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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa FC ***
- Thread starter markysimmo
- Start date
you need to give the right manager time, there is nothing that says Frank is that guy.
parj
David Bentley
I think it's safe to say both sides of the argument are blinkered.
I honestly think we have hit a point in the world where everything is given "equal weight", let's do the argument
- Frank has lost 11 of 31 games, and only won 11 at a 35% win rate, 1.32 PPG, puts him in ~13th place of Spurs PL managers.
- Our stats suck (i.e. data matches eye test), possession, xG, through balls (e.g. 20th in league), progressive passes
- 31 games in, he doesn't know his best 11, he seems to make the wrong player calls (Tel, Odobert, playing Xavi wide, all decisions that took way too long for him to fail into), he goes between over rotation and driving certain players into the ground (Richi injury was obviously coming, Porro is next by any reasonable perspective)
- The football sucks
- He does not understand Spurs, he does not understand he is expected to dominate certain games, he does not understand Spurs manager's job isn't to big up fudging Wolves, Sunderland, Brentford ..
- Hard to point to a single player that has improved under him (was to be one of his strong points)
- We have conceded 40 goals already (again, wasn't he supposed to be a defensive coach)
vs. the arguement to keep
- Managers need time (no further reasoning or any validation that outside of some outliers that this is a proven theory, as I've mentioned many times, Ange, Conte, Jose all had better first seasons than second)
- No one else is available or willing to come here or as a fanbase we don't know anyone (Lange & Vinai's job, and if they have already done the work and evaluated options, they should be on the way out)
The fact that he is still here is a massive indictment on the current club leadership.
parj
David Bentley
I agree with you. I don't think TF is the right person. And that's not based on anything other than attacking or pragmatic coaches don't work for us. It's balanced coaches who expect the team to defend and attack as a unit.
I also can't stand the fact that manager will sideline players saying they not good enough, then all of a sudden those players are needed and they do well. We waste all that time saying players aren't good enough but maybe if they were given a chance they would have been. Can't be we be patient with managers but not players. Son, Modric, Bale, Walker, Rose and many more were not good right away. They took patience. I remember Bale about to be sold but then we had so many injuries so he played against inter and the rest is history
MartyFunkhouser
Steve Sedgley
That statement that gets parroted over and over again is the biggest pile of BS I have read in all the arguments. Honestly its embarrassing given that a large portion of our own fanbase doesn't know what that is
SpurMeUp
Erik Thorstvedt
Lads it’s quite simple, we were a terrible side last season. We’ve added a couple of good players. Two from abroad who need time to settle. AND we lost our whole attack from last season.
I don’t think any manager who’s missing the first choice attack and walks into such an unstable club, would be doing much better. Whoever comes in you need to give them a bit of time to bed players, get players back and build a foundation.
Results are everything. The only tonic will be winning. But we’re missing so many players. Weak in midfield and a second string in attack. That the second string are showing some signs of improvement is some encouragement at least. Tel was woeful last season, this season has started to look like a real player. Odobert also looked decent.
I don’t think any manager who’s missing the first choice attack and walks into such an unstable club, would be doing much better. Whoever comes in you need to give them a bit of time to bed players, get players back and build a foundation.
Results are everything. The only tonic will be winning. But we’re missing so many players. Weak in midfield and a second string in attack. That the second string are showing some signs of improvement is some encouragement at least. Tel was woeful last season, this season has started to look like a real player. Odobert also looked decent.
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
The only problem with your plan is we will just keep sacking guys and getting worse. Eventually if you just keep sacking managers and sacking them relatively early into their reigns you're going to get a churn of players and a jumbled squad that doesn't work for anyone.
Who is to say you're going to think the next guy is the right man. Especially when I'm sorry but you overrated this squad massively, you're going to think the next guy is failing too. So sack him also. Let's be honest you haven't rated any of our coaches since Poch and even Poch you felt fine sacking him at the time. So at what point do we keep a manager if none of the ones we've had have ever been good enough?
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
Not the current club leadership. Your man Levy hired him. Let's not forget.
Read what I said, the fact that he is still here .. anyone really think he would still be here with Levy?
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
Who knows, he kept Ange in his job last season when previously you would have expected him to get the boot.
Personally I think we've exhausted the list of prospective coaches and the job just isn't that desirable so Levy might well have kept him.
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
The whole problem with this club at the moment sprang from your man Levy constantly sacking coaches instead actually addressing the real problems and now you want to continue down that same path that took us from serious league contenders and a decent name in Europe to 17th in the league and to this struggle season.
What is it about this particular method of leadership that makes you think it's actually going to work? When it's clearly failed up till now?
DeanoAustin
Cecil Poynton
Tel has certainly started to look a player under Frank. I thought Odobert might go the way of Wayne Routledge but he looks like he’ll be more Aaron Lennon than Routledge recently. Richi has looked a better player under Frank. I’m intrigued to see where we go with Tel, Simons and Odobert as I think there is a lot of talent in that trio and they’re young.
I don’t really have faith in Frank to turn it around for a lot of the reasons you highlight but you have to be fair to the man and that, for me, includes giving him credit for the things he’s gotten right and giving him the season unless things get dangerously bad.
It’s frustrating, it’s soul crushing but perhaps, just maybe he proves us wrong and turns into the managerial Gareth Bale.
Mrs Vert
Milija Aleksic
We are ineffective for like 70min most games
Finney Is Back
Paul Stewart
Levy sacked managers that shouldn’t have been sacked because they did well. This manager is miles away from even doing adaquately.
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
Sure, but we are where we are because of that Levy behaviour. Continuing down that same path isn't going to lead anything better. At the end of the season if Frank has continued as he his now then sacking then makes sense. I just don't think doing it now leads to anything, but that's just my opinion.
Finney Is Back
Paul Stewart
Yes, don’t sack managers that are doing well for us or have a long track record of doing well for us. That shouldn’t extend to somebody who fits neither narrative,
I honestly think that we should stick with Frank but if we lose to West Ham I think he will really be on rocky ground not only with the fans but with the board as well. Look at Man U 7th in the table and 3 points off 4th and they have sacked Amorin. You can see that by appointing an interim manager until the end of the season they are hoping to snare a top manager after the world cup. There could be a few top candidates becoming available after the tournament is over. Who knows Ancellotti or Tuchel Pochettino, Deshamps , Ronald Koeman ,Roberto Martinez could all be available depending on how their side get on in the Tournament
Bishop
Jimmy McCormick
I just don't see the point in sacking a manager before a season is up. They'd have to virtually have us getting relegated (which may happen) before I felt that they didn't deserve at least a season. That's my stance whomever the coach is usually. Jose has been the only exception to this, but that was mainly because I just didn't think he was ever suited to role in the first place, even then I'm pretty sure I held until he got his first season out of the way. So I didn't want Conte, Nuno, Ange, Jol, Ramos or even AVB sacked in their first seasons. I would always give a coach at least a season.