same people were slating Levy and Poch's post window statement saying its just PR, well you can't have it both ways!

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Right, so when there is no special insight into the mind to see that he acts irrationally you have to look at the facts. He is a successful businessman who has a significant financial interest in making this club more successful. For him to achieve top dollar he needs a new stadium and a CL/trophy winning team. Why would he jeapordize that just to "turn the screw". He doesn't win, the club doesn't win, the player doesn't win and the selling club doesn't win. Why be so self-destructive? There are no rational reasons, yet you would choose to believe the media and some choice comments from opposing chairman over any of these rational facts.

The guy cannot win. In the posts of today he has been accused of turning the screw on a deal or to try one more squeeze, then he is accused of overpaying for Lamela/Soldado, then he is accused of not taking enough risks.

Then, when asked which other chairman people would want based on success, the silence is deafening.

So in the absence of any facts to the contrary, what are we left with. A bunch of supporters who will blame Levy for anything and everything all because it is easier to find a spacegoat then actually admit that what their own expectations are wildly high and they don't even know what the right thing to do is. He should have paid over the odds for Berahino, but shouldn't have paid over the odds for Lamela. He should show a little ambition and take more risks, he shouldn't have wasted the Bale money on average journeymen. He likes one further squeeze, but only in certain situations in the same transfer window. He should spend £400m on players rather than on a stadium, despite the fact that Chel53a and Emirates Marketing Project, the two clubs that have broken into the top 4 spent more than double that to cement their places in the top 4. He didn't want to turn the screw on N'Jie or Son transfers, but did for the Berahino. Man, he must be an idiot.

Well done mate, unfortunately I don't think it matters what you say at this stage, or how well you say it. It's the internet!

 

[thfcsteff]

Have to say, gazzasrightboot has pretty much nailed it for me. Robspur has also made some fine points. Of course none of this would be an issue of WBA would keep their fudging mouths shut and stop giving the media chum to feed no every single time there's a smidgen of opportunity!!!!

 

[jabbathehut]

Football supporters are irrational. Everybody's an expert.A lot of supporters including myself just think it could have even been better than it is had Levy had done a few things differently.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

IMO there are 2 separate points here mate

1) that Peace did need to sell Berahino but didn't because he is an idiot - I strongly disagree with this point.

2) that he is shooting off his mouth because he won a "whose got the largest penis contest" with levy.

The second point does show he is a bit of an idiot but that doesn't mean he is lying about the negotiations. After all he is talking from a first hand view of them unlike any one on here. So why should I dismiss his version? That Levy low balled on the fee and the payment structure? It is not that I am willing to believe Peace because I am anti levy but because there is no compelling evidence to the contrary. Let's be clear the reason that Peace is continuing to shoot his mouth off is because levy decided to speak about the transfer in his statement. What's good for one is therefore good for the other. Perhaps in hindsight it was a mistake to mention anything about the transfer in his statement. Levy should know better than to low ball and to put in vexatious bids having been on the selling side himself before and forcing buying clubs to cough up. So at the very least I do not understand the tactic particularly when by their own admission they did not have alternatives lined up.

I agree with you on point 1. Peace obviously doesn't need to sell, as he hasn't. That being said, the way the negotiation has been played out has made him look like an idiot which moves on to point 2.

The reason why I think there are lies about the negotiation is because there is no consistency in what is being said. He's not for sale says the chairman in multiple statements. Pulis' stance, his manager, was very different. Even the statement that has come out recently is contradictory which suggests that a) Berahino was for sale and b) whereas before they said there were 15 clubs interested, they now say that there were 2, one of which they don't want to name yet they were quite happy to mention us. WBA and Peace are trying to deflect as much of this brick on us, yet we have done nothing except put an offer in for one of their players. They could very easily have rejected it in silence, and no one would have been any the wiser, and instead we would be arguing over whether a real bid actually did go in.

As for the low-balling, I just don't see it. What price a Berahino. Well the market is strange. @Maltese Falcon mentioned what Benteke went for, which is a player who had 2 years worth of EPL experience. Then of course we have Pedro. Then there's Raheem Sterling. Then there's Welbeck. All comparable signings in different aspects and resulting in a price differential of £30m+ There is no formula for how much a player should be, and this is why no offer is really insulting.

With regards to a payment structure, WBA have come out and said they didn't like it and it was below what they were asking for. Spurs have come out and said it was exactly the same payment plan that WBA had offered for one of our players. Is it that unreasonable to suggest a payment structure that mirrors that of an offer the selling club has offered in buying one of your players? I don't think so.

Levy does know better than to low-ball (countless transfers that have happened) and knows that the selling club can force buying clubs to cough up, and he would know that the whole market knows that he knows. Bale's, Berbatov's, Modric's and Carrick's transfers were hardly a secret. So why, rationally, would he low-ball, antagonise etc.... It doesn't make any sense, when Spurs have missed out on a signing that they wanted to make. Levy does not win by doing these actions, so why believe that he has gone in to low-ball.

With regards to alternatives if it is replacements then they already have them. If it is spending on other areas of the team, they knew we were interested way, way before the transfer deadline day. They could in that time have identified other areas of the team that they want to strengthen. We knew Bale was leaving, yet publicly said he wasn't whilst we got all our business done. Other clubs have done similar. Either WBA are really really naive to think that there were no further bids for Berahino to come in, or they had just missed out on their other targets and don't want Berahino and their fans to think that they have f-ed up in any way. It's not right to say we did not give them enough time to have a think about what they were going to spend the Berahino windfall.

Thank you for engaging in a debate about this. Far more easy to discuss points with someone who is willing to put forward some relevant points.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I don't think that lamela and berahino are comparable. If you are going to consider one a lower risk signing, surely it will be the Englishman, who has played in the Premier League, top scored for his club score d a respectable amount of goals despite playing for a club largely consisting of journeyman rather than the South American from a different league. You would be far more likely to push the boat out for Berahino?

OK I think that is fair. Then we can say Bentley instead of Lamela. I get that there is a perception that signings from the EPL are lower risk, and in some ways they are. However there still is a significant amount of risk. e.g. Torres, Carrol, Keane (from us to Liverpool) all of whom were "proven" in the EPL yet spectacularly did not work out.

I think in any negotiation in life, let alone football, you have to set yourself an upper limit that you are not going to pass. In a negotiation where there is no set price, there is no sense in starting off with that bid as there is no way to go. In a negotiation where there is no set price, it is also naive of the seller to be "upset" with a bid. It just doesn't happen. You respectfully decline and say it is way off your valuation. You do not play it out in the public unless you want attention to be drawn to it. If you want attention drawn to it, what other purpose is it for than either to attract more bids or to tell the whole market "this kid ain't for sale". If you are doing the latter, you don't then follow up the statement with "the payment terms were not acceptable" as that implies that the kid is for sale.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

We had a price, they had a price, their price was a lot higher than ours, so no deal was done. I'm not sure why that means Levy was the one that "was played" "lost a poker game" "tucked it up" "embarrassed us" or whatever other numerous derogatory comments have been made about him?

I really can't see how anyone can come to those conclusion's based on what we know of this negotiation? I mean, someone even posted the WBA statement from earlier and said "there you go that's proof levy screwed this up". As if that's some sort of independent neutral assessment of what went on! Yet the same people were slating Levy and Poch's post window statement saying its just PR, well you can't have it both ways!

Nail on head. It's just double standards all round. As I say, when there is doubt as to what really happens, I feel that Levy deserves the benefit of the doubt on the basis that he has actually overseen a very successful transfer strategy for the club, and has actually proven that he knows how to improve the club.

I know @DubaiSpur agrees with this on the whole but believes that we could have got there quicker by taking a few more risks. Fair enough, but there is no precedent for this, so it is hard to prove one way or another. @Robspur12 has put forward what he thinks Levy could do better as well, and again I respect that, but disagree.

However, for the most part, everyone else that has been critical has completely bought into the fact that Levy has been derogatory in his dealing with WBA i.e. they are believing the old "Oh woah is me" charade that Peace has put out. Why, because it fits into the media impression of Levy.

 

[indianspur]

Not for those who use any stick to beat Levy with.

Levy and Peace are as bad as each other.....neither comes out of this smelling of roses

 

[indianspur]

Pullis saying they had 15 clubs interested in him when they were trying to talk up a sale. Their DoF saying it was us and one other now.

Pulis is mates with H Redknapp isnt he? both like a bit of exaggeration I guess

 

[milo]

Levy and Peace are as bad as each other.....neither comes out of this smelling of roses

Strange because only one of them has been shouting their mouth off and grandstanding

 

[indianspur]

I don't think Levy has a massive ego. He doesn't care what people think of him, he lets others do the talking and is prepared to listen and change his ways i.e. the hiring of redknapp and the removal of DoF even if that was his preferred method of working.

if you dont care what people think of you then you are egotic

your example of when he changed is a bit weak dont you think. 2 points from 8 games ring a bell? I dont think even Levy had a choice but to change his way of operating to save the club from potential disaster.

 

[indianspur]

Strange because only one of them has been shouting their mouth off and grandstanding

Peace is guilty of going public, Levy is guilty of not assessing this transfer correctly and not making the required bids earlier in the window. To leave it till the last hours of the window to make decent bids was simply out of order

 

[Yiddo]

Peace is guilty of going public, Levy is guilty of not assessing this transfer correctly and not making the required bids earlier in the window. To leave it till the last hours of the window to make decent bids was simply out of order

I thought the West Brom chairman said we had been in talks for over 4 months prior? Surely if he had given us an indication of what he wanted we could have sorted a deal. I think he was just trying to be a prick hence why he went public which was very classy :/

 

[Jordinho]

Peace is guilty of going public, Levy is guilty of not assessing this transfer correctly and not making the required bids earlier in the window. To leave it till the last hours of the window to make decent bids was simply out of order

That's assuming there was a price they were willing to sell at. Do you really think they'd have taken £25 million back in July?

 

[indianspur]

missing point mate -> second target .. hence us walking away when the price got too high is more sensible ..

but we didnt walk away.....we made bids for Berahino on the final day of the window, bids of over 20 mill no matter the payment terms. How is that walking away?

 

[Jordinho]

but we didnt walk away.....we made bids for Berahino on the final day of the window, bids of over 20 mill no matter the payment terms. How is that walking away?

Not doing like ManU and throw in another 10 million every time a bid is rejected.

 

[indianspur]

That's assuming there was a price they were willing to sell at. Do you really think they'd have taken £25 million back in July?

not even that early.....i mean at least a week before the end of the window, even if Levy wanted to battle it out with Peace he should have realised he was up against someone as stubborn as him and just brought negotiations to a head at least a week earlier. Really test West Brom's resolve, go in with a offer around the 25 mill mark with decent payment terms and see how West Brom respond. If they had said then, a week before the window ended, that the offer wasnt appropriate then we simply walk away but leave the offer on the table if they chose to change their minds. We would have done our best

 

[billyiddo]

So now you're suggesting we should've walked away from a deal early when (going by his comments) the manager wanted Berahino or no one? - so we'd be in exactly the same position