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Roberto Soldado
- Thread starter Boonie
- Start date
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
This "movement" notion, especially when applied to the Arsenal game, is a myth.
I was watching him very closely and he doesn't move any better than Defoe or Adebayor. He wasn't doing anything.
I'm still a bit staggered we spent so much money on someone so limited. His finishing may well be exceptional, I don't honestly know, but if that's all he has to offer, which seems to be the case, the team has to be so tailored around him, and every pass so precise, it's a massively risky transfer.
Poyet recently said this sort of one dimensional limitation is exactly why Darren Bent falls out of favour with managers - you have to play in such a defined way.
This isn't to say he won't succeed, but you do have to wonder why no one has looked at him before, and why these sort of strikers have gone out of the game.
This "movement" notion, especially when applied to the Arsenal game, is a myth.
I was watching him very closely and he doesn't move any better than Defoe or Adebayor. He wasn't doing anything.
I'm still a bit staggered we spent so much money on someone so limited. His finishing may well be exceptional, I don't honestly know, but if that's all he has to offer, which seems to be the case, the team has to be so tailored around him, and every pass so precise, it's a massively risky transfer.
Poyet recently said this sort of one dimensional limitation is exactly why Darren Bent falls out of favour with managers - you have to play in such a defined way.
This isn't to say he won't succeed, but you do have to wonder why no one has looked at him before, and why these sort of strikers have gone out of the game.
SteveAWOL
Colin Calderwood
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
Agreed. Have to hope that Eriksen, Lamela and Holtby are the keys to getting Soldado involved with their clever through ball passes, as from 3 Premier League games so far Roberto's only actually tested a goalie once from open play which was that toe poke from Lennon' cross against Palace. Neither he nor Defoe are big and strong enough to bully a defence and win aerial duels as Ade is capable of doing on those rare occasions when he is in the mood, such as that MotM performance at Chavski back in May.
Agreed. Have to hope that Eriksen, Lamela and Holtby are the keys to getting Soldado involved with their clever through ball passes, as from 3 Premier League games so far Roberto's only actually tested a goalie once from open play which was that toe poke from Lennon' cross against Palace. Neither he nor Defoe are big and strong enough to bully a defence and win aerial duels as Ade is capable of doing on those rare occasions when he is in the mood, such as that MotM performance at Chavski back in May.
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
Valencia always play open attractive football that creates chances for their forwards. We have to do the same to get the best out of Soldado. I just hope AVB stumbles across the right players and formation that can supply Soldado.
Valencia always play open attractive football that creates chances for their forwards. We have to do the same to get the best out of Soldado. I just hope AVB stumbles across the right players and formation that can supply Soldado.
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
You can't see his movement off the ball on TV.
You can't see his movement off the ball on TV.
Denmark Spur
Edgar Davids
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
Has scored for Spain tonight against Chile
Has scored for Spain tonight against Chile
Fast Fingers Fred
Hossam Ghaly
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
GlennGoddle
Andy Sinton
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
That goalkeeping is horrendous
That goalkeeping is horrendous
metalgear
Nayim
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
there was good connection, and its much faster than what that gif shows!
there was good connection, and its much faster than what that gif shows!
the fox in the box
Øyvind Leonhardsen
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
3 league games and he is already being critised?????
now we have Lemela and Erikson this address our attacking issue...
GIVE IT TIME
some of you beggar belief!
3 league games and he is already being critised?????
now we have Lemela and Erikson this address our attacking issue...
GIVE IT TIME
some of you beggar belief!
GlennGoddle
Andy Sinton
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
Yeah i get that but he's flapped it into his own net.
Will keep Soldado's confidence up so who gives a fark.
Yeah i get that but he's flapped it into his own net.
Will keep Soldado's confidence up so who gives a fark.
ringo
Tim Sherwood
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
Soldado will score plenty, and if combined with another attacking minded player that can come deeper and do the creative stuff, is exactly what we need. Even from the little I've seen of him so far it is clear that he is quick, precise and confident on the ball in build up play. And, most importantly, in the box he knows how to direct the ball towards goal without too many touches, and knows where to be in the box.
Defoe always does the "knock the ball to the side, lash it at the goal" thing. It works well at a distance. Close up though, he does the same thing, hardly ever picks a spot, or looks first, and frequently smacks it straight at the keeper/defender.
The alternative would have been to buy a Drogba clone. But there aren't too many of those.. Lukaku, Benteke etc, and they are highly sought after in a very competitive market.
Soldado will score plenty, and if combined with another attacking minded player that can come deeper and do the creative stuff, is exactly what we need. Even from the little I've seen of him so far it is clear that he is quick, precise and confident on the ball in build up play. And, most importantly, in the box he knows how to direct the ball towards goal without too many touches, and knows where to be in the box.
Defoe always does the "knock the ball to the side, lash it at the goal" thing. It works well at a distance. Close up though, he does the same thing, hardly ever picks a spot, or looks first, and frequently smacks it straight at the keeper/defender.
The alternative would have been to buy a Drogba clone. But there aren't too many of those.. Lukaku, Benteke etc, and they are highly sought after in a very competitive market.
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
When Levy refuses to sanction a large bid for a striker, he is a harangued for being tight-fisted. This summer we had massively increased TV revenues (which caused many clubs to spend a net £25m+) and we still came out of the summer in profit from our transfer dealings. For once it was not so risky for Levy to lay down some serious cash, so he finally did what Spurs fans have been crying out for him to do for years. Surely in this context the fee is irrelevant so long as he ticks all the boxes as a player.
You criticise his movement against Arsenal, yet in that game Soldado had little opportunity to showcase it. We dominated possession and controlled the midfield, but only in areas completely comfortable for the opposition, and well away from Soldado. He was isolated not because of a lack of movement from him, but an inability to stretch the opposition with the ball and get players into areas where his movement could be exploited. I still seem to remember a straight ball from Capoue that found Soldado's diagonal run into one of the channels, it just so happened that these balls were few and far between.
Of course the movement discussed above is only one aspect of 'movement' for a striker, he could have also dropped deeper and ventured to the wings in search of possession and to link the play. But that sounds a lot like what Adebayor was lambasted for last season, what caused him to score so few goals, but was instrumental in Bale's goalscoring. This year we have no Bale, so vacating the space in front of the CBs early in build-up is not going to be as productive because we have no-one positioned behind the striker with the mobility and goal threat to take advantage of such movement (Paulinho doesn't count). Last year, Bale would sometimes even play off the shoulder of the defender because Adebayor had traveled so far, this year we have no-one who can provide that threat in behind, which pins the defence back and provides more space in midfield.
So it makes sense tactically for Soldado to restrain his movement early in the build-up - if he started dropping deep, the opposition (especially Arsenal) could squeeze up and pressure us into a mistake. Now of course Townsend and Chadli could be used to push the defence back by playing higher up, but then we would shape up more like Barcelona, with Soldado in the Messi role as a false 9. Soldado is an excellent player but Messi he is not. Furthermore this would put a greater creative burden on the CMs, none of whom against Arsenal were the type of player you would associate with vision and long passing akin to Xavi.
Most importantly though, Soldado's best work in terms of intelligent movement comes in the box. If our wingers and full-backs hit good, or even mediocre, balls to the front/back post, Soldado will be waiting to knock them goalwards, and he finishes with such composure and subtlety that he often scores. With a proper playmaker, someone to set the rhythm and circulate the ball quickly in the space between the opposition defence and midfield, causing a bit more panic and exposing a few more holes across the pitch, we will see more of Soldado peeling off his man to be played through by Eriksen/Holtby and more of our wide players hitting the byline to cut balls back across the face for him to tap in.
This is a type of movement Defoe and especially Ade do not have in their locker. Defoe went through a phase of meeting Lennon's cutbacks at the front post, but Soldado can actually read the play of his teammates and the opposition and make a decision as to how to get that half yard before the ball comes to him (as opposed to Defoe who creates this space on the ball with a quick shuffle). That is the art of the tap-in - how many tap-ins do you remember us scoring last year from well worked moves? Part of this was due to Bale playing through the middle, but the fact was that no-one was there. Often we would be in the final third with 1 man in the box!
If we had a player who could help us retain possession higher up the pitch against Arsenal I firmly believe we would have witnessed the guile in Soldado's penalty area movement. What is he supposed to do when Vertonghen and Dawson are playing keepball on the halfway line? Give him a couple of months, or even a couple of games with a full-strength team at least...
When Levy refuses to sanction a large bid for a striker, he is a harangued for being tight-fisted. This summer we had massively increased TV revenues (which caused many clubs to spend a net £25m+) and we still came out of the summer in profit from our transfer dealings. For once it was not so risky for Levy to lay down some serious cash, so he finally did what Spurs fans have been crying out for him to do for years. Surely in this context the fee is irrelevant so long as he ticks all the boxes as a player.
You criticise his movement against Arsenal, yet in that game Soldado had little opportunity to showcase it. We dominated possession and controlled the midfield, but only in areas completely comfortable for the opposition, and well away from Soldado. He was isolated not because of a lack of movement from him, but an inability to stretch the opposition with the ball and get players into areas where his movement could be exploited. I still seem to remember a straight ball from Capoue that found Soldado's diagonal run into one of the channels, it just so happened that these balls were few and far between.
Of course the movement discussed above is only one aspect of 'movement' for a striker, he could have also dropped deeper and ventured to the wings in search of possession and to link the play. But that sounds a lot like what Adebayor was lambasted for last season, what caused him to score so few goals, but was instrumental in Bale's goalscoring. This year we have no Bale, so vacating the space in front of the CBs early in build-up is not going to be as productive because we have no-one positioned behind the striker with the mobility and goal threat to take advantage of such movement (Paulinho doesn't count). Last year, Bale would sometimes even play off the shoulder of the defender because Adebayor had traveled so far, this year we have no-one who can provide that threat in behind, which pins the defence back and provides more space in midfield.
So it makes sense tactically for Soldado to restrain his movement early in the build-up - if he started dropping deep, the opposition (especially Arsenal) could squeeze up and pressure us into a mistake. Now of course Townsend and Chadli could be used to push the defence back by playing higher up, but then we would shape up more like Barcelona, with Soldado in the Messi role as a false 9. Soldado is an excellent player but Messi he is not. Furthermore this would put a greater creative burden on the CMs, none of whom against Arsenal were the type of player you would associate with vision and long passing akin to Xavi.
Most importantly though, Soldado's best work in terms of intelligent movement comes in the box. If our wingers and full-backs hit good, or even mediocre, balls to the front/back post, Soldado will be waiting to knock them goalwards, and he finishes with such composure and subtlety that he often scores. With a proper playmaker, someone to set the rhythm and circulate the ball quickly in the space between the opposition defence and midfield, causing a bit more panic and exposing a few more holes across the pitch, we will see more of Soldado peeling off his man to be played through by Eriksen/Holtby and more of our wide players hitting the byline to cut balls back across the face for him to tap in.
This is a type of movement Defoe and especially Ade do not have in their locker. Defoe went through a phase of meeting Lennon's cutbacks at the front post, but Soldado can actually read the play of his teammates and the opposition and make a decision as to how to get that half yard before the ball comes to him (as opposed to Defoe who creates this space on the ball with a quick shuffle). That is the art of the tap-in - how many tap-ins do you remember us scoring last year from well worked moves? Part of this was due to Bale playing through the middle, but the fact was that no-one was there. Often we would be in the final third with 1 man in the box!
If we had a player who could help us retain possession higher up the pitch against Arsenal I firmly believe we would have witnessed the guile in Soldado's penalty area movement. What is he supposed to do when Vertonghen and Dawson are playing keepball on the halfway line? Give him a couple of months, or even a couple of games with a full-strength team at least...
chancer
Gudni Bergsson
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
Just beneath the surface in this thread it's obvious that a lot of people are jittery about Soldado. And that's fair enough - he has been anonymous for long, long portions of our 3 games.
I have to be honest and say I share these jitters.
However...
- He scored loads of goals in Spain. Loads.
- Two good football men in AVB and FB thought he was worth serious, serious money.
- He is in the Spanish first team, or at worst a regular sub, and Spain are still the best int'l team in the world.
So I'm holding my nerve and will only start making judgements from this weekend onwards.
Just beneath the surface in this thread it's obvious that a lot of people are jittery about Soldado. And that's fair enough - he has been anonymous for long, long portions of our 3 games.
I have to be honest and say I share these jitters.
However...
- He scored loads of goals in Spain. Loads.
- Two good football men in AVB and FB thought he was worth serious, serious money.
- He is in the Spanish first team, or at worst a regular sub, and Spain are still the best int'l team in the world.
So I'm holding my nerve and will only start making judgements from this weekend onwards.
I
indianspur
Guest
Re: Soldado - Official! - Medical Completed!!
i dont know what you expected of Soldado but he is never going to be an Henry, Drogba or Shearer
he is a simple finisher, a striker that relies on service. A Lineker type lets say. These types will largely be anonymous for long periods and then bang, a good cross or a defence splitting pass in behind the defence and they come alive. Right now, our team is not providing him with this kind of service
AVB must improve the teams attacking play. Its his biggest challenge. If he fails to do this, Soldado will struggle to score goals, the team will struggle to get into the top 5, and AVB himself will be under extreme pressure from those above him
i dont know what you expected of Soldado but he is never going to be an Henry, Drogba or Shearer
he is a simple finisher, a striker that relies on service. A Lineker type lets say. These types will largely be anonymous for long periods and then bang, a good cross or a defence splitting pass in behind the defence and they come alive. Right now, our team is not providing him with this kind of service
AVB must improve the teams attacking play. Its his biggest challenge. If he fails to do this, Soldado will struggle to score goals, the team will struggle to get into the top 5, and AVB himself will be under extreme pressure from those above him