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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v West Ham FC ***

SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
To synthesise my point a bit…if Frank took over a Moyes team I think he’d have them higher in the league right now than we are. Be it West Ham or Everton, because his method and style in every respect wouldn’t be such a departure from what came before. I truly believe the fact that he is so different is part of the issue.

Vinai likes to talk about the fact that we have so much transition and it’s true. I don’t really believe that the lack of a Rebecca Caplethorn replacement until now is having any bearing on our on field results. But I do think sending a squad that was settled in one way of doing things into a completely different way, while the entire club is changing leaders in every direction, was an interesting and frankly needless choice.
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the next appointment could well be another extreme from Frank and we go again. You cant say we want to compete in all comps and win cups and then buy 18yr who have never played in league.

You either say we are laughing off the next 5yrs with this plan and hope we don't get relegated. (Which they know fans will be like why am I paying 5k for this)
Or you be serious.

But people are still believing words as opposed to what is ACTUALLY being shown. And what has been happening for decades
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
To synthesise my point a bit…if Frank took over a Moyes team I think he’d have them higher in the league right now than we are. Be it West Ham or Everton, because his method and style in every respect wouldn’t be such a departure from what came before. I truly believe the fact that he is so different is part of the issue.

Vinai likes to talk about the fact that we have so much transition and it’s true. I don’t really believe that the lack of a Rebecca Caplethorn replacement until now is having any bearing on our on field results. But I do think sending a squad that was settled in one way of doing things into a completely different way, while the entire club is changing leaders in every direction, was an interesting and frankly needless choice.
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Essentially we seem to broadly agree there wasn’t a lot for Frank to build on in reality. Imo mainly because Frank didn’t get much of our attack from last season to work with, for various reasons. That he has a different playing style doesn’t help as the defence has a very different setup playing deeper.

It might be helpful to separate foundations from playing style (continuity). Foundations are things like set pieces, player familiarity, team mentality. Had we had a fit attack I think Frankmwoild have had some foundations to build on. As things panned out he had to start from scratch with the attack.

Re. Continuity of playing style, a club has to be able to evolve. Like now, you wouldn’t say we can only hire defence-first managers now because Frank was. With strong foundations I think you can potentially change playing style and be successful.
 
Kandi1977 said:
When I woke up today, I was hoping I'd just had a bad dream. But it seems we did actually lose to that shower of brick!
My word it's depressing watching this team now.
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I shut the laptop lid yesterday soon after the match and this is my first post since. That result was soul destroying for me because of the opposition. I know deep down that if we had a proper referee then we win that game. Another example of referee's just blatantly ignoring the laws of the game and just creating havoc. Howard Webb should be fired for the damage he is doing to the PL with the PGMOL officials.

Then once I get past the referee thing, I look at the Spurs thing and see a mess. The injuries are taking their toll and I felt for Ben Davies. I have a horrible feeling Gray will now be out and he was performing really well. Perhaps a little upside was Biss's performance. Generally, we have players like Spence, Muani and Xavi who need a big kick up the arse. Ideally you would drop them and let them think about their commitment on that pitch. It stinks. Perhaps we will when we get other players back.

Unfortunately, this project doesn't seem to be working with Frank at the helm. Let's face it, he is one unlucky guy as well. Refereeing, injuries, key goal chances missed etc. The guy can't catch a break. We should be at the stage where we've put some of the basic layers in place like the defensive process and our ability to work chances from wide areas. We should be adding the other bits that make us a powerful unit like creating threats through the middle of the pitch. That process just doesn't seem to be working. We may need to do a reset with a new guy very soon.
 
I see it as just pigeons coming home to roost. Natural consequences. Years and years of neglect of squad development and succession planning, of lurching from one playing style to another with no overarching plan have led us to this. It's been coming ever since Levy refused to take what he was told by Pochettino on board. Sack Frank, don't sack Frank, I don't think it really matters at this point. The squad needs more than just another sticking plaster; it needs rapid major surgery, and that's not happening. We probably won't go down this year, because like last season, there will probably be three basket-case sides with even worse numbers, but make no mistake, it is on the horizon, and the day will come unless there are deep changes throughout the club.
 
Mrs Vert said:
the next appointment could well be another extreme from Frank and we go again. You cant say we want to compete in all comps and win cups and then buy 18yr who have never played in league.

You either say we are laughing off the next 5yrs with this plan and hope we don't get relegated. (Which they know fans will be like why am I paying 5k for this)
Or you be serious.

But people are still believing words as opposed to what is ACTUALLY being shown. And what has been happening for decades
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I really really hope it is!!
 
SpurMeUp said:
I thought you said forwards score goals if you create chances for them? There were other chances but tel and obobert are forwards - it is their job to tuck those kinds of clear openings away.
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They weren't easy chances but then at the same time neither of them are top forwards so them not being able score from those chances isn't exactly shocking.
 
billyiddo said:
That looks like handball to me
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Looks incredibly soft to me tbh. Teh ball had the briesft birth of his hand. I get that by strict definitions it might be considered handball but I kind of find that ridiculous. There should be some degree of premeditation or even carelessness that is taken into account for handballs. It shouldn't imo be as cut and dry as if the ball touches your hand.
 
Bishop said:
Looks incredibly soft to me tbh. Teh ball had the briesft birth of his hand. I get that by strict definitions it might be considered handball but I kind of find that ridiculous. There should be some degree of premeditation or even carelessness that is taken into account for handballs. It shouldn't imo be as cut and dry as if the ball touches your hand.
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I think if you strike the ball with your hand, completely changing the direction of the ball, accidental or otherwise, when the opposition were in control of it then it's a clear pen tbh

I'd love to see some other handballs given this season in order to compare
 
Bishop said:
They weren't easy chances but then at the same time neither of them are top forwards so them not being able score from those chances isn't exactly shocking.
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There is not scoring from them, and then there’s missing the whole goal, and the shot turning into a cross 😂 it was sadly comic.
 
Bishop said:
Did you really expect either of them to score from those kinds of chances? Really?
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They could and should. If Frank had any chance they need to start tucking those uncontested shots in the box away - or at least get them on target. I don’t expect either to suddenly become ice cold finishers. But they need to to kick on. It’s the next step for them, and I think Frank has made both better players already. Sad that he won’t get to help them develop more. As he would be analysing what happened with them and working on their mind frame, focus and finishing technique. The number of forwards that have developed at Brentford over the years is testament to Frank’s ability to bring on these kinds of players and part of the reason he was hired.

The problem is having too many developing players starting and being wholly reliant on them. But I’ve personally enjoyed watching them come on this season. Finishing is their next challenge. Showing the cool to adjust their bodies and coldly finish into the corner of the net when there’s 60k baying fans and that rush of blood. Technically they are good players. It’s forming that cold mentality at the crucial moments that’s core.
 
Bishop said:
Looks incredibly soft to me tbh. Teh ball had the briesft birth of his hand. I get that by strict definitions it might be considered handball but I kind of find that ridiculous. There should be some degree of premeditation or even carelessness that is taken into account for handballs. It shouldn't imo be as cut and dry as if the ball touches your hand.
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It would indeed be a harsh penalty, the type never awarded to Tottenham, but we all know if that is at Anfield, Emirates or Etihad, harsh or not, its definitely given. We know it is
 
Bishop said:
Looks incredibly soft to me tbh. Teh ball had the briesft birth of his hand. I get that by strict definitions it might be considered handball but I kind of find that ridiculous. There should be some degree of premeditation or even carelessness that is taken into account for handballs. It shouldn't imo be as cut and dry as if the ball touches your hand.
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I don't think that's the point though. Even if you don't call it handball, you roll the video on and see a foul in the box. It's one or the other, unless of course you're PGMOL and you're either incompetent or corrupt. There has to be a penalty there.

Not the biggest issue with PGMOL yesterday though. I spotted way too many yellow card offences that were just ignored by the referee. If Gillett had used the laws of the game our numerical advantage would have probably wiped the floor of them. They certainly wouldn't be winning late corners in the way they won the game.
 
Muttley said:
I don't think that's the point though. Even if you don't call it handball, you roll the video on and see a foul in the box. It's one or the other, unless of course you're PGMOL and you're either incompetent or corrupt. There has to be a penalty there.

Not the biggest issue with PGMOL yesterday though. I spotted way too many yellow card offences that were just ignored by the referee. If Gillett had used the laws of the game our numerical advantage would have probably wiped the floor of them. They certainly wouldn't be winning late corners in the way they won the game.
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I thought the challenge on Xavi much more worthy of review and possibly a penalty. It seemed like for whatever reason they decided to only look at the handball which was soft imo and just totally ignored the challenge on Xavi.
 
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