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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa FC ***

thfcsteff said:
Exactly.
I appreciate the effort second-half, but it was essentially energised chaos-ball. With 10-15% more measure and quality, we’d have got way with showing up for one-half.
If we actually had any notion of pattern going forward beyond ‘heavy pressing for a bit’ I believe we can get more out of these players. Xavi is a real player for example, Muani too…
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I don't disagree except that it is difficult to achieve patterns of play imho if we can't execute simple passes. As I said before, a system manager like Ange couldn't do it because of the same problem. We need confidence and calm heads. But the front 3 of Tel, Odobert and Xavi behind Solanke or Muani is really exciting. We have to give it a chance to develop though.

The first thing for TF to establish is that we have to press our opponents as a team high up which we didnt do first half. That was really disappointing. We just stood off them like we were shocked. Hopefully we'll see more of this as well as some reinforcements in both FB areas and the strike force.
 
Robspur12 said:
I don't disagree except that it is difficult to achieve patterns of play imho if we can't execute simple passes. As I said before, a system manager like Ange couldn't do it because of the same problem. We need confidence and calm heads. But the front 3 of Tel, Odobert and Xavi behind Solanke or Muani is really exciting. We have to give it a chance to develop though.

The first thing for TF to establish is that we have to press our opponents as a team high up which we didnt do first half. That was really disappointing. We just stood off them like we were shocked. Hopefully we'll see more of this as well as some reinforcements in both FB areas and the strike force.
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I thought Odobert, Tel and Xavi were very good in the second half. Something can definitely happen if we give them a striker and runners.
 
parj said:
I didn't say at any point we looked like winning, or we had fantastic chances - in fact, I didnt even once say someone should have scored.

I said we looked the more threatening for those 20 mins. Playing the submissive way with no runners, and creating few chances, we were losing 2-0, getting on the front foot more and trying to keep the ball in more threatening spaces for us a goal, and that was without a real striker. That was with the crap attackers we have.

I believe there is a process to follow but you have to show intent to build on that process, not just say we haven't got good enough players so that's why we bend over and hope we nick a goal at set pieces.
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If you had said all of that without your whole "none of that in the first half" schtick then we wouldn't be having this conversation now, because I agree. I just disagree with the narrative you were trying to sell that we didn't do the same in the first half, when we clearly did just not as effectively.
 
Do you think Frank coaches the players to track runs into the box? If he does, he's not doing too well given how the first goal was conceded. He has two more games I reckon. A minimum of four points from the next two matches to save his job I reckon.
 
The highlight was Tel. In a couple of previous games there had been hints he was finding his feet. But what a mature performance today. Held the ball well. Battled. Used the ball well at his feet. Really wanted it. Showed his strength too.

Odobert we’d already seen hitting some form, and looked good. Xavi more to come you feel but the 3 are starting to look like they get each other. Some credit to Frank helping them gel.

The biggest annoyance were the fractional offsides. 3 or so nice moves where we were through on goal and the Muani one which if you’re Liverpool is ruled as level.

Something for Frank to build upon. Muani needs to come good too, and let Solanke ease back in.

I hope we can sign a midfielder. Would really help the heart of the team.
 
Bishop said:
Remind me of the chances we had, the saves their keeper made?
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If we actually had a pattern of attacking play which valued areas of the pitch other than wide, we’d be creating more with that second-half attitude. What we saw was reliance on individual moments coupled with energy. Imagine what Xavi, Tel, and Muani might be able to create if we actually had patterns.

People were claming off Richy for his marginal offsides a week or so ago, we saw Muani caught twice, imagine if we actually had proper patterns of play. I am not arguing that even greater quality would be highly beneficial, but unless you have Kane-levels, it wouldn’t make a huge amount of difference without management trusting the players to play an attacking style of football. A note also to those who are into the ‘focus on defense’…first-half, when we were sitting in this weird and weak ‘half-press’, we coughed up two soft goals. Second-half, when we decided to at least press properly and force the game, we gave up nothing much bar the chance Porro got off the line.
 
glasgowspur said:
I think you're being harsh there Steff, we tried to play football, the chaos came from them.
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You’re missing my point.
The players absolutely tried to play football.
There is no structure of how to play front-foot football which uses the middle of the pitch or the relationships some of these players have. We are simply relying on them to do it themselves.
And sorry, we did bring an element of energy and chaos. We mixed it.
 
Bishop said:
If you had said all of that without your whole "none of that in the first half" schtick then we wouldn't be having this conversation now, because I agree. I just disagree with the narrative you were trying to sell that we didn't do the same in the first half, when we clearly did just not as effectively.
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Well to me it's clear we didn't but let's agree to disagree
 
thfcsteff said:
You’re missing my point.
The players absolutely tried to play football.
There is no structure of how to play front-foot football which uses the middle of the pitch or the relationships some of these players have. We are simply relying on them to do it themselves.
And sorry, we did bring an element of energy and chaos. We mixed it.
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This i agree with. I feel Xavi, Tel and Odobert went off script a little, which I think is right, to help us get the ball into better spaces. But there is an issue with the off the ball runs from supporting players
 
Robspur12 said:
I don't disagree except that it is difficult to achieve patterns of play imho if we can't execute simple passes. As I said before, a system manager like Ange couldn't do it because of the same problem. We need confidence and calm heads. But the front 3 of Tel, Odobert and Xavi behind Solanke or Muani is really exciting. We have to give it a chance to develop though.

The first thing for TF to establish is that we have to press our opponents as a team high up which we didnt do first half. That was really disappointing. We just stood off them like we were shocked. Hopefully we'll see more of this as well as some reinforcements in both FB areas and the strike force.
Click to expand...

I agree with much here.

That first-half is more of what I think is a major element hamstringing this side. On the one hand you have a home crowd who want an uptempo display. Then we have a system which ended up leaving us in the middle of nowhere. Soft mid-press which ended up giving vast amounts of space to Villa. No way of progressing the ball creatively beyond the wide areas; the sight of Xavi hugging the left-touchline at times was sad.

Second-half we saw the pressing being effective. I can only hope that Frank devises systems and patterns which make better use of the talent of the players we have. Xavi has great skill and drive, there’s a real player in Tel, Odobert could be much better too and he’s decent now. We need to start playing to their strengths rather than trying to squeeze them into this whatever it is TF wants to do. That front four could be great, yes, but we still need to start devising ways/making signings which will help us use the middle to progress the ball to them.
 
thfcsteff said:
If we actually had a pattern of attacking play which valued areas of the pitch other than wide, we’d be creating more with that second-half attitude. What we saw was reliance on individual moments coupled with energy. Imagine what Xavi, Tel, and Muani might be able to create if we actually had patterns.

People were claming off Richy for his marginal offsides a week or so ago, we saw Muani caught twice, imagine if we actually had proper patterns of play. I am not arguing that even greater quality would be highly beneficial, but unless you have Kane-levels, it wouldn’t make a huge amount of difference without management trusting the players to play an attacking style of football. A note also to those who are into the ‘focus on defense’…first-half, when we were sitting in this weird and weak ‘half-press’, we coughed up two soft goals. Second-half, when we decided to at least press properly and force the game, we gave up nothing much bar the chance Porro got off the line.
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The better Teams defend the centre very well. It's not that we don't have patterns of play in the middle it's just our final ball is not good enough to exploit any weaknesses. You can see it when we get into a position centrally to shoot we struggle to get that shot off or to play that killer pass instead we keep passing from side to side until the chance peters out.

Xavi is the key to unlock the spaces in front of goal. And now he has these quick, young players around him, hopefully we will see this area of the game improve.
 
Robspur12 said:
The better Teams defend the centre very well. It's not that we don't have patterns of play in the middle it's just our final ball is not good enough to exploit any weaknesses. You can see it when we get into a position centrally to shoot we struggle to get that shot off or to play that killer pass instead we keep passing from side to side.

Xavi is the key to unlock the spaces in front of goal. And now he has these quick, young players around him, hopefully we will see this area of the game improve.
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The thing is, when we pick the ball up deep, we rarely, rarely look to use the middle in any sense. We either go for sweeping crossfield switch, a lateral carry and release to the wide areas, or we go long front to back and try to hit deeper pockets in behind and wide. I’m not imagining it mate. I understand the argument that we don’t have a fit Maddison or Deki, and that TF wanted MGW; but the latter is as much a runner and driver as elite passer. I wonder why we didn’t look for more passing talent in the summer? I can only conclude the manager didn’t want that???
 
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