Djed Spence

[Muttley]

I don't really understand this argument re assists with Spence. He's playing on the wrong side doing us a favour, why would we expect any offensive output from him? That's not his position, it's not his role. Do you think Porro's assist numbers wouldn't also suffer if he also played the majority of his games on the left? Such a weird criticism.

If you want to critique his attacking play then fair enough but at least appreciate the caveat that he had played 15 games total in his actual position for us and the vast majority of his minutes have been as an emergency LB, so any output is going to be significantly diminished.

If he gets minutes on the right, then we can actually speak of his attacking qualities or lack of until then it feels like such a disengerous approach to take.

I think you should read what I wrote though. I totally talked about those mitigating circumstances with changing manager tactics and playing out of position. That's why |I haven't given up on him at all. I want to see the Porro/Spence and Udogie/Robbo competition for places. I want to see these guys pushing each other really hard.

Most of all though, I want to see tangible outputs from our full-backs. Clean sheets, assists and goals are about as important stats as you get in football. They need to pass the eye test as well. If we get 15-20 goals/assists across all of our full-backs this season then remember this conversation. You heard it here first.

As some have already said, I'm not even sure why we're worrying about the full-back position this coming season. The only thing I'm mildly worried about is getting young Souza some regular game time. That will happen in due course now we've retained Davies as well and have VDV as a LB option. I'm sure Souza will be loaned out and polished up for when Robbo amd Davies roll off the roster.

 

[LutonSpurs]

Would love VDV to have the same standards applied to him for positioning and attitude. But hey.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Spence + attitude issues + tropism IMO.

He has his own way and personality. He is apparently not allowed to have his own way or personality.
Personally? I find him a little sullen to the public eye, however he could well be a shy person who 'masks' and finds other ways to deal it, he could also just be someone who has that vibe about him. Every single facial expression, action, and attitude he displays is judged to the negative. It's never 'oh he's cool as a cucumber' or whatever, it's always 'he's got attitude/seems angry' etc. I think the recent isolating pillorying he received for the England game spoke to that a lot. The facts show that in terms of his application to his job, he must actually be steel-hard. After essentially being clamed off by Conte the second he arrived, he has quietly fought and fought to elevate his career to the point where he is at the World Cup for his country.
FWIW, I'd be starting Porro and Udogie over him, but I do think some of the stuff flung at him is nonsense!

Think this is basically it.

And as such is life, some people (fans, managers, coaches etc) will give such a character make-up short thrift. Misguided perhaps in labelling it an attitude problem, but on the other hand might not have the skills, or perceived time, to unpick or manage such a character (which is fair enough).

From Spences side, I think he really rates himself (a fair assessment as well), so when someone doesn't align with his own assessment he doesn't deal with it well and due to his character make-up, I can imagine it comes across as surly or arrogant...but that's who he is, he's a footballer, he's not in another industry where you would learn to communicate better, for better relationships and outcomes.

 

[Bishop]

I think you should read what I wrote though. I totally talked about those mitigating circumstances with changing manager tactics and playing out of position. That's why |I haven't given up on him at all. I want to see the Porro/Spence and Udogie/Robbo competition for places. I want to see these guys pushing each other really hard.

Most of all though, I want to see tangible outputs from our full-backs. Clean sheets, assists and goals are about as important stats as you get in football. They need to pass the eye test as well. If we get 15-20 goals/assists across all of our full-backs this season then remember this conversation. You heard it here first.

As some have already said, I'm not even sure why we're worrying about the full-back position this coming season. The only thing I'm mildly worried about is getting young Souza some regular game time. That will happen in due course now we've retained Davies as well and have VDV as a LB option. I'm sure Souza will be loaned out and polished up for when Robbo amd Davies roll off the roster.

But you will mentioned his assists numbers. The manager or the players isn't the thing that's going to affect the number of assists Spence has been involved in up to to this point. The pain he plays in will, so that's why I said I don't understand your critique of those numbers it's a pointless comment.

One stat that never looks favourable with Djed is assists (and goals). He has only had 2 assists throughout his entire PL career. Zero assists last season even though he started 23 and was sub in 7 of the 38 games. That is a lot of time to be on a pitch in the wide area and not get an assist. Saying that, Porro was reduced to 1 goal and a couple of assists but has previously been up at 6 or 7 assists in prior seasons.

Does the above result really read like some one understanding he's playing in a foreign position? You said it's a lot of time played for little return, why would you expect there to be any return for a right footed RB playing LB?

 

[HarryBreadbap]

DJ will not be sold, that much is clear.

De Zerbi is a big fan of his, and it speaks volumes of the player when the England manager selects a player with a broken jaw over any other candidate to play at a World Cup.

Most of the year I live in Colorado at an altitude of 7,500ft and there are challenges for even the fittest of individuals who hike or run at this altitude let alone come over for a month or so and train at a high level with a broken jaw.

Credit to DJ for embracing the challenge, heat and humidity and quality of opponents that he has faced so far, and to Tuchel for selecting him not only for the squad but to actually play an important role.

 

[robp135]

I think that is the point that guys like myself and @robp135 have been making. Spence is a good defender one on one but does that really matter if he's not positionally correct. The first time I remember really feeling his defensive qualities was against Mbuemo at Brentford. Frank had Mbuemo on fire for Brentford before the Utd move and he was getting goals / assists galore. I thought Spence concentrated brilliantly that game and got into the physical battle with their best player. One of the very few occasions where I thought Djed was MoTM and put in a 90 min s contribution. He did a proper job on Mbuemo.

Then other times I've watched Djed just ambling back when he should be sprinting. I've seen some woeful far post defending from him as the ball hits out net. Therefore, I would always argue back that Djed isn't a great defender. He's currently not better than Pedro who has some chinks in his armour as well. Pedro certainly contains his errors down to a very few and plays with an intensity that Djed hasn't found yet. You don't see Pedro just ambling back ever.

So Djed leaves me confused. At 26 you need to pull your entire game together. You should have worked at your weaknesses and found ways to improve them or leave them less exposed on the pitch. I'm still in both of these players corner though. I do think we will worry less about full-back this coming season.

Yeh he’s not a better defender. He’s just a better one on one defender.

 

[robp135]

De Zerbi is a big fan of his.

Is he?

 

[Muttley]

But you will mentioned his assists numbers. The manager or the players isn't the thing that's going to affect the number of assists Spence has been involved in up to to this point. The pain he plays in will, so that's why I said I don't understand your critique of those numbers it's a pointless comment.

Yeah, I was quoting career level stats as well. Even in that amazing Forest promotion season, he only got 4 assists. I actually think RDZ will get him more in a Spurs shirt. That's part of the intrigue about unlocking that potential.

Does the above result really read like some one understanding he's playing in a foreign position? You said it's a lot of time played for little return, why would you expect there to be any return for a right footed RB playing LB?

Because he has 2 feet. He's failed the eye test at times when he's been in absolutely great positions down the left and refused to slide the ball across or cross it in the air.

I will re-state again. I'm not bashing Djed at all and do rate him. I'm just waiting to see what RDZ can unlock in him. I have no agenda here.