Ex-managers: I'm pining for the past and cannot move on

[Jordinho]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

I should not really talk for others but I do not think Poch is getting much stick at the moment and rightly so. He is doing his best and as Klinsmann says if given time would probably turn out ok. The problem is not with Poch it is whether we have gone backwards.

Scara says that we have to go back to go forwards or be prepared for little progress, he gives the example of F1 I do not follow that sport. But similar happens in cycling where teams will have a 3 year plan to get a grand tour winner. I am not against it, but I thought the whole point of a director of football was that when you changed managers the did not have to be a big change in players because the new manager would fit the players the director of football brought.

First we need to establish our way of playing and let the DoF stay in his job for more than a couple years.

 

[Craig_J]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

This really isn't related to any of the posts in this thread but seeing as this seems to be us reminiscing about the recent past I'd like to say how much I miss the Martin Jol days. Going from mid table to all of a sudden challenging for a top four finish was fantastic. There wasn't really any pressure on us back then as we only ever expected to finish top of the bottom half at best anyways, the football was entertaining, the atmosphere at games was brilliant. We had Davids in midfield, Jol fighting Wenger, Robbie Keane scoring goals for fun (and Mido at one point!) and later we had Berbatov come to the club oozing class left right and center.

 

[mudshark]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

I wholeheartedly agree; Jol was the best manager we've had here since Burkinshaw for me. A real and unqualified connection with the fans. The club felt joined up. We've lost virtually all of that since, even in spite of the relative success of the Redknapp era.

 

[scaramanga]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

This really isn't related to any of the posts in this thread but seeing as this seems to be us reminiscing about the recent past I'd like to say how much I miss the Martin Jol days. Going from mid table to all of a sudden challenging for a top four finish was fantastic. There wasn't really any pressure on us back then as we only ever expected to finish top of the bottom half at best anyways, the football was entertaining, the atmosphere at games was brilliant. We had Davids in midfield, Jol fighting Wenger, Robbie Keane scoring goals for fun (and Mido at one point!) and later we had Berbatov come to the club oozing class left right and center.

I wholeheartedly agree; Jol was the best manager we've had here since Burkinshaw for me. A real and unqualified connection with the fans. The club felt joined up. We've lost virtually all of that since, even in spite of the relative success of the Redknapp era.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[NWND]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

This really isn't related to any of the posts in this thread but seeing as this seems to be us reminiscing about the recent past I'd like to say how much I miss the Martin Jol days. Going from mid table to all of a sudden challenging for a top four finish was fantastic. There wasn't really any pressure on us back then as we only ever expected to finish top of the bottom half at best anyways, the football was entertaining, the atmosphere at games was brilliant. We had Davids in midfield, Jol fighting Wenger, Robbie Keane scoring goals for fun (and Mido at one point!) and later we had Berbatov come to the club oozing class left right and center.

Wish Berbs would have played with Carrick

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Wish Berbs would have played with Carrick

Berbatov, Carrick, Modric, King, VdV, Bale in the same team?

 

[NWND]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Under Martin Jol, I watched us demolish the typically solid Moyes Everton 5-2 at WHL with this team:

........................Robinson

Pamarot......Naybet........King.........Edman

Marney.......Carrick.......Mendes......Ziegler

.................Keane.......Kanoute

On paper, in some areas doesn't even look as strong as the current squad, but it had two quality ball-players in midfield, two dangerous and intelligent forwards and in Naybet and King a rock-solid and commanding defence.

 

[NWND]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Those were back in the days when there were no excuses about the White Hart Lane pitch, we played with more than one forward and our defence didn't resemble the bar scene out of Gremlins

 

[NWND]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Berbatov, Carrick, Modric, King, VdV, Bale in the same team?

I think i just squealed like a girl

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Under Martin Jol, I watched us demolish the typically solid Moyes Everton 5-2 at WHL with this team:

........................Robinson

Pamarot......Naybet........King.........Edman

Marney.......Carrick.......Mendes......Ziegler

.................Keane.......Kanoute

On paper, in some areas doesn't even look as strong as the current squad, but it had two quality ball-players in midfield, two dangerous and intelligent forwards and in Naybet and King a rock-solid and commanding defence.

Yep, I was at that game too. Had a season ticket throughout the Jol years. Look at that, two capable passers in midfield. We'd kill for that now. Kanoute was almost as elegant as Berba when he was on form.

Naybet was a brilliant signing; similarly I think people underrate the contribution of William Gallas to HR's team. If only we had somewhere with that pedigree and wealth of experience now.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

not a surprise really, that team has 9 very solid pl players and 2 wingers with youthful exuberance and pace

that 11 would absolutely smash the current one

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Yeah thats true about the pitch! No-one used to worry about it when we were tearing teams apart with pace and width. We never ever used to have as many difficulties getting at teams (even when we were ****) as we do now.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

not a surprise really, that team has 9 very solid pl players and 2 wingers with youthful exuberance and pace

that 11 would absolutely smash the current one

The difference in quality in the Jol central midfield compared to now is quite astonishing. Mason (despite his promise) and Capoue (absolute dogshhit) is a pairing that will take you south and fast.

 

[Daisuk]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

not a surprise really, that team has 9 very solid pl players and 2 wingers with youthful exuberance and pace

that 11 would absolutely smash the current one

Yeah, the fullback duo of super-Pamarot and 9-1-Edman could contain any wingers in the current PL for sure. :lol: Apart from those two, I tend to agree though.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

other pl clubs is a different argument, they'd have no bother with our players though, I'm struggling to think of a player we have now who wouldn't just bounce off of pamerots thighs

 

[Spurs7891]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

Under Martin Jol, I watched us demolish the typically solid Moyes Everton 5-2 at WHL with this team:

........................Robinson

Pamarot......Naybet........King.........Edman

Marney.......Carrick.......Mendes......Ziegler

.................Keane.......Kanoute

On paper, in some areas doesn't even look as strong as the current squad, but it had two quality ball-players in midfield, two dangerous and intelligent forwards and in Naybet and King a rock-solid and commanding defence.

IMO, the key players in that team was King and Carrick. They made the team stable in defence and midfield. We went backwards when we sold Carrick but were fortunate to buy his replacement Modric.

People talk about the "success" under Redknapp but it was largely due to Modric. Redknapp were so lucky as his team were build around playmaker Modric who was bought under Ramos. AVB was very unlucky as Modric left just as he took over and we couldn't find a replacement. I think AVB would have done wonders if he had Modric. I always feel we under performed under Redknapp. You have to question why we never achieved anything in 2010-11 season when we had a midfield of Modric, VDV, Lennon and Bale.

 

[Daisuk]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

other pl clubs is a different argument, they'd have no bother with our players though, I'm struggling to think of a player we have now who wouldn't just bounce off of pamerots thighs

Hah, yeah, you're right, I read your argument wrong. He'd eat our players for breakfast the way we're playing now.

 

[DHSF]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

The 3 years bit is in reference to when Redknapp left and how you have seen everything that has come since as the same thing, isn't it?

If we're talking infastructure the DoF has only been in place just over a year - not two and a half seasons...

Well because three years is ample time to see any progression given that one of the reasons for sacking the last successful manager was for longevity and future success.

At present we have a DoF who spunked a ****load of money up against the wall... continuity? My **** as in reality those players he bought will have to be moved on... I thought one of the key factors and advantages of a DoF was to do with the continuity of players?

Three years is ample time as far as I'm concerned to be able to see more than a bunch of ****e players in a disjointed squad playing like complete strangers. As for the infrastructure... Not sure what the DoF has done to instigate anything like a scouting network etc.

 

[billyiddo]

So, the big elephant in the room...

Well because three years is ample time to see any progression given that one of the reasons for sacking the last successful manager was for longevity and future success.

At present we have a DoF who spunked a ****load of money up against the wall... continuity? My **** as in reality those players he bought will have to be moved on... I thought one of the key factors and advantages of a DoF was to do with the continuity of players?

Three years is ample time as far as I'm concerned to be able to see more than a bunch of ****e players in a disjointed squad playing like complete strangers. As for the infrastructure... Not sure what the DoF has done to instigate anything like a scouting network etc.

Im sorry but you're ignoring the fact there has been two managers, 3 if you include Sherwood in the year and a bit Baldini has been involved with transfers - you talk as though we've been doing the same thing since Redknapp left but we haven't - there has been no continuity or infastructure in place for that time

 

[NWND]

Re: So, the big elephant in the room...

IMO, the key players in that team was King and Carrick. They made the team stable in defence and midfield. We went backwards when we sold Carrick but were fortunate to buy his replacement Modric.

People talk about the "success" under Redknapp but it was largely due to Modric. Redknapp were so lucky as his team were build around playmaker Modric who was bought under Ramos. AVB was very unlucky as Modric left just as he took over and we couldn't find a replacement. I think AVB would have done wonders if he had Modric. I always feel we under performed under Redknapp. You have to question why we never achieved anything in 2010-11 season when we had a midfield of Modric, VDV, Lennon and Bale.

I actually feel Redknapp was over-reliant on just sticking his stars on the pitch and letting them do their thing. We had good squad players, not on the same quality as the first XI, but still good enough to be starters for most PL clubs. Players like Pienaar, Kranjcar. They didn't get used often enough in the context of giving the first XI boys a rest against someone pants at home in the way Fergie got down to an art-form.