glorygloryeze
Nayim
He's the best PL manager THFC has ever had, despite the lack of trophies, so...
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Circus ManUnitus - Nobody's At The Wheel
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
He's the best PL manager THFC has ever had, despite the lack of trophies, so...
Bedfordspurs
Osvaldo Ardiles
He is
But we still don’t know and will never know how much of that is stars aligning
He inherited so many good players and the very best took to him so well
It was such a high period
But it was a a combination of him and his team and the right players
glorygloryeze
Nayim
Yep, but until another THFC manager surpasses his second place finish plus constant top 4/CL participations, well...
johnaliola
Edgar Davids
And a fortuitous low point in all the other top teams cycles.
ricky2tricky4city
David Ginola
Well, Step 1 complete. Carrick has gone.
Bedfordspurs
Osvaldo Ardiles
Again that’s hard to judge
Because not every team is at the top
Look at the league right now and you can see that by some way
glorygloryeze
Nayim
I'd say the quality and competitiveness at the top of the Premier League was more then than it is now...
Bedfordspurs
Osvaldo Ardiles
100%
That why I don’t think it’s fair
Have to look at everything based on the circumstances at the time
Poch Inherited some amazing players
But he also had to make it work
The players also had to buy in to what he wanted
And he also had to convince the fans
Many variables all aligned and he has to have massive credit from that
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Frederic Kanoute
I think he inherited amazing talent and potential but I don’t think it’s fair to say amazing players. It was what Poch did to help those players reach their potential that made them amazing, because they weren’t the same level under AVB or Sherwood.
Bedfordspurs
Osvaldo Ardiles
Again
Now way of knowing that for a fact
But it needed eveything to align
and they were arguably less experienced before he came in and maybe the progression, partly, came from what had happened previously
I’m not knocking Poch. I loved the guy And we did the wrong thing (for the right reasons) sacking him
glorygloryeze
Nayim
This, and it seems many forget how we went from being seen as 'easy 3 points' when we played many of our rivals to them knowing hang on, we'll be in a proper game here.
The upturn of our consistent PL standings started from Jol (regular 5th placed finshes and expectations to achieve that as a given) to Harry (and his making our home games vs Chelsea and Arsenal more tricky for them) to AVB (wins away at Old Trafford and giving a now doped-City better challenges) to Poch (regular home wins vs Chelsea, Arsenal AND Man Utd and genuine fear/respect for us from others at the top of the table).
Poch took what we had and stepped things up a level...a level we have yet to reach since even with greater spend/resources.
Poch wasn't without faults of course and his public statements about 'trophies aren't going to change our lives' absolutely haunt...but at the very least he should have the RESPECT from any Spurs - at the very least until we get another manger than can get consecutive top 3/4 finishes 4 years in a row
jts1882
Edgar Davids
There was a period where nearly all the new England players had played under Pochettino at Southampton or Spurs. Getting young players to develop their full potential is one of his strengths, and why it worked so well with us (possibly too well).
I'm not sure this strength will be useful at United. I'd say Chelsea's young squad would be a better match. Regardless, I'm sure he will get them out of the relegation zone soon enough, which might meet the Glazer's financial expectations.
I'm not sure this strength will be useful at United. I'd say Chelsea's young squad would be a better match. Regardless, I'm sure he will get them out of the relegation zone soon enough, which might meet the Glazer's financial expectations.
And who exactly has Poch taken up a level or achieved quantifiable success with since? Just reinforces @Bedfordspurs point that it's about timing as much as anything - he was great for us, but it's not like he's gone elsewhere and hit great heights to reinforce the point he's one of the top managers.
I liked Poch, and said on here some time ago I didn't fully appreciate the job he did at Spurs at the time. But there's a reason why he's coaching the USA and why Man U who have been searching for managers many times in recent years have only plumped for Poch once they are at their lowest point in modern history....
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Frederic Kanoute
If I had to guess, I’d say that post Spurs Poch set about proving that he wasn’t just a project manager, wasn’t only suited to getting young players to press very hard, and actually could manage the egos that come at the elite level, so that he could put himself in that bracket of coaches. I see a person who is making logical choices about the next step in his career.
PSG was a place he could show he could manage Messi, Neymar and Mbappe, and carry their respect. Even their own players have talked about how having the three of them in the side (which is a directive from above, not the coach) made it very difficult to be cohesive. At Chelsea, the end of his first season resembled the end of his first with us, they started to look very consistent. I think the attraction there was a club with more money in theory, to buy the very best young players. So that he wouldn’t be limited by Spurs budget, but wouldn’t be forced to shoehorn in superstars like at PSG either.
Then the USA, to take them into the World Cup as hosts and get paid a brick load of money for far less work because the head of Citadel is paying your salary. It makes total sense to me.
All of that to say, even when people are giving him high praise, I still think it undersells the job he did with us. He made us actual, regular title challengers, he made a CL final with a Winks / Sissoko pivot and no signings for 18 months. He did it on far less of a budget than the teams he was competing with. I think it was an absolute triumph of management, of culture building and standards setting, and coaching and development. Even if he did nothing since, he would still be a top manager purely because of that. He would need to show he adapts to the modern game of course, but every job he has taken since has made sense, and it’s not as if he has failed. He’s been adding strings to his bow.
glorygloryeze
Nayim
Timing works both ways; he's have been back with us with a bigger budget if not for timing; who knows what he could've done with Chelski if not for their ownership model at the time (thank GHod for that eh)...
Lemonade Money
Barry Daines
I remember people saying the same things when he took the Chelsea job. I'm sure he'll be okay.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Frederic Kanoute
I think we had a roughly ten year period of the club getting its act together post the 03-04 season where he became very consistent top 6 finishers. We’ve then had a period post Poch where we’ve been lucky to make the top 6. The bit in the middle, is him.
We’ve always signed players with potential in that period, and we’d always fallen just short of making that next step. I find it hard to believe that it was just coincidence that all of Walker, Vertoghen, Dembele, Dier, Rose, Lamela, Eriksen, Kane, Son, Dele, Trippier, Davies, all just so happened to reach an elite level or close to it during his time with us. Hell, Winks, Sissoko, Mason, Bentaleb, and others were either plucked from the academy and became important pieces or reached heights with us they never would again.
It isn’t as if we didn’t have talented players before, but one man created something that made each of them better, true whole greater than the sum of the parts stuff. It did need everything to align, but I think that’s true of any manager, anywhere. As it relates to United, many good managers have been chewed up because things did not align.
I think as a club, it pains me to say it but the DNA is probably the closest Poch fit there is. Stylistically he is the closest to Fergie. A figurehead, a father figure, someone who can let mavericks shine but creates enough structure behind them to be solid. Someone that uses a core of young players to create a culture. I think he’ll do a great job there so long as Ratcliffe doesn’t make it impossible.
Ace Face
Gus Poyet
I feel for Carrick. Unsupported by the Board after he had achieved a massive turnaround last year with a 3rd place finish.
This season was mostly (not all) on the players. Bruno is a terrible captain but Carrick was saddled with that selection and an unbalanced squad, and quite simply the team let him down. Stupid errors by experienced players consistently putting themselves in poor positions.
The only reason he has been sacked is so the higher-ups can claim to be doing something when they dropped the ball massively in the offseason and didn’t put their guy in a position to succeed.
I hope Poch is bringing the largest bowl he can find because he’s going to need a ton of lemons to turn that sinking ship around.
This season was mostly (not all) on the players. Bruno is a terrible captain but Carrick was saddled with that selection and an unbalanced squad, and quite simply the team let him down. Stupid errors by experienced players consistently putting themselves in poor positions.
The only reason he has been sacked is so the higher-ups can claim to be doing something when they dropped the ball massively in the offseason and didn’t put their guy in a position to succeed.
I hope Poch is bringing the largest bowl he can find because he’s going to need a ton of lemons to turn that sinking ship around.
