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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

P.D. said:
A few hundred extra homes won't bring much growth, then on the flipside you have this - https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-housing-sadiq-khan-taylor-wimpey-b1299989.html
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The housing market is a game of economics....and it's diverging economics at the moment. Buyers have less buying power and raised mortgage costs (plus the CofL generally) and builders have raised costs across the board.

It's a reflection of many sectors....people's disposable income evaporating is slowly killing many businesses.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
The housing market is a game of economics....and it's diverging economics at the moment. Buyers have less buying power and raised mortgage costs (plus the CofL generally) and builders have raised costs across the board.

It's a reflection of many sectors....people's disposable income evaporating is slowly killing many businesses.
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On the money. Rising prices, particularly in the restaurant and food services areas, are hurting on all sides. I absolutely understand why prices have to go up, but dinner for two in an average place rarely runs less than 60 quid and that's if you dont have a glass of wine. Even two orders of fish and chips is what, 25 quid? It adds up. I think that we're in for a 'covid era' stretch soon, wherby people just don't really go out much and any entertainment is online/some online shopping.
 
Rorschach said:
Yes terrible. I have seen plenty of very good suggestions over the years, but none have been widely adopted. Kate Raworth's 'donut' is one that comes to mind that had a bit of traction (good book too). I'm sure I was reading a while back about some countries that have gone a different way, maybe still publishing GDP but also using a selection of more relevant metrics. I'll search for that.
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I've had that book on my reading list for ages, hopefully get round to it soon.

Most mentions of the alternatives are still on the fringes, I'm surprised no leader comes up with this stuff and lots of other more obvious stuff that a modern country needs like more digitisation etc. Would surely be a vote winner if someone could articulate it properly.
 
thfcsteff said:
On the money. Rising prices, particularly in the restaurant and food services areas, are hurting on all sides. I absolutely understand why prices have to go up, but dinner for two in an average place rarely runs less than 60 quid and that's if you dont have a glass of wine. Even two orders of fish and chips is what, 25 quid? It adds up. I think that we're in for a 'covid era' stretch soon, wherby people just don't really go out much and any entertainment is online/some online shopping.
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We're already there, I go out far less because the value just isn't there or it doesn't like it is. In some ways I feel bad because a lot of these places are doing what they can to keep costs down but even going to a cafe for a family of 4 with 2 kids who don't each much is easily £60-70.
 
thfcsteff said:
On the money. Rising prices, particularly in the restaurant and food services areas, are hurting on all sides. I absolutely understand why prices have to go up, but dinner for two in an average place rarely runs less than 60 quid and that's if you dont have a glass of wine. Even two orders of fish and chips is what, 25 quid? It adds up. I think that we're in for a 'covid era' stretch soon, wherby people just don't really go out much and any entertainment is online/some online shopping.
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We are in for it mate, I mentioned it months ago on here at the start of Iran. Working in hospitality I heard about it near every meeting I have had in the last 12 months. Supply chain costs for anything is now utterly fcuked, fuel costs on top of increasing productions costs on top of anything impacted by sending supply over a distance is absolutely killing business.
 
P.D. said:
We're already there, I go out far less because the value just isn't there or it doesn't like it is. In some ways I feel bad because a lot of these places are doing what they can to keep costs down but even going to a cafe for a family of 4 with 2 kids who don't each much is easily £60-70.
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The 'value' could be there from the sellers pov (obviously we are not privvy to their input costs), it's just mismatched with our earnings input.
One does indeed have to think about opening your wallet on ALL occasions these days. And that situation has been rising up thru the middle classes for nearly a decade.

The big question is, is the cause generally natural fluctuations of financial parameters or is it more by 'design'?
 
P.D. said:
I've had that book on my reading list for ages, hopefully get round to it soon.

Most mentions of the alternatives are still on the fringes, I'm surprised no leader comes up with this stuff and lots of other more obvious stuff that a modern country needs like more digitisation etc. Would surely be a vote winner if someone could articulate it properly.
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New Zealand are one country that has deprioritised GDP. It uses a happiness and wellbeing index. I dare say you yourself could easily come up with a set of meaningful metrics before you finish your first coffee this morning. Selling it the wider public would be the tricky bit though, as you say.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
The 'value' could be there from the sellers pov (obviously we are not privvy to their input costs), it's just mismatched with our earnings input.
One does indeed have to think about opening your wallet on ALL occasions these days. And that situation has been rising up thru the middle classes for nearly a decade.

The big question is, is the cause generally natural fluctuations of financial parameters or is it more by 'design'?
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We are witnessing end-stage capitalism, but of course there are numerous other system shocks like COVID and various pointless wars, exacerbating things. Even when these factors ease off for whatever reason, others will take their place. We are in the age of polycrisis.
 
Rorschach said:
We are witnessing end-stage capitalism, but of course there are numerous other system shocks like COVID and various pointless wars, exacerbating things. Even when these factors ease off for whatever reason, others will take their place. We are in the age of polycrisis.
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That's pretty close to my thoughts.

Capitalism has got itself in a pickle :)

And the end stage of anything is messy.
 
P.D. said:
I've had that book on my reading list for ages, hopefully get round to it soon.

Most mentions of the alternatives are still on the fringes, I'm surprised no leader comes up with this stuff and lots of other more obvious stuff that a modern country needs like more digitisation etc. Would surely be a vote winner if someone could articulate it properly.
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GDP simply measures population growth and planet destruction.

A median quality of life index would be the thing to use. Something that factors in wealth inequality, healthy lifespan, air/water/soil quality, affordability of housing, crime rates, localism of consumption, education levels, leisure time, community connectedness measure etc.
 
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thfcsteff said:
On the money. Rising prices, particularly in the restaurant and food services areas, are hurting on all sides. I absolutely understand why prices have to go up, but dinner for two in an average place rarely runs less than 60 quid and that's if you dont have a glass of wine. Even two orders of fish and chips is what, 25 quid? It adds up. I think that we're in for a 'covid era' stretch soon, wherby people just don't really go out much and any entertainment is online/some online shopping.
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There's ways around it. Leisure doesn't have to equate to consumers. People don't need to become hermits or zombies.

Sport participation is largely free (I pay about £10 a week for 3x football combined, and nothing for my running clubs). Live music can also be free or very cheap (I never pay more than about £8 a ticket) if you hunt out things in backrooms of the right type of pubs or old warehouse venues.
 
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