Tottenham Hotspur v Sheffield Utd League cup semi Final first leg

[Robspur12]

Im not denying that yet again, we played woeful under Poch, yet again he made some shockingly bad management decisions, and yet again he showed his inability to have a clue how to break down and beat a lesser team. Are you denying it ?

Mate you really need to get some perspective. Not sure if you are advocating getting rid of Poch. Now I know you were a big fan of Harry, but I recall some really shocking games under him, I was at the embarrassing loss to Norwich at home for example where Bale, Modric and Vdv as well as Ade all played and we were "torn a new one" by Grant Holt. I was also at the FA cup game where we lost 4-0 to Fulham. It appears to me that many posters have "airbrushed" the Harry years such that every game was masterclass of brilliant attacking football. I said at the time of the Chel53a game we will be inconsistent for the foreseeable future. We are playing a lot of games and having to rotate the squad. I was at the game today. Not pretty I admit but utd I don't think mustered a single shot on target. They put 11 men behind the ball with the sole purpose of today's game was not to concede too many goals. We had players who were clearly jaded to day Eriksen and Kane among the biggest culprits. But come on this is Spurs when do we ever do anything easy?

 

[Mumorn]

Amen brother for the post count!

:ross:

Cheers, nice to know you care

 

[sc25]

Serious question. How much did we pay for Davies?

Well, I've recently been advised that 'the money is irrelevent' when discussing a player. And like I said, even after a horrific showing tonight, his thread is still down on page 10 somewhere. Be that as it may...

His fee was undisclosed when he signed. At the time I saw a few reports citing 11 mil. That said, it would seem he has made a move in recent months and has drifted in to sevens in here a week or two ago. Hope he doesn't touch fives else I may have to uh make a punt.

 

[mudshark]

I'd feared a no-show tonight, and although we didn't get that by any means, it was rather the same old story in another sense in that we huffed and puffed, but had no cutting edge at all. Rather fortunate their hapless defender panicked and gave away the penalty, or we'd have a even steeper Yorkshire hill to climb next week.

 

[Robspur12]

Well, I've recently been advised that 'the money is irrelevent' when discussing a player. And like I said, even after a horrific showing tonight, his thread is still down on page 10 somewhere. Be that as it may...

His fee was undisclosed when he signed. At the time I saw a few reports citing 11 mil. That said, he has made a move in recent months it seems and I saw sevens in here a week or two ago. Hope he doesn't hit fives else I may have to uh speak up.

He made mistakes tonight but I thought he also, at other times defended well. Certainly not worthy of the slating he is getting. Only my opinion of course.

 

[metalgear]

i thought that campbell-ryce did really well and looked like premiership quality!

 

[Spurs7891]

Really disappointed we didn't make the most of our home advantage. With this slim win, it is going to be very difficult in the 2nd leg as we have struggled badly in away Cup matches this season. Pochettino has to take large part of the blame. Was really annoyed with our team selection. Thought it was a disgrace not to play our best team in a Cup semi final. There is no logic in starting Adebayor as he has hardly played this season. Soldado should have started as he had done well in the Cups this season. There was also no reason to rest Lloris. Vorm kept the clean sheet but still it was too risky. Pochettino should have played our best team here and rested them in the FA Cup match against Leicester instead. Really not sure what Pochettino was trying to prove.

Not surprising that Adebayor didn't do anything of note and wasted the only chance he got. And our only goal was scored due to the introduction of Soldado who forced the Sheff Utd player into conceding the penalty. Maybe if Soldado had started, he could have created 1 or 2 more goals for us as he did against Burnely. Credit to Townsend for scoring the penalty under pressure. Really thought he would miss it. But I am still not convinced Townsend should be our regular penalty taker though. Adebayor must be bad influence to the team as Kane has been poor since Adebayor came back. Disappointingly Kane looked clumsy all game.

Pochettino should have started Dembele instead of Mason in midfield. Our midfield looked much better with Dembele and Stambouli together in recent matches. I think Mason still needs to get more experience before he can play in important matches like this. Wish Lennon and Lamela were available, especially Lamela. With Eriksen having a poor game and Chadli not available, we were unable to create many chances.

Didn't like Vorm starting in goal and Dier in defence but atleast we managed to stop Sheff Utd from scoring. It could be a important factor in the away leg. Sheff Utd were toothless in attack but were worried our defence might gift them the crucial away goal. Thought it was risky to play the inexperienced Dier in defence but he did fairly well. But we should start Lloris in the away match as we need a leader like him in defence.

Wish we had got a comfortable win. It is going to be very tensed up in the 2nd leg match now. Pochettino should learn a thing or two from this match. We should take Sheff Utd more seriously in the away match.

 

[Didn'tMindGraham]

Really disappointed we didn't make the most of our home advantage. With this slim win, it is going to be very difficult in the 2nd leg as we have struggled badly in away Cup matches this season. Pochettino has to take large part of the blame. Was really annoyed with our team selection. Thought it was a disgrace not to play our best team in a Cup semi final. There is no logic in starting Adebayor as he has hardly played this season. Soldado should have started as he had done well in the Cups this season. There was also no reason to rest Lloris. Vorm kept the clean sheet but still it was too risky. Pochettino should have played our best team here and rested them in the FA Cup match against Leicester instead. Really not sure what Pochettino was trying to prove.

Not surprising that Adebayor didn't do anything of note and wasted the only chance he got. And our only goal was scored due to the introduction of Soldado who forced the Sheff Utd player into conceding the penalty. Maybe if Soldado had started, he could have created 1 or 2 more goals for us as he did against Burnely. Credit to Townsend for scoring the penalty under pressure. Really thought he would miss it. But I am still not convinced Townsend should be our regular penalty taker though. Adebayor must be bad influence to the team as Kane has been poor since Adebayor came back. Disappointingly Kane looked clumsy all game.

Pochettino should have started Dembele instead of Mason in midfield. Our midfield looked much better with Dembele and Stambouli together in recent matches. I think Mason still needs to get more experience before he can play in important matches like this. Wish Lennon and Lamela were available, especially Lamela. With Eriksen having a poor game and Chadli not available, we were unable to create many chances.

Didn't like Vorm starting in goal and Dier in defence but atleast we managed to stop Sheff Utd from scoring. It could be a important factor in the away leg. Sheff Utd were toothless in attack but were worried our defence might gift them the crucial away goal. Thought it was risky to play the inexperienced Dier in defence but he did fairly well. But we should start Lloris in the away match as we need a leader like him in defence.

Wish we had got a comfortable win. It is going to be very tensed up in the 2nd leg match now. Pochettino should learn a thing or two from this match. We should take Sheff Utd more seriously in the away match.

I really don't get this at all. We've lost 1 out of 5 away matches in cups, and in the league our away form has been excellent. I'm not best pleased with a one goal lead but if we dont think that is enough to take to a league one ground then we've got bigger problems than squad selection.

As for the side he picked tonight, I really don't get your beef. That was one or two players short of our best Xi. Vorm is a more than capable deputy, Dier is much more reliable than Kaboul, and Mason and Davies have no obvious superiors, at least in MPs opinion. Your faith in Soldado is utterly without foundation- there is more chance of reigniting an inconsistent Adebayor than Soldado finally becoming a force in a country he has struggled in for 18 months.

I agree with you the second leg will be tough, and would be far easier with a less-slender lead, but don't think MP can be accused of taking it lightly at all.

 

[glasgowspur]

We take more risks on the edge of our box than we do on the opponents.
Said before but Eriksen and Ade doesn't work- bad juju?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Jurgen the German]

We take more risks on the edge of our box than we do on the opponents.
Said before but Eriksen and Ade doesn't work- bad juju?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

This. I don't know if you can coach this out of defenders but we have to try. Stambouli was at it in the 2nd half last night too.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Such a shame to see the same old negativity trotted out...'not good enough'...'should be opening up'...'failing to get it done'...'things aren't right'...no context, no consideration, no scope, no overall perspective.

Still, whatever makes people 'happy' I suppose.

Thats not fair Steff. I was unhappy with the performance yesterday, not the result. I was disappointed by the technical aspects of our performances and shocked to see us at times struggling to do the basics. First touch from at least half the team was woeful, we were trying little flicks to no-one on the edge of the box, we were taking 13 touches where 3 should've been sufficient. Its these aspects that frustrated, not the scoreline.

When we sometimes struggle to break down camped in opponents we often gracefully move the ball up the pitch and then probe, with control, just outside our opponents penalty area. Last night that wasn't the case: we were struggling to be on the ball in their half, especially in the first 45.

I'm delighted with how Poch is doing. We are playing well above what I expected and are fighting on four fronhts whilst rotating despite the fact key men are injured/unavailable. However, to comment on performances in isolation is a legitimate exercise - we don't have to contextualise every single facet of tottenham Hotspur do we? The context that I'm placing last nights match in was a home tie against Sheffield United - my comments during the match thread were based on this context.

I wasn't moaning because it makes me happy, I was genuinely shocked and a little disappointed at some of the technical aspects of our game last night. I have no problems with the result and can see us going to Sheffield and killing the tie early. But that doesn't make critique of individual matches invalid.

 

[thfcsteff]

I would mostly concurr. However, I would add that some of those handicaps (and in some cases most of them) have applied to some of our previous managers...and it didn't stop them being criticized. Good post, though.

I'd agree with you, I think the critical difference would be the personalities involved. Poch is quiet, smart and savvy enough to do it all behind closed doors - the old 'translator' trick he uses sometimes, or 'slow-English' is masterful! But you are right, others have had similar issues. Hopefully Poch will continue sorting them.

 

[NWND]

This. I don't know if you can coach this out of defenders but we have to try. Stambouli was at it in the 2nd half last night too.

The best teams take risk on the edge of their own box and are careful on the edge of their opponents. If you don't take risks on the edge of your own box, what do you do? Just clear the ball so the opposition can launch more attacks? Calculated risks outside your own box, can lead to devastating counter-attacks. Taking risks on the edge of your opponents box on the other hand will more often than not, not lead to anything. Lamela routinely takes risks on the edge of the opponent's penalty area, and gets canned for it on here.

Eriksen and Kane on the other hand don't take risks. Their long-range shots aren't speculative punts, as they routinely score them. They shoot when they're set, they can see the keeper and defenders have left a gap and they're confident of scoring.

 

[thfcsteff]

I don't see it as 'dark'.

I also don't see how it's a bridge too far to say we never look like the better team. I fully accept we have lost players, but we still have enough quality relatively speaking to be at least looking better than we are at the moment.

My biggest worries are that we don't create chances, we rely on Kane or Eriksen to score with a speculative strike from outside the box, defensively we take too many risks as look too vulnerable and there doesn't seem to be a plan of how to attack, especially against the lower teams.

Again, I accept Poch needs A LOT of new players, but I still think we should be seeing better than what is on display at the moment.

EDIT: Just seen your post. Agreed on winning mentality and ability to win late.

Don't agree about him making us more solid, we still look shaky at the back.

We've not been that hurt by injuries compared to Liverpool or Arsenal for example.

Oh, and every Spurs manager in the last 10 years has had to deal with not getting their first choices in transfer windows to be fair.

A fair response mate, and I agree with some of what you've said for sure. The last line is certainly accurate (sadly)...

 

[lynneb]

That shot from Scougall, had it gone in would have given me a minuscule amount of pride. He is a former pupil where I work. He had a decent game.

 

[thfcsteff]

Thats not fair Steff. I was unhappy with the performance yesterday, not the result. I was disappointed by the technical aspects of our performances and shocked to see us at times struggling to do the basics. First touch from at least half the team was woeful, we were trying little flicks to no-one on the edge of the box, we were taking 13 touches where 3 should've been sufficient. Its these aspects that frustrated, not the scoreline.

When we sometimes struggle to break down camped in opponents we often gracefully move the ball up the pitch and then probe, with control, just outside our opponents penalty area. Last night that wasn't the case: we were struggling to be on the ball in their half, especially in the first 45.

I'm delighted with how Poch is doing. We are playing well above what I expected and are fighting on four fronhts whilst rotating despite the fact key men are injured/unavailable. However, to comment on performances in isolation is a legitimate exercise - we don't have to contextualise every single facet of tottenham Hotspur do we? The context that I'm placing last nights match in was a home tie against Sheffield United - my comments during the match thread were based on this context.

I wasn't moaning because it makes me happy, I was genuinely shocked and a little disappointed at some of the technical aspects of our game last night. I have no problems with the result and can see us going to Sheffield and killing the tie early. But that doesn't make critique of individual matches invalid.

Fair enough mate, apologies. I do think you have to make note of who played and who was available. Speed in the CM slots and wide is essential, and with Davies at left back we did not have pace from the full- backs either. It has been slow moving since Bentaleb went to ACN.

 

[Jurgen the German]

The best teams take risk on the edge of their own box and are careful on the edge of their opponents. If you don't take risks on the edge of your own box, what do you do? Just clear the ball so the opposition can launch more attacks? Calculated risks outside your own box, can lead to devastating counter-attacks. Taking risks on the edge of your opponents box on the other hand will more often than not, not lead to anything. Lamela routinely takes risks on the edge of the opponent's penalty area, and gets canned for it on here.

Eriksen and Kane on the other hand don't take risks. Their long-range shots aren't speculative punts, as they routinely score them. They shoot when they're set, they can see the keeper and defenders have left a gap and they're confident of scoring.

But you have to be sensible sometimes, nothing wrong with clearing the lines rather than putting another defender in trouble. I don't agree that the best teams take risks. They may try to pass their way out of trouble more often than not as opposed to hoofing it, but that's different to taking risks. I don't see Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, Scum etc taking the same risks as we do and making the same mistakes.

EDIT: Ok perhaps scum, but not the other top teams.

 

[Legohamster]

Such a shame to see the same old negativity trotted out...'not good enough'...'should be opening up'...'failing to get it done'...'things aren't right'...no context, no consideration, no scope, no overall perspective.

Still, whatever makes people 'happy' I suppose.

It wasn't good enough, we struggled to create chances despite having all the ball and showed again that we still struggle to break down sides that park the bus and got a goal from the only decent bit of play.


Happy with the result, not happy with the performance.


We really need Levy to get in a forward/creative player to help Christian and Harry or we will collapse

 

[Robspur12]

But you have to be sensible sometimes, nothing wrong with clearing the lines rather than putting another defender in trouble. I don't agree that the best teams take risks. They may try to pass their way out of trouble more often than not as opposed to hoofing it, but that's different to taking risks. I don't see Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, Scum etc taking the same risks as we do and making the same mistakes.

EDIT: Ok perhaps scum, but not the other top teams.

Not true. Barca did it under Pep as a tactic to draw the other team in so that it created space behind them to pass into.

 

[scaramanga]

Thats not fair Steff. I was unhappy with the performance yesterday, not the result. I was disappointed by the technical aspects of our performances and shocked to see us at times struggling to do the basics. First touch from at least half the team was woeful, we were trying little flicks to no-one on the edge of the box, we were taking 13 touches where 3 should've been sufficient. Its these aspects that frustrated, not the scoreline.

When we sometimes struggle to break down camped in opponents we often gracefully move the ball up the pitch and then probe, with control, just outside our opponents penalty area. Last night that wasn't the case: we were struggling to be on the ball in their half, especially in the first 45.

I'm delighted with how Poch is doing. We are playing well above what I expected and are fighting on four fronhts whilst rotating despite the fact key men are injured/unavailable. However, to comment on performances in isolation is a legitimate exercise - we don't have to contextualise every single facet of tottenham Hotspur do we? The context that I'm placing last nights match in was a home tie against Sheffield United - my comments during the match thread were based on this context.

I wasn't moaning because it makes me happy, I was genuinely shocked and a little disappointed at some of the technical aspects of our game last night. I have no problems with the result and can see us going to Sheffield and killing the tie early. But that doesn't make critique of individual matches invalid.

Agree with this fully.

It seems to have been entirely missed that it's possible to be happy with the win but critical of both the performance and the scoreline which, if we had played anywhere near our ability, would have been much better.