Bedfordspurs
Paul Gascoigne
Arteta had the Covid years when they were most vocal and wanted him gone
But he also had a way of play from day one that you could see he was implementing
He could also point to a trophy
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*** Tottenham Hotspur Vs Forest *** OMT
- Thread starter Yiddo
- Start date
But he also had a way of play from day one that you could see he was implementing
He could also point to a trophy
MartyFunkhouser
Willie Hall
Hard agree
MartyFunkhouser
Willie Hall
Mate, this fanbase has been like it for years, this isn't a recent thing
Bedfordspurs
Paul Gascoigne
I know
And I genuinely don’t know where the hell the Ange thing post game from
But it showed buy and support very very quickly
Don’t know if you went to any of those games but it was great
They didn't really start to play with a noticeable identity until the season in which we pipped them to 4th - until that point it was 'trust the process' which as you mention probably only managed to get them through that period as there were no fans at games. What's interesting also is that the identity they built that season the more attacking/free flowing foitball has since been turned on it's head, with a focus on solidity in possession, less risks and set pieces.
Bedfordspurs
Paul Gascoigne
Their fans have said he had that from the start
I didn’t watch them as I was enjoying watching Tottenham
I do agree he has changed the team to a different way though
And I also don’t think he is a top manager but has had so much time and money he can’t fail
Frank with 6 years and over a billion would assemble a very very effective side too
The point @MartyFunkhouser was making was in relation to year one support, you disagreed that he got that (or you misread what was being said) which i object to. Support absoloutely did drop of during the second season though that is obviously true, and with good reason.
Frank conversely has not had year one support, he hasn't even had half-year-one support. I do not buy the argument that support for a new manager should be conditional the way it is being framed "I don’t see a plan/I don't like the style of football/etc etc" you either give a new manager time & patience to bed in or you don't.
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Agree to disagree
MartyFunkhouser
Willie Hall
Massive Arteta out movement if I remember from the Amazon doc
Yeah but despite wanting him out they could all see what he was trying to achieve - makes sense
Bedfordspurs
Paul Gascoigne
Massive
They wanted him gone
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
I was just responding to your assertion that this is "Frank is now picking up the pieces of all our attack having been replaced over the summer (much like @Bedfordspurs is suggesting!) bar Johnson who’s been upgraded" because for me, that doesn't actually bear out.
Opinions as to why the performances are so bad are opinions, right? Mine have been expressed enough I think. What I would say is that your attack cannot function fluidly and effectively without coherent strategies to feed it.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
I think the biggest difference between the two is that with Postecoglu, we knew early what he was setting us up to do and he confirmed that during the Chelsea home match. Much like Poch's infamous home tie against Bayern back in 2019 (the 7-2 defeat) much has been lost in the details of each game. Against Chelsea, Dier smashed home what would've been a brilliant equaliser in the 90th minute only for it to be VAR's off for a phantom toenail or the like. We then conceded two goals in added time. The actual performance was incredibly brave. Against Bayern we absolutely battered them first-half and failed to taken chances, but make no mistake, we played some excellent football. The second 45? We got lost and every single thing they touched went in. But I knew he was done that night; I could hear the chatter in the streets as everyone was saying how 'he'd been losing it for a while' etc. Narratives and all that.
Again, are people trusting Frank to find a style of football we all want as Spurs supporters, or are they trusting Frank to find a way to win using 'Frankball' a la Brentford in the PL but better? That (for me anyway) remains the only questions.
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
This both true and sad.
We're at a point where the common sense you speak of here is up against the actual type and level of performance/style the manager is producing/having produced.
And I want to be patient, but at the same time, not if it means eventually getting a 'better' version of Frankball because that is both not good enough on the eye and it won't IMO achieve major titles.
A really tricky and sad inflection point...
SpurMeUp
Tommy Harmer
Why so coy? Is it a hangover of not wanting Ange sacked (definite correlation of those bemoaning Frank who were pro-Postecoglou). A kind of see I told you so!
Or are you hedging your bets, wanting to stake a claim so when things go wrong you were ahead of the curve
Isn’t it simpler just to back the manager and get behind him until the end of the season and reappraise then? Or at least give him half a season before condemning.
mephitis
Terry Fenwick
thfcsteff
Teddy Sheringham
Why so coy? Is it a hangover of not wanting Ange sacked (definite correlation of those bemoaning Frank who were pro-Postecoglou). A kind of see I told you so!
Or are you hedging your bets, wanting to stake a claim so when things go wrong you were ahead of the curve
Isn’t it simpler just to back the manager and get behind him until the end of the season and reappraise then? Or at least give him half a season before condemning.
Oh please. 'Coy'?
You either don't read what I write or only see what you want (I suspect the latter but obviously don't know).
I will try again (I mean, I've said this consistently since early season).
I want the manager to get time because its the right thing to do.
I want to know why the manager is getting my time and patience.
Is it because I like the football is is producing/setting us up to play?
Or is it because I believe in the principle of giving someone time?
I want to give the manager time if he is producing the type of football I think this club should play.
I am trying to be patient but am seeing no evidence whatsoever that he will do the above, with a fit Deki, Maddison, even Lionel Messi signing! I am not seeing systems which tell me he is interested in that style.
Regarding Ange being sacked, I said for several weeks before thr Europa League Final I knew he wasn't going to be here, so regardless of any thoughts I may/may not have had, I knew he was not an option. Frank remains the best choice we could've made for the club we are this past summer, the question was always whether he could develop into a next-level coach or if he would simply just have the tools to be a better version of what he is.
BTW, things are already going wrong.
You seem chained to thoughts like 'I told you so' and 'wanting to stake a claim'.
Let me be clear.
I don't give a flying fudge about ANY of that nonsense.
The fact remains that if Thomas Frank develops a style of play I enjoy and we are successful, I'd be delighted to be wrong. If it doesn't happen, the only 'losers' are me, you, and every single supporters...
tommysvr
Steve Carr
I think a big reason Frank is getting this much grief this early is because many (not all, many) put the blame at Ange's feet. HE was the sole problem, and simply replacing him would have us back playing well. Frank is an experienced Premier League manager and he will simply right what the clueless Aussie clam was doing wrong.
You also have the group who hated Ange personally, so they'll go through whatever they have to with Frank and still come out the other side backing him (and blaming Ange for injuries that happened weeks and months after he left!!!)
IulianSteaua
Kasey Keller
I think most feared that Kane leaving would make us a midfield team. The first year without Kane we finished 5th, narrowly missing out on 4th. So with some signings people thought that we would continue our usual push for 4th. So next year to finish 17th it had to be the coach, since we did well without Kane the first season. We showed we had a decent team again by winning the EL. Now, with the coach gone and some good signings in the summer imo, people hoped we would return to hunting a UCL spot. On paper we have some good players that cost a lot of money. Most playing in big national teams. I think that puts it more on the coach that he should be able to manoeuvre around and get the most out of a good squad.
I hate this kind of gonads. There are posters here (happily admit not me) who were really pleased to have got Frank on board and were excited. But have since been critical of Frank because it has been all in all a painful watch.Why so coy? Is it a hangover of not wanting Ange sacked (definite correlation of those bemoaning Frank who were pro-Postecoglou). A kind of see I told you so!
Or are you hedging your bets, wanting to stake a claim so when things go wrong you were ahead of the curve
Isn’t it simpler just to back the manager and get behind him until the end of the season and reappraise then? Or at least give him half a season before condemning.
It's not all about Ange, most who liked him accepted it best he part ways. When 75% of matches to date have been poor football, there is more to it than bloody Ange. You're the one trying to attribute injuries players are picking up under Frank to the previous guy FFS....