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Thomas Frank - Head Coach

harr1984 said:
Not that it bothered me in the slightest, but Frank did have a pop at the fans in one of his pressers at some point this season IIRC there was a bit of fuss made by some about it.....
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lucky i am not the coach i would have lost my mind numerous times & definitely given some back followed by being sacked no doubt
 
kb 1984 said:
Nope give Frank the season then make an informed decision. who exactly are we going to get that is not a stop gap
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Agree, but sadly we are in that death spiral where everything is toxic and usually there's only one person who pays the price for it. We've just lost to Bournemouth who hadn't won in 10 games or so, next we play West Ham at home who haven't won in 10 games - If he doesn't win that one, I think the pressure is going to tell and he will likely be gone....
 
harr1984 said:
Agree, but sadly we are in that death spiral where everything is toxic and usually there's only one person who pays the price for it. We've just lost to Bournemouth who hadn't won in 10 games or so, next we play West Ham at home who haven't won in 10 games - If he doesn't win that one, I think the pressure is going to tell and he will likely be gone....
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Yep sadly i agree but it feels like we are going around in circles at what point do we say enough & actually stick with someone. Burkinshaw was relegated we stuck by him & look what happened
 
fernadez said:
We have a good player, buy his back up, back up becomes the starter, then buy another back up who becomes the starter.

10 years later you have a mix of some potentially good players mixed in with some who were purely back ups.

How to worsen squad levels 101
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unless you are city, utd or Chelsea that usually how most clubs operate. unfortunately we don't have the money to have 2 world class players for each position
 
fernadez said:
We have a good player, buy his back up, back up becomes the starter, then buy another back up who becomes the starter.

10 years later you have a mix of some potentially good players mixed in with some who were purely back ups.

How to worsen squad levels 101
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The problem is not that you buy a backup who becomes the starter... it's the quality of the replacement. Brighton sold Caicedo and bought Baleba... no difference. And that's just one example. But they have a PROPER recruitment - not our incompetent bunch that we are lumped with
 
veryoldspur said:
No I wasn't an Ange fan, and believe he should have gone at the end of the first season. The fact is we are sitting 14th with a squad that is probably top 6, and there is only one reason for that. He attacks the fans, and now drinks out of Arsenal branded cups. He can set up the team to draw, but when he attempts to actually win a game we lose. His level was Brentford, and that's where he should be. I wasn't Frank out until the Bournemouth game, but I believe he can actually get us relegated. West Ham will be a 6 pointer now

As far as a replacement, I certainly don't want Poch, so it's down to the club to find someone decent, who I don't know
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Disagree that the squad is top 6. Its top half at best.
 
harr1984 said:
Agree, but sadly we are in that death spiral where everything is toxic and usually there's only one person who pays the price for it. We've just lost to Bournemouth who hadn't won in 10 games or so, next we play West Ham at home who haven't won in 10 games - If he doesn't win that one, I think the pressure is going to tell and he will likely be gone....
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He’s 100% gone if we lose to West Ham after losing to Bournemouth. I think even an unsatisfying/unconvincing draw could cost him.
 
thfcsteff said:
BTW, I think the whole coffee cup fiasco stinks of a stitch up.
I find it impossible to believe that some member of our staff would not have spotted that within 30 seconds. I think someone's been dirty there; sort of whiffs of a tabloidy stitch up from the old days.
Hitting Frank with that stuff is actually pathetic IMO.
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Not sure about that, on a sky manager chat over the tactics table there was a red team and a blue team, he said we're the red team, I thought either you don't get it or you have an impish sense of humour and really don't get it. I think it's the latter, and not a good sign.
 
thfcsteff said:
BTW, I think the whole coffee cup fiasco stinks of a stitch up.
I find it impossible to believe that some member of our staff would not have spotted that within 30 seconds. I think someone's been dirty there; sort of whiffs of a tabloidy stitch up from the old days.
Hitting Frank with that stuff is actually pathetic IMO.
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I'm not one for conspiracies and could totally by the "I didn't even look" explanation, but is he just picking up random cups and drinking from them?? Seems even weirder than the gum chewing for me...

(I should also say......I really don't see the cup thing as an issue at all and agree it's likely just people causing more mischief.)
 
DubaiSpur said:
I'm here mate, though I mainly lurk these days.

Fact is, Frank isn't the problem. Give him enough time and he'll look better, only because nearly any coach looks better once he's given time. And he's a good bloke - humble and truthful, which always counts for something in my book.

Whether his system has much upside beyond, say, 10th-12th every year - that's still to be decided, given his high water-mark at Brentford was finishing midtable.

But ultimately, keep Frank or sack Frank, neither will really fix the hole we're in. Only money can fix that - moving on poor players and buying good ones, in positions that make sense, to keep the squad constantly improving, getting better.

What has happened at Spurs has been the opposite - starting from the high water-mark in 2017, our approach has been to consistently buy backups and downgrades to the players we used to have, and then watch as those players became starters and the older, better players left.

Walker -> Aurier -> Doherty -> Porro,
Kane -> Richy,
Son-> Tel/Odobert,
Eriksen -> Lo Celso -> Maddison -> now Simons,
Dembele->Sissoko/Winks-> Ndombele -> Hojbjerg -> Bentancur/Palhinha,
Lloris -> Vicario,

...and so on.

In each case, a better player was replaced by a worse one, who ended up becoming our starter. It's rare a player now even remotely compares to the Poch team of 16-17 - not even a decade ago. Because of the above cycle.

Take Udogie as an example. He's a sicknote, and on/off when he does play. It's clear we need a second left-back to rotate with him, possibly even replace him.

But those players cost money and wages - first-team left backs won't leave their clubs to compete with Udogie without being paid, and we don't pay wages to get them.

So we settle on instead buying a backup to plug the gap when he's out, who obviously won't be as good, but (typically) whom we hope can come good over time - so, a youngster. This window's version seems to be that Brazilian kid Souza. When he's put in, standards will inevitably fall, just because he's raw and untested. And thus the standards are lowered to a new baseline, and the cycle begins again.

Whereas, imagine if we went and got a starter to challenge Udogie instead - if Udogie can't cut it, he drops to the bench, simple as. A top-class left-back.

The opposite happens. Standards rise. Everyone around the club gets a lift - players know they have to perform or lose their place. Managers have options to pick. Suddenly the club looks ambitious again.

Do this enough times and you have a virtuous cycle. No player can take his place for granted, the squad is full of talent, and basically any manager can succeed - this is exactly what happened at Woolwich, and they're going to win the league because of it.

Until I see us engaging in that sort of behaviour, I don't expect anything to change mate. And so I don't get annoyed about it any more - it's plain as day to see our direction, and until it changes, I won't let my mental health be destroyed by agonizing over it. These days it hurts a little less when we lose than it used to, and that's worth something. To me, at least.
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Fantastic post.
 
TF is not responsible for the lack of quality and depth in the squad. As the saying goes, you cannot make a silk purse out of sow's ears.

Long term injuries to our top players doesn't help but of the rest too many need upgrading - Vicario, Porro, Bentancur, Bissouma, Simons, Odobert, Richarlison, Kolo Muani to name the more obvious ones. Not sure I have confidence in the club to find adequate replacements though, but even if they do, it's likely to take a couple of seasons minimum.
 
glasgowspur said:
Not sure about that, on a sky manager chat over the tactics table there was a red team and a blue team, he said we're the red team, I thought either you don't get it or you have an impish sense of humour and really don't get it. I think it's the latter, and not a good sign.
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I think it’s madness to get upset about either of those things.

Completely illogical.
 
thfcsteff said:
BTW, I think the whole coffee cup fiasco stinks of a stitch up.
I find it impossible to believe that some member of our staff would not have spotted that within 30 seconds. I think someone's been dirty there; sort of whiffs of a tabloidy stitch up from the old days.
Hitting Frank with that stuff is actually pathetic IMO.
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It’s annoying me this morning, macaronic fans jumping on it like it’s some massive tribal thing.

Probably find he was stood at the side of the pitch talking to people, had asked for a coffee and someone handed him a cup that he didn’t even look at before drinking and then just never realised. You would have to be simple to think it was a deliberate thing from him.

Unfortunately a number of fans are jumping up and down banging pans together and shouting about it this morning - stupid issue and there’s much bigger things to worry about.
 
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