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Johan Lange - Sporting Director
- Thread starter Chrissivad
- Start date
Bedfordspurs
Bert Smith
Where is that value from though
SteveAWOL
Willie Hall
Obviously that’s merely a guesstimate according to their own parameters but the fact that we’ve spent nearly £1billion on transfer fees since Pochettino’s departure but have gone from Top 4 regulars to relegation battlers is a damning indictment of how badly we’ve mismanaged the “painful rebuild”
Tottenham near £1bn in signings since Pochettino sacking after £35m Conor Gallagher deal
Only Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs have spent more than Spurs on players over the past six years
www.telegraph.co.uk
Bedfordspurs
Bert Smith
Spend isn’t valueObviously that’s merely a guesstimate according to their own parameters but the fact that we’ve spent nearly £1billion on transfer fees since Pochettino’s departure but have gone from Top 4 regulars to relegation battlers is a damning indictment of how badly we’ve mismanaged the “painful rebuild”
Tottenham near £1bn in signings since Pochettino sacking after £35m Conor Gallagher deal
Only Chelsea and the two Manchester clubs have spent more than Spurs on players over the past six years
That’s always my issue with it all
It’s like the turnover table being used as a metric for money…
It’s all madness and make believe
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Pat van den Hauwe
This article would probably also suit the ‘what triggered our downfall’ thread. But thought this was excellent: https://www.reddit.com/r/coys/s/UOjmdjOwe3
Very clear that we have been blinded by data. Using data the wrong ways, to confirm existing biases. And I think Lange is the big culprit around this. Unfortunately no one above or around him has had the sense to temper this, and it’s led to a number of extraordinarily bad decisions being consistently made over the last year.
Very clear that we have been blinded by data. Using data the wrong ways, to confirm existing biases. And I think Lange is the big culprit around this. Unfortunately no one above or around him has had the sense to temper this, and it’s led to a number of extraordinarily bad decisions being consistently made over the last year.
Reading the comments rather than the article but someone commented that it says we don't have a midfielder in the top 200 passers (by the passing metric established by the source material) in the league.
Our players passing and ability to move the ball forwards has been a consistent complaint this season from some of us - glad to see that validated here given the push back that opinion recieved
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Pat van den Hauwe
Agreed.
This idea of Tottenham being overly reliant on data (seemingly thinking that if we could be a richer Brentford that we will challenge for titles) has been under discussed in the media but I think it is getting more purchase finally. Makes me excited to read everything that’s gonna come out if relegation is confirmed, because it’s going to be a fascinating sports story.
It’s this passing ability thing, and also something the Guardian mentioned about the players needing to be bought into the style of play. In that data can’t measure how much they are bought in, but they need to be.
ricky2tricky4city
Paul Stewart
I don't think there's been much, if any, push back on that. And it ain't just this season, last season was just as unimaginative.
Mikey10
Paul Walsh
We’d probably have played him in goals.
mudshark
Simon Davies
This passage from the ESPN article linked in the reddit post bears repetition:
Tottenham's major issue: They can't pass
Usually, soccer is a complex, dynamic game where individual qualities are impossible to extract from the interdependencies of roster construction, managerial instructions and on-field interactions. But sometimes you get a team like Tottenham, where the diagnosis is pretty simple: These guys can't pass.
At Gradient Sports, there is a team of people who watch every Premier League game and grade every pass a player makes on a minus-2 to plus-2 scale. Here's how they describe the process:
For example, consider a centre-back passing the ball on the halfway line. A routine, unpressured pass to an open teammate would receive a 0, as this meets the expectation of our expert Grading team. A precise, line-breaking pass under pressure would receive a positive grade. Conversely, an underhit pass to a teammate -- even if completed -- would receive a negative grade if it falls below the expected standard. This reflects our focus on evaluating performance rather than just outcomes.
The grading process is guided by detailed frameworks designed to minimise subjectivity and ensure consistency. Once raw grades are collected, they undergo multiple layers of quality control, including senior review of flagged actions, consistency checks, ongoing analysis, and dedicated quality assurance processes.
Based on this process of evaluating passing, here's where Tottenham's five best passers rank in the Premier League season:
1. Cristian Romero: 19th
2. Mickey van de Ven: 87th
3. Destiny Udogie: 152nd
4. Kevin Danso: 167th
5. Mohamed Kudus: 186th
Passing is the fundamental skill in this sport. The average Premier League team attempts 450 passes per game. Nothing else comes close: in a single game, the average team attempts eight shots, crosses the ball 18 times, tries to dribble past defenders 18 times, attempts 16 tackles, and makes eight interceptions. If you can't pass the ball, then nothing else matters. It's the force at the heart of the game that gives everything else meaning.
So, how the heck does one of the richest teams in the world -- one that purports to be the modern example of what a soccer club is -- build a team with only two of the 150 best passers in its own league?
Tottenham's major issue: They can't pass
Usually, soccer is a complex, dynamic game where individual qualities are impossible to extract from the interdependencies of roster construction, managerial instructions and on-field interactions. But sometimes you get a team like Tottenham, where the diagnosis is pretty simple: These guys can't pass.
At Gradient Sports, there is a team of people who watch every Premier League game and grade every pass a player makes on a minus-2 to plus-2 scale. Here's how they describe the process:
For example, consider a centre-back passing the ball on the halfway line. A routine, unpressured pass to an open teammate would receive a 0, as this meets the expectation of our expert Grading team. A precise, line-breaking pass under pressure would receive a positive grade. Conversely, an underhit pass to a teammate -- even if completed -- would receive a negative grade if it falls below the expected standard. This reflects our focus on evaluating performance rather than just outcomes.
The grading process is guided by detailed frameworks designed to minimise subjectivity and ensure consistency. Once raw grades are collected, they undergo multiple layers of quality control, including senior review of flagged actions, consistency checks, ongoing analysis, and dedicated quality assurance processes.
Based on this process of evaluating passing, here's where Tottenham's five best passers rank in the Premier League season:
1. Cristian Romero: 19th
2. Mickey van de Ven: 87th
3. Destiny Udogie: 152nd
4. Kevin Danso: 167th
5. Mohamed Kudus: 186th
Passing is the fundamental skill in this sport. The average Premier League team attempts 450 passes per game. Nothing else comes close: in a single game, the average team attempts eight shots, crosses the ball 18 times, tries to dribble past defenders 18 times, attempts 16 tackles, and makes eight interceptions. If you can't pass the ball, then nothing else matters. It's the force at the heart of the game that gives everything else meaning.
So, how the heck does one of the richest teams in the world -- one that purports to be the modern example of what a soccer club is -- build a team with only two of the 150 best passers in its own league?
Ace Face
Gordon Durie
Nail. Head.
SissokoWasGood (BoL)
Pat van den Hauwe
It’s one of those things that is completely maddening from the outside looking in. Like…I like Conor Gallagher, I rate him as a player, and I respect the fact that top managers like Poch and Simeone have rated him too.
But almost every single person outside the club as a fan said he wasn’t what we needed. And we just went ahead and did that anyway. Our two best creative passers are out, and we added a similar profile to what we already have. All the while our data and analytics heavy Technical Director crowd about not panicking.
Oh and at the same time we sell Brennan for no reason and don’t replace him, further weakening us in the attack. Probably because some data model suggested we were going to get peak value. And any judgement about what a stretched thin squad needed psychologically or in terms of bodies on the pitch be damned.
Honestly this stuff makes me so angry. It’s the hubris, the lack of self reflection, the certainty that they are making the right decisions while actually sending the club down. It’s the same thing that makes me angry about the refs justifying their treatment of us this season. But we’re supposed to believe in and respect our Sporting Director’s vision for the club and their ability. But he has been bad. And worse still is that people with more power than him haven’t been able to see it.
Mrs Vert
Dean Austin
If he seriously thoughf that nobody else could improve this team while knowing the injuries we had and didn't want recall loans or get loans in. Then I just don't know why he is here.
I don't see how anyone could think a 19yr Brazilian and Conor was good business. People who have no idea about football would know in a job that is negligence not to prepare
WHEN IS HE LEAVING??!
Mrs Vert
Dean Austin
Him being in the job for as long as he has been is also criminal
Mrs Vert
Dean Austin
That's funny considering we penny pinch and when we do spend it's on rubbish. And then we pay off managers every other year......it's beyond hilarious
Mrs Vert
Dean Austin
And he would have got injured
Bishop
Rafael Van Der Vaart
Not fudging surprised AT ALL!
This is the reason we are getting relegated more than any other.
I said it all season, Romero being a decent passer is a nice bonus but a CB should never be the primary passer on a team. If that is what you have, then this season is what you get.
What are the metrics? It's plain to see there is an issue with progressive passing in midfield. Under Frank he was risk adverse and there was no forward passing allowed through the centre of midfield. Will be interesting to see how De Zerbi deals with it.
thfcsteff
Sonny Walters
I think Frank carries a large part of this issue with Lange. He was not interested in that sort of player. So while everyone was saying he 'deserved time', my point was 'time for what? To perfect a style of football which relies in crosses, wide play and set-pieces?
As for Romero, no-one disagreed that I can see. I did consistently point out he was one of only passers we had (Porro being the other) and yes, for the I like to see football played that is shiitte. If we had not leant on Romero for that, perhaps he and us would've had a better season.
Lange has to go of course...