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Spurs v Stoke - Official match thread

We all know we have to look for the good value deals in the transfer market.

We got a good offer for him in January and accepted it. Along with wages saved it's a substantial amount of money brought into the club.

He was better cover than both Chiriches and Dier, but he was just that - cover! We've all seen how Pochettino gives playing time to young talent over experienced squad options. It's part of what we do and it's part of what I think will take us forward. And it's part of the reason why despite Walker being out injured for the whole first half of the season Naughton only made 5 PL starts (and no sub appearances) for us this season before leaving. Because even before Naughton left Pochettino would start Dier or Chiriches ahead of him, at least at times.

Doing so makes sense long term from a footballing perspective, and from a financial perspective (which ties in with the footballing perspective). It's part of what Pochettino gets praised for.

But the moment the youth policy doesn't provide immediate results.... Despite what we've seen from players like Walker and Rose growing from getting game time. Despite the emergence of Kane. The moment the youth policy doesn't provide immediate results you get reactions like "just making ridiculous excuses for a fudge up"...

It's Pochettino's first fudgeing season in charge and still, absolutely no fudgeing patience even with the youth development side of things. Despite his successes with players like Kane, Rose and Bentaleb people can't wait to blame the club for trusting a young talented player with bags of potential over a solid, but no more, PL squad option. Perhaps those of us that are more positive are at times making excuses, but I'd take that any day over a ridiculous lack of patience.

What you talking about Bruv? Who is this youth RB that I have missed that stepped in for walker because you can't possibly be talking about Dier the Cb, or chirches the um....

So who is it?

Setting aside that non point, patience is indeed a virtue, pity it is not applied consistently.

You have nailed your colours to the mast with Pouch you done so pretty much before he even signed. You rate him, I get it. Me, I'm a little less invested, I see some good things and some bad. The drop off of results and performances towards the end of the season has been in the bad catorgory, it's not a good sign at all. Doesn't mean that I don't see some of the good that his done, or have forgotten about some impressive performances. It just means I'm not sold on the guy yet, and anyone looking at it with a cool head, should think the same.... He is has had an okish 1st season, nothing more.
 
when was the last time we made profit?

We have made a 21 million pound profit in the market over the last five seasons, and have the record largest ever profit by an English club as per our latest accounts -

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/29/premier-league-finances-club-by-club

Did I say Dier was brought in only as RB cover?

Was mentioned somewhere around the time we bought him that in Portugal he was seen as a potential long term solution for the right back slot for the Portuguese national team should he chose to play for Portugal. Being used as a full back early on is pretty standard for a young centre back, and being cover for a full back position is a good way for a young centre back to get game time. This is all pretty standard, I cannot believe this is stuff you're unaware of.

As per usual whenever it comes to something that can be related to Levy you become (imo) rather irrational and our conversations end up going nowhere. Better to just stop it here I suppose, because me trying to explain stuff I feel confident you're aware of is not a good way to get over the post-loss blues.

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/13/tottenham-eric-dier-withdraws-england-under-21s

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/410067/Tottenham-Eric-Dier-centre-back

No. He wanted to be a centre-back. He disliked playing as a full-back. Gareth Southgate agreed with him, and implicitly told Poch to stop using him as a full-back. I cannot believe that he would have agreed to be the long-term Portugal RB when he didn't even want to be the temporary RB for the England Under-21s. He cannot develop if he explicitly decides to train his CB attributes while being pushed out to the RB slot.

He wasn't RB cover. Yedlin, however, was bought as RB cover, with our only real reserve RB sold on the presumption that Yedlin would play. Yedlin has played some eight minutes, and we have suffered as a result of selling our only reserve RB with no one to cover for that spot (given Poch evidently distrusts Yedlin's ability to an extreme degree). This was horrible, horrible transfer strategy. Don't try and paint it as 'youth development', or anything other than a deliberate decision to trade squad strength for a bigger profit that won't be reinvested- this was Levy taking the quick buck and letting the team suffer for it. And while I respect your wish not to discuss this further, I can only point out that it is that behaviour that displays warning signs about our immediate future under our chairman.
 
Also for all the talk of his youth focus etc etc.... Who has he introduced in to the side?

Because it's not bentaleb and its not Kane (who he held off playing for to long in my view), so mason? (I like mason, think he should have been used a little more sparringly.... But that's only my view and I am not there everyday).... but our last manager was a big fan also, in fact if I remembered correctly convinced Ryan to stay. So it's fair to say that mason would have got a crack under him as well.... So who?
 
We have made a 21 million pound profit in the market over the last five seasons, and have the record largest ever profit by an English club as per our latest accounts -

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/29/premier-league-finances-club-by-club



http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/13/tottenham-eric-dier-withdraws-england-under-21s

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/410067/Tottenham-Eric-Dier-centre-back

No. He wanted to be a centre-back. He disliked playing as a full-back. Gareth Southgate agreed with him, and implicitly told Poch to stop using him as a full-back. I cannot believe that he would have agreed to be the long-term Portugal RB when he didn't even want to be the temporary RB for the England Under-21s. He cannot develop if he explicitly decides to train his CB attributes while being pushed out to the RB slot.

He wasn't RB cover. Yedlin, however, was bought as RB cover, with our only real reserve RB sold on the presumption that Yedlin would play. Yedlin has played some eight minutes, and we have suffered as a result of selling our only reserve RB with no one to cover for that spot (given Poch evidently distrusts Yedlin's ability to an extreme degree). This was horrible, horrible transfer strategy. Don't try and paint it as 'youth development', or anything other than a deliberate decision to trade squad strength for a bigger profit that won't be reinvested- this was Levy taking the quick buck and letting the team suffer for it. And while I respect your wish not to discuss this further, I can only point out that it is that behaviour that displays warning signs about our immediate future under our chairman.

I meant overall, not just in the transfer market, we spend as much as we can afford every year, shareholders are not taking dividends and the club isnt banking profit, all the money from player sales is being put back into the club
 
Also for all the talk of his youth focus etc etc.... Who has he introduced in to the side?

Because it's not bentaleb and its not Kane (who he held off playing for to long in my view), so mason? (I like mason, think he should have been used a little more sparringly.... But that's only my view and I am not there everyday).... but our last manager was a big fan also, in fact if I remembered correctly convinced Ryan to stay. So it's fair to say that mason would have got a crack under him as well.... So who?

just because someone else gave them a chance first it doesn't mean he's not giving them a chance now, they are still youth keeping older, more experienced and more expensive players out of the side
 
I meant overall, not just in the transfer market, we spend as much as we can afford every year, shareholders are not taking dividends and the club isnt banking profit, all the money from player sales is being put back into the club

".....two figures leap out. The first is the £80m profit, the largest ever made by an English football club; Spurs say this was effectively the proceeds of selling Gareth Bale to Real Madrid which was then reinvested in new players. Spurs’ TV income was up £32m, they held the wage increase to only £4m, and put £35m in the bank. Such riches rather undermine Spurs’ plea they could not afford£16m agreed for public infrastructure works, which Haringey council waived.

The second remarkable figure is chairman Daniel Levy’s salary - £2.17m – presumably for all of the above."

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/apr/29/premier-league-finances-club-by-club
 
wow we are getting levy on the cheap

you don't think that 35m might be used somewhere else quite soon, I dunno some seats or something, maybe some new turf?

I bet it ain't still sat in the bank now, I wonder how much tax the following years report will show us paying
 
Didn't think we were as bad as some of you are saying...

String of individual mistakes letting us down. Long ball, we're in complete control, but Chadli loses a header with himself and heads through the Stoke player who crosses it to an area where we're in control, but Vertonghen heads it into a danger area where Adam scored. Second goal, more of the same, control of the situation from a rather hopeful lofted ball. Dier can do one of two things, leave it or clear it. Getting a poor touch into Lloris is just bad.

Other end we weren't good enough, but got the ball into good areas, just failed to make it count.

Then of course Chiriches with the red when we looked capable of turning it around... Just terrible.

One of those days... One of those days that come around a lot more often when your back 4 is two centre backs by trade playing as full backs, your 4th choice "already-gone-in-the-summer" centre back and a goalkeeper strangely short on confidence by the looks of things.

Thought the players responded fairly well to going a man down. Most of them put a real shift in, but we also tried to attack and were a bit open at the back.

Lamela and Kane (second half) our best players, Dier and Vlad the worst.

Feel sorry for Pochettino. Can't wait for the summer, we need to do something about this squad.

Mate, I get that you always like to be ultra postive and patient, but a limp 3-0 defeat to Stoke is as bad as gets this season. I seem to remember you said something similar when we drew to Burnley. Point taken, the criticism can go too far, but I think people have a right to expect a little bit more than what we have seen over the past few weeks, it's not an aberration.
 
I meant overall, not just in the transfer market, we spend as much as we can afford every year, shareholders are not taking dividends and the club isnt banking profit, all the money from player sales is being put back into the club

and the club isnt banking profit

Yes, it bloody well is. As evidenced by the above news report.

all the money from player sales is being put back into the club

As evidenced by the 21 million pound profit we have made on transfers over the last five seasons (which puts us rank bottom of the PL net spending table)....it is not being put back into the squad, not by a long shot.

wow we are getting levy on the cheap

you don't think that 35m might be used somewhere else quite soon, I dunno some seats or something, maybe some new turf?

I bet it ain't still sat in the bank now, I wonder how much tax the following years report will show us paying

We'll wait and see, won't we? Might even see some money head up the chain to ENIC holdings - anything to avoid having to actually back the sad sack manager you throw into the hotseat.
 
Yes, it bloody well is. As evidenced by the above news report.



As evidenced by the 21 million pound profit we have made on transfers over the last five seasons (which puts us rank bottom of the PL net spending table)....it is not being put back into the squad, not by a long shot.

No, it's gone into buying up land and building training facilities.
 
No, it's gone into buying up land and building training facilities.

Maybe, and if you stick to that position, good on you. Just don't peddle the gross myth that the money earned from player sales is being put back into the squad, or that we make any effort to 'back' our managers any more.
 
Maybe, and if you stick to that position, good on you. Just don't peddle the gross myth that the money earned from player sales is being put back into the squad, or that we make any effort to 'back' our managers any more.

I didn't say that (just clarifying) I definitely meant club, not squad

we are taking the pain of the build, unless you are owned by a oligarch that's what you have to do
 
I didn't say that (just clarifying) I definitely meant club, not squad

we are taking the pain of the build, unless you are owned by a oligarch that's what you have to do

You said we don't bank profits. I showed you the report which says we do. You said we spend as much as we can afford in the market every year. I showed you the figures that say that it is not the case - we earn considerably more than we spend.

Yes, we are taking the pain of the 'build'. I just wish Levy would stop lying about it. 'Transfer funds won't be affected by the development of the stadium': b*llocks, to the point where Levy happily weakens the squad by selling Naughton and bringing in the unplayable Yedlin just to make a quick buck. 'We have on-pitch ambitions commensurate with our history' - no we absolutely don't, and woe betide the poor manager (mainly AVB who complained about exactly that) who falls for that spiel in the interview. And all these reports by apparently clued-in people like Hynter about the club 'backing' the manager - pure, unadulterated donkey b*llocks, the manager is a bloody sock puppet you use and dispose of when the short-sighted fans start pinpointing the blame for poor performances on him instead of on the chairman who ensured that the team was weak enough to put in such performances. And throwing in stupidly condescending 10 million pound bids for players the manager desperately wants (a la Schneiderlin) and then sprinting away happily when Southampton turn you down flat is just low.

ENIC want to build a stadium with as little financial input as possible from their side, take the ginormous profits from selling the club after the stadium is built and happily f*ck off afterward. That's it, and I'm reconciled to that: take your profit built on the club's own money and the ludicrous ticket prices you charge, and f*ck right off. But don't pretend to have 'ambitions' while doing so: our ambition is to hover anywhere above the relegation zone until the stadium is built, selling any good players we have to raise some cash, relying mainly on youth players and the odd Stambouli type bargain bin signing, and f*ck the fans, f*ck the manager, f*ck the self-serving 'Audere Est Facere' boards you put up around the stadium and f*ck ambitions of achieving something greater than that: even when we get close to achieving something good, ENIC would rather die than put in some of their own effort to get over the line (See: 2011-2012). Don't lie about that.

And yes, it would have been very different if we were owned by an oligarch. Yet people willingly seem to hate the idea, as if putting yourself through the Byzantine torture of paying huge ticket prices and living within your means so your owners can make huge profits without putting in any real investment of their own is a virtuous, noble thing. If the club were owned by the fans, then living within our means would be absolutely crucial, and would then also have a justifiable air of self-righteousness - but clubs are now just playthings for wealthy people, sadly, and so the idea that people would willfully put Tottenham Hotspur at a disadvantage to the clubs that are owned by owners invested in their success just so ENIC can make their profit is just ludicrous to me.
 
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ENIC want to build a stadium with as little financial input as possible from their side, take the ginormous profits from selling the club after the stadium is built and happily f*ck off afterward.
a) Where did you get that idea? B) Why do you think the new stadium will automatically generate huge profits on disposal if a potential new owner is bound by a naming agreement, with whoever swops a big investment for the naming rights? I don't get why Spurs suddenly becomes more attractive to a buyer because we have a shiny new stadium?
You sound a little like Harry Hotspur in disguise....
 
ENIC want to build a stadium with as little financial input as possible from their side, take the ginormous profits from selling the club after the stadium is built and happily f*ck off afterward.
a) Where did you get that idea? B) Why do you think the new stadium will automatically generate huge profits on disposal if a potential new owner is bound by a naming agreement, with whoever swops a big investment for the naming rights? I don't get why Spurs suddenly becomes more attractive to a buyer because we have a shiny new stadium?
You sound a little like Harry Hotspur in disguise....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...in-official-bidding-period-with-Cain-Hoy.html

Joe Lewis paid 22 million pounds for Tottenham Hotspur Football Club in 2001. He apparently wants one billion pounds for it now, which is with a 36,000 capacity stadium in a largely neglected area. Do you imagine that he will want less after the stadium is built? Conversely, there is already interest in buying the club at the moment, if that report and a bunch of others are to be believed. Do you imagine that interest will lessen with a shiny 56-60,000 seater stadium, with the loans for said stadium secured by the club's own assets and naming rights already in place to ensure a steady income inflow?

Edit: And no, I'm not Harry Hotspur. I don't even frequent his site, since his one-man crusade in support of Archway stuck me up the wrong way despite my general dislike of ENIC. :p
 
You said we don't bank profits. I showed you the report which says we do. You said we spend as much as we can afford in the market every year. I showed you the figures that say that it is not the case - we earn considerably more than we spend.

Yes, we are taking the pain of the 'build'. I just wish Levy would stop lying about it. 'Transfer funds won't be affected by the development of the stadium': b*llocks, to the point where Levy happily weakens the squad by selling Naughton and bringing in the unplayable Yedlin just to make a quick buck. 'We have on-pitch ambitions commensurate with our history' - no we absolutely don't, and woe betide the poor manager (mainly AVB who complained about exactly that) who falls for that spiel in the interview. And all these reports by apparently clued-in people like Hynter about the club 'backing' the manager - pure, unadulterated donkey b*llocks, the manager is a bloody sock puppet you use and dispose of when the short-sighted fans start pinpointing the blame for poor performances on him instead of on the chairman who ensured that the team was weak enough to put in such performances. And throwing in stupidly condescending 10 million pound bids for players the manager desperately wants (a la Schneiderlin) and then sprinting away happily when Southampton turn you down flat is just low.

ENIC want to build a stadium with as little financial input as possible from their side, take the ginormous profits from selling the club after the stadium is built and happily f*ck off afterward. That's it, and I'm reconciled to that: take your profit built on the club's own money and the ludicrous ticket prices you charge, and f*ck right off. But don't pretend to have 'ambitions' while doing so: our ambition is to hover anywhere above the relegation zone until the stadium is built, selling any good players we have to raise some cash, relying mainly on youth players and the odd Stambouli type bargain bin signing, and f*ck the fans, f*ck the manager, f*ck the self-serving 'Audere Est Facere' boards you put up around the stadium and f*ck ambitions of achieving something greater than that: even when we get close to achieving something good, ENIC would rather die than put in some of their own effort to get over the line (See: 2011-2012). Don't lie about that.

And yes, it would have been very different if we were owned by an oligarch. Yet people willingly seem to hate the idea, as if putting yourself through the Byzantine torture of paying huge ticket prices and living within your means so your owners can make huge profits without putting in any real investment of their own is a virtuous, noble thing. If the club were owned by the fans, then living within our means would be absolutely crucial, and would then also have a justifiable air of self-righteousness - but clubs are now just playthings for wealthy people, sadly, and so the idea that people would willfully put Tottenham Hotspur at a disadvantage to the clubs that are owned by owners invested in their success just so ENIC can make their profit is just ludicrous to me.

as much as we can afford I said, not as much as is available, I could go and blow my bank balance on booze and hookers right now but then I wouldn't be able to make the rent next week
 
and...

what else do you expect from ENIC, they are a business who buy others and sell them for a profit

to make that profit they need the business to be succesful, our interests are parallel
 
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